It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Florida School Security Officer Tasers 11-Year-Old Girl

page: 2
3
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
No one can convince me that it was neccasary to use a tazer gun to get her under control.


The girl is a beast of an 11 year old!

Yesterday's main event!

In the red corner, we have deputy Donna Hudepohl. Out of Orange County Florida, with a height of (Ok, I couldn't actually find anything about her height and weight!) but I did come across this:

www.cfnews13.com...



Authorities described the 11-year-old girl is being 5 feet 5 inches tall, weighing 150 pounds, which is the same size as Hudepohl.

Officials are characterizing the situation as one female defending herself against another female of similar size and strength, and not a grown adult tasering an 11-year-old girl.


However, the Orlando Sentinel describes the girl as 170 pounds.

www.orlandosentinel.com...

So... do 11 year olds who are as large as, or larger, than adults get criminal immunity?

It seems like that's what you are suggesting.




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by Damocles
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 



you read the article right?

the officer was being punched and may have a broken nose...

ok so leave the taser on the belt...how much force is "ok" to restrain a violent 11yo? its not like you can pick her up by the scruff like a momma cat would...you'd have to put your hands on her.

then as she resists, how much force is ok to hold her? throw her down and cuff her like you would an adult? knee in between the shoulder blades? face in the tiles? say the officer had just grabbed her wrist to restrain her and the girl starts thrashing and twists then "snap" her arms broke. got lawsuit? seriously how much force is ok if a taser isnt?

tasers hurt like hell but guess what...when the discharge is over its done with. unless the girl had one of those wierd undiagnosed heart conditions and it caused an arythmia....she's going to be just fine.

maybe a baton would have been better? go all LAPD on her?

oh how bout a net? wouldnt that have been keen?

i dont care if she's 11 or 90...she tried to push a classmate INTO A BUSY STREET!!!

but we overlook that cuz she an 11yo girl who THEN tried to throw a CHAIR at a teacher, who wouldnt restrain her for fear of their job...

then she breaks an officers nose who was TRYING to restrain her without using excessive force.

ever had your nose broke? kind of limits your options in a hurry. what...back off and let the girl hurt anyone else in the room?

no, im sorry to say this but the officer made the right call. had she been an adult and had done the same thing if the officer felt in danger she'd have been within her rights to cap the offender.

gee, compared to that taser doesnt look all that bad now does it?



Yes I read the article.

Like I said, The girl WAS out of control, but if this officer really cant control a little girl with less force than a tazer gun then they really should reconsider their choice of careers.

I do believe force was neccasary, I also believe that using a 50,000 volt tazer gun on an 11 year old girl qualifies as excessive force.

By the way you are not required to cause some one pain or to hurt someone in order to use force...

I used to work in security, and we used what was called "non violent crisis intervention".I could have gotten this girl under control with out hurting her and with out getting myself hurt. This officer could have done the same. Perhaps some NVCI training should be called for...

[edit on 28-3-2008 by gimme_some_truth]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:58 PM
link   
Wow, full range of replies here.

My take: The officer probably tried and failed to restrain this 11 year old. I know I was pretty squirrely as an 11 year old and I doubt one person could have restrained me effectively-had I decided to make an a$$ of myself.

The taser is probably the least of her worries. Mom will smell a lawsuit, get rich quick and 11 year old daughter will bounce from school to school, while security officer can't get another job.

Justice? Probably not. But that's the way our system works now.

Sure at 11 years old the girl isn't legally responsible for her actions, but if she's not, then who is?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:58 PM
link   
reply to post by cavscout
 



YES i do...and if it was you and you tried to restrain her...after having your nose broken..and you had wrenched her arm and it broke cuz im guessing that youre probably not a tiny guy what would be the better solution?

a shock or a broken arm?

when adult puts their hands on a child who is not theirs and is combative theres the chance the child will be injured.

theres less chance of injury from a taser and you people KNOW THIS

why am i the villian here for thinking that using a taser was more appropriate than manhandling a small child who could have been injured far worse from that?

the officer TRIED to restrain her first if you read the article...she got her nose broken (possibly i guess) for her efforts....what next?

last time. 11yo girl, you grab her wrist or something to restrain her. you hold tight..she jerks and twists and next thing you know somthing is damaged....gee what was the better solution?



edit to add: 5'5 150-170lbs. i take back everything i said about this "little child" who is bigger than my wife. wow my bad....

[edit on 28-3-2008 by Damocles]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mr. Ree

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
No one can convince me that it was neccasary to use a tazer gun to get her under control.


The girl is a beast of an 11 year old!

Yesterday's main event!

In the red corner, we have deputy Donna Hudepohl. Out of Orange County Florida, with a height of (Ok, I couldn't actually find anything about her height and weight!) but I did come across this:

www.cfnews13.com...



Authorities described the 11-year-old girl is being 5 feet 5 inches tall, weighing 150 pounds, which is the same size as Hudepohl.

Officials are characterizing the situation as one female defending herself against another female of similar size and strength, and not a grown adult tasering an 11-year-old girl.


However, the Orlando Sentinel describes the girl as 170 pounds.

www.orlandosentinel.com...

So... do 11 year olds who are as large as, or larger, than adults get criminal immunity?

It seems like that's what you are suggesting.


That is not what I am suggesting. Like I said. The girl WAS wrong, she WAS out of control. My point is there are better ways to handle situations such as this. Non violent intervention. see my previous post for details.


[edit on 28-3-2008 by gimme_some_truth]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:03 PM
link   
You know, isnt it strange that we dont hear any of this stuff going on in PRIVATE schools? My guess is they dont want to pick on the "wrong" kid and have a huge law suit on their hands.
Instead they pick on regular school kids whose parents they know dont have the funds or maybe even the brains to call an attorney.

As far as i'm concerned if the kid weighed in at 300 lbs and looked like a sumo wrestler, the CHILD IS STILL A CHILD - with a mentality of an 11 year old.

I'm sure they wouldnt hesitate to taser a severely handicapped kid in a wheel chair either.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:04 PM
link   
reply to post by MegaCurious
 


if a child of 11 acts like this, that means something is seriously wrong at home. The child is learning what she is living, and from personal experience, any measure of physical punishment will only serve to encourage her. She needs to be in an environment where her actions do not phase anyone. Only then will she begin to learn new methods of expression. I myself did everything this child did, but at an earlier age. It wasn't until my alcoholic father was removed from the home that I understood justice and changed.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:04 PM
link   
The end justifies the means. A criminally insane 11 yr old got juiced after most probably breaking the nose of security after almost 'KILLING' a classmate. No tears.
I recently read a story in the cleveland.com forum of a cleveland public school teacher who is also a former Nam vet. He said he felt safer in Nam than teaching today. It really has gotten that bad.

[edit on 28-3-2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 28-3-2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:05 PM
link   
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


well by all means...as it appears as im the pariah here...educate me.

you have an apparently large 11yo who just tried to do harm to a classmate and a teacher. you roll up on scene. how you going to convince this combative girl to just go with you down to juvie? she'd already shown no regard for her teachers and was going to do just whatever the hell she wanted anyway....

please...how are you going to handle this?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by Damocles
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


well by all means...as it appears as im the pariah here...educate me.

you have an apparently large 11yo who just tried to do harm to a classmate and a teacher. you roll up on scene. how you going to convince this combative girl to just go with you down to juvie? she'd already shown no regard for her teachers and was going to do just whatever the hell she wanted anyway....

please...how are you going to handle this?


Non violent crisis intervention does not mean simply talking to them. It means putting your self in control of the situation before things get to bad. for example, Lets say some one comes up to me and tries to kick me. If they kick with there right leg I bend my left leg up and block. if the kick with the left leg I bend my right leg up and block. If they try to punch you, you block basically in a similar fasion. ok now say you are grabbing and pulling my hair I would actually grab your hand and push it down onto my head as hard as i can. Because your hand is already balled up it hurts there fingers enough that they will let go. If the are trying to choke me I throw my arms up in between theres and I spin around. They will lose there grip. I know it doesnt sound very effective but It does keep you from getting hurt. one of the more effective ways to get them under control ( in my opinion) involves grabbing the wrist of the person when they swing a punch at you, then you put your other hand on the back of there neck and push down. This doesnt hurt them, it gets them in a possition where they cant try to hurt you any more though. It also puts them in a position that allows you to detain them safely until the proper authority arrives. I hope this answers your question, and I apologize if this seems jumbled up, I am running on about 2 and half hours of sleep.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

That is not what I am suggesting. Like I said. The girl WAS wrong, she WAS out of control. My point is there are better ways to handle situations such as this. Non violent intervention. see my previous post for details.


[edit on 28-3-2008 by gimme_some_truth]


The officer did try to use non violent intervention, both before and after she was given a bloody nose.

It wasn't working - sorry to burst your bubble!


In certain cases, there are better ways to handle situations than by using non violent intervention.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:26 PM
link   
GST in a perfect world I couldn't agree with you more. Use a little jujistu and grab and find a nice pain pressure point and march the little urchin down the hall going ow ow ow. Apparently in this situation the guard either had not the luxury or ability to do so. Was she taken into custody without the use of a t bar. Yes. End of story.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:32 PM
link   
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


yeah all basic self defense moves.

so its ok to inflict a "little" pain then?

they go to punch you do your fancy bruce lee move and they over balance and crack their head on the floor

woops

you just went from controlling the situation to "plaintif"

and had said child gotten a lucky shot and broken your nose...yer in pain and can barely see.

what then mr lee?

dont know about you but im going to the next tool in my kit

arent you glad she had a taser and not just an asp?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mr. Ree

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

That is not what I am suggesting. Like I said. The girl WAS wrong, she WAS out of control. My point is there are better ways to handle situations such as this. Non violent intervention. see my previous post for details.


[edit on 28-3-2008 by gimme_some_truth]


The officer did try to use non violent intervention, both before and after she was given a bloody nose.

It wasn't working - sorry to burst your bubble!


In certain cases, there are better ways to handle situations than by using non violent intervention.




NVCI DOES work when used correctly. No bubble was burst so no need to apoligise. This merely brings me back to my original point. .If this officer can not safely control a persons behavior with out hurting themselves or someone else, than they need to look for a new career.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by dgtempe
You know, isnt it strange that we dont hear any of this stuff going on in PRIVATE schools? My guess is they dont want to pick on the "wrong" kid and have a huge law suit on their hands.


No, it's more that private schools don't have kids from disfunctional families, ghettos, and trailer parks.



Instead they pick on regular school kids whose parents they know dont have the funds or maybe even the brains to call an attorney.


No, instead they pick on children who attempt to kill their classmates by shoving them into a busy street, throw chairs and desks around the classroom, spit at teachers, and give resource officers bloody noses.



As far as i'm concerned if the kid weighed in at 300 lbs and looked like a sumo wrestler, the CHILD IS STILL A CHILD - with a mentality of an 11 year old.


"An 11 year old pleaded guilty today in New Jersey to kidnapping and killing a toddler when he was 10. Aaron Kean was not charged as an adult. The Court sentenced him to 18 years in the custody of the juvenile justice system."

www.talkleft.com...

Hey! Get him out of there! He's just a CHILD!!!!!



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Damocles
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


yeah all basic self defense moves.

so its ok to inflict a "little" pain then?

they go to punch you do your fancy bruce lee move and they over balance and crack their head on the floor

woops

you just went from controlling the situation to "plaintif"

and had said child gotten a lucky shot and broken your nose...yer in pain and can barely see.

what then mr lee?

dont know about you but im going to the next tool in my kit

arent you glad she had a taser and not just an asp?

I said nothing about throwing anyone on the floor. I meant to say that you would hold one there head down. If done correctly (this officer did not use NVCI correctly) It will not hurt them.

The bottome line is I am stricly against the use of tazer guns. I simply dont like it. No one can convince me that they are a good thing. Im too damn stubborn


[edit on 28-3-2008 by gimme_some_truth]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

NVCI DOES work when used correctly. No bubble was burst so no need to apoligise. This merely brings me back to my original point. .If this officer can not safely control a persons behavior with out hurting themselves or someone else, than they need to look for a new career.


I like how you imply that any cop in question should somehow have the ability to control any person they encounter, no matter the situation.

It's a very naive ideal.

If more politicians thought like you, we'll all soon be chipped, and cops will have the power to turn us off thereby living up to your vision.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 09:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mr. Ree

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

NVCI DOES work when used correctly. No bubble was burst so no need to apoligise. This merely brings me back to my original point. .If this officer can not safely control a persons behavior with out hurting themselves or someone else, than they need to look for a new career.


I like how you imply that any cop in question should somehow have the ability to control any person they encounter, no matter the situation.

It's a very naive ideal.

If more politicians thought like you, we'll all soon be chipped, and cops will have the power to turn us off thereby living up to your vision.


When did I say that EVERY officer should be able to control ANY person no matter what? Im not talking about ANY person, Im talking about a single situation in wich a full grown person resorted to using a 50,000 volt taser gun on an 11 year old child. Please becareful not to twist my words around


My point is I do not believe it is ok to tazer some one when it really is possible to control them in a less violent way. That is my basic point. This officer obviously couldnt control this child, they really need to look for a new job. I think its a sad thing when people think it is acceptable to use this type of force in a situation that could have gone down alot better had it been handled more smoothly. by the person of authority. If it is niave to think that its not neccasary to use 50,000 volts in order to gain control of a situation like this then so be it. I guess that makes me niave.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 09:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
I said nothing about throwing anyone on the floor. I meant to say that you would hold one there head down. If done correctly (this officer did not use NVCI correctly) It will not hurt them.

The bottome line is I am stricly against the use of tazer guns. I simply dont like it. No one can convince me that they are a good thing. Im too damn stubborn


[edit on 28-3-2008 by gimme_some_truth]


yes, i know what you said.

i also know what i typed.

i was throwing out a "what if"

"what if" you did this move with the intent of simply "forcing their head down" and the child then overbalanced and went tumbling headlong to the floor with at least one of the arms they'd normally use to catch themselves firmly in your grasp?

not something you envision cuz thats not doing it correctly?

then as i see it youve either never had to use these techniques a lot in the field against opponents intent on doing you harm or your instructor sucked.

sorry but in any hand to hand engangement (and kid yourself all you want...you ARE describing martial arts in one fashion or another) theres a "what if" factor

NOTHING is the same with a real opponent as it is in training and sparing

YOU may know these moves in your sleep but saddly your opponent may not and when you pull their arm one way and move their head another they may not keep their feet either by accident or some attempt to try to break your hold and suddenly skull meets floor

or they try to twist out of it and their arm breaks (we're talking kids here afterall, dont think it can happen? spend a night observing a busy ER in a city over 500,000)

no one said YOU had to approve of a taser but you have to admit that maybe not everyone has your stealth ninja moves either. each dept may have their own variations on hand to hand combat

i know one officer who studied hapkido with his pd
another studied ninjitsu
still another learned jiu juitsu

so, THIS officer got her nose broke and decided that instead of using mace, her baton or god forbid her sidearm....she was going to see a fast resolution to the situation so that she could regain control in the manner LEAST likely to harm the child more than a few seconds.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 09:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Mr. Ree
 

Kids in public schools come from all walks of life. I went to a fancy pants school system in Massachusetts where everyone was upper middle class.
I dont know why you get the idea that only trailer park trash goes to public schools. Or ghetto people.
That tells me how much you know in this area.



BTW, your little sample was of a BRUTAL MURDER which is not in anyway close to this.


What are you saying, today you break a nose most likely by accident and you get tasered because tomorrow you will kill, guaranteed???





top topics



 
3
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join