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Lawsuit: Huge Atom Smasher Could Destroy World

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posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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Lawsuit: Huge Atom Smasher Could Destroy World


www.foxnews.com

Stop the scientists before they destroy us all!

That's what a Hawaii man with a background in nuclear physics is asking a court to do.

A federal lawsuit has been filed seeking to stop work on the Large Hadron Collider, a gigantic atom smasher on the Franco-Swiss border that's set to start operations in May.

LHC could create a rapidly expanding black hole that could consume the entire planet.




(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.lhcdefense.org




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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This is the definition of cutting edge physics. I cant begin to comprehend the math of it all. I worry that this magnificent experiment is something like, lets jump in front of traffic and see if we can get out of the way. Or... how close can we get to a meltdown without catastrophe.

What freaks me out the most is that we want to create particles and processes which we have NO IDEA of the outcome.

Seems far too risky to me to risk the entire planet. Thoughts?


www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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This has been discussed many times on ATS, but that is ok because this kind of thread about this collided should not go away until the whole thing has been stopped and discussed more at a conference set up to discuss the possibilities of danger to the planet.

There are to many mad scientists involved to just ignore the dangers, every danger is of course speculation, but every scientist agrees that these dangers are a real possibility, The creation of mini black holes sounds like nothing to worry about esp when they say they will dissolve, but what if a single one gets away from them? just one, we are all one for.

The theor goes if one black hole fails to dissolve, then it will sink towards the center of the earth, and sit there until it starts to ingest certain particles, then it shall begin to grow and all the time sucking and pulling.

This guy is right to be concerned i have been for a long time as have many many many others, it is not something to be messed with with so many unknowns.

keep this topic going we cant afford to allow this to disapear, or us for that matter.

Down with the mad scientist, up with common bloody sense.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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I am pretty sure there was a thread about this atom smasher recently, and from what the ATS members were saying the actual chances of it destroying our planet is astronomically small. As the black-hole itself is very small.

Of course if this guy is a nuclear physicist perhaps he has something on the contrary to say? Or maybe hes just trying to get some cash from the law-suit? Maybe he's just trying to get some face recognition?

[edit on 043131p://28u02 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by azzllin
but every scientist agrees that these dangers are a real possibilit


Well that was in direct opposition to what I just said


Guess I missed some of the threads. You said 'every' scientist. Can you qoute some relevant stuff on that assertion?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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My thoughts, for what ever they might be worth

After ready the source, my opinion is this man is mostly just a nut job.
Science creating something that gobbles up the earth is in my opinion still something just for the late show. Math and science are aware of the energy relices from colliding particles of matter and anti matter in the present day colliders. Creating a sustainable reaction, although is still theoretical, there is probably a reasonable idea what it would take to keep it going.
I hope discoveries will be made from this new collider.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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Here is the arguement taken straight from the article:


"[T]he compression of the two atoms colliding together at nearly light speed will cause an irreversible implosion, forming a miniature version of a giant black hole," reads the lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Honolulu.

"[A]ny matter coming into contact with it would fall into it and never be able to escape. Eventually, all of earth would fall into such growing micro-black-hole, converting earth into a medium-sized black hole, around which would continue to orbit the moon, satellites, the ISS, etc."


Here is the counter from the same article:


Most physicists say Wagner's worries are unfounded. Micro black holes would evaporate nearly instantly instead of combining to form larger ones, they say, and the "strangelet" particles he frets would freeze the world would in fact fall apart quickly.


Here is what the article said about this guys credentials:


Wagner's own background is a bit fuzzy. He claims to have minored in physics at U.C. Berkeley, gone to law school, taught elementary-school science and worked in nuclear medicine at health facilities — but he doesn't appear to have an advanced degree in science.


So his 'background in nuclear physics' is really just a minor in physics.

It also says he worked in 'nuclear medicine at health facilities'. What exactly would that entail?..

[edit on 043131p://28u13 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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Well - if I understand it correctly - they claim that the chance must be zero because energetic particles from space smash into the upper atmosphere all the time with the same or greater energy.

Therefore black holes are constantly being created and dissolving due to these impacts in the upper atmosphere and are thus never dangerous.

This does seem to be grounded in sensible logic - however - I feel it's just bloody sloppy science to take these unkown risks on such an unqunatified risk/benefit basis.

If we continue to take this approach to all discoveries like this we will indeed lead the Human race into early civilization extinction...

It's about time we started to look at the bigger picture - although I fear this will not happen until we extend our average lifetimes to well beyond 100 years (and thats currently only really 50-60 active ones)

Until then humans will make very short sighted decisions - essentially acting like suicidal maniacs - since they've got very little in the scheme of things to lose...

Not all of us - of course - think like this - but we are in the tiniest minority...



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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so maybe its my lack of understanding but i was under the impression that a black hole was formed when a star fizzled then collapsed in on itself due to the mass....and there would be a LOT of mass there yeah?

so the big worry this guy has is that a few charged particles colliding with almost no measureable mass is going to do the same thing"?


yeah, not gonna lose sleep over this one



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:40 PM
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Two words: John Titor





Wagner's own background is a bit fuzzy. He claims to have minored in physics at U.C. Berkeley, gone to law school, taught elementary-school science and worked in nuclear medicine at health facilities — but he doesn't appear to have an advanced degree in science.


This guy is a scam artist that is using fear mongering to accept "donations" to a fraud organization. He's on a beach in Hawaii laughing about it.

The internet has allowed for scam artists and con men to create new types of Confidence tricks.

If tiny black holes are created, they should evaporate virtually instantly. If they don't, they, and their event horizon, would be so small that they would virtually never come into contact with any other matter. If they did, it would take a week to swallow up even one proton. It would take 20 billion years to swallow an eyelash, and the Sun will go supernova before we even noticed that our eyelash is only 3/4 in length. That said, if cosmic ray collisions are of any signifigance to mini black holes, then they are already created naturally and travelling at near light speed, just as most of the ones created in the LHC would be.

If they drop near the center of the earth...

It wouldn't even matter!!!!
( get it?
)

No?
Yes?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Damocles
so maybe its my lack of understanding but i was under the impression that a black hole was formed when a star fizzled then collapsed in on itself due to the mass....and there would be a LOT of mass there yeah?


Well this dude is saying it would just take two particles traveling faster then superman, to run into eachother. At which point a small giant black hole would form and subsequently become the biggest gluttonist this World has ever seen, or not seen cuz it's devoid of light, either way



so the big worry this guy has is that a few charged particles colliding with almost no measureable mass is going to do the same thing"?


That's what I am collecting, but I just have a minor in psychology


[edit on 043131p://28u31 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Mr. Ree
Two words: John Titor




You know he might have been wrong about most things, but he was right about Unix and he was right about The Shotgun Militia



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Mr. Ree
If they drop near the center of the earth...

It wouldn't even matter!!!!
( get it?
)

No?
Yes?


yes

but it would matter to all the folks in the hollow earth now wouldnt it?

god i need sleep.....



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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What this guy is saying isn't exactly new. Here's a fun little bit on Exit Mundi for anyone interested;
www.exitmundi.nl...

I'm not a nuclear physicist or anything like that, but in the event that this little .01% chance of an accident happens, that could be a very big oops. Then again on the other hand there were many well respected scientists who thought that the Trinity nuclear test might ignite the entire atmosphere and thus annihilate all life on Earth as we know it.

I doubt that this lawsuit is going to have much effect, especially given the guy's fuzzy background. So I suppose that we'll all have to see how it goes. But I figure once we're at the year 2013 we're pretty much out of the woods on just about all of the end of the world theories yet made.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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wait....isnt this thing buried under part of france?

and theres a slight chance it could blow up?

hmmmmm



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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I'd think more than anything, they'd have to be concerned about what came threw it if it stayed open.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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came through what?

the black hole?

you do know they dont work like that right?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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Even if this did cause the end of the world (and also the solar system and all surrounding solar systems, stars, etc) it's not like we would feel anything. One nanosecond you would be throwing tictacs into the air to catch them in your mouth, and the next nanosecond you would cease to exist. Personally, I wouldn't really mind. But I guess that's just me.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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Yeah, stuff goes in and sure doesn't come back. Works kind of like a garbage compactor, anything that goes in gets compressed into much smaller volume that it had previously taken up.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Damocles
 


New Scientist Article
/2uyfjs

the idea presented by the 2 russian scientists/mathematicians was that it could open a rift in time and be the first known time machine. my response to that is, if it developed to that point, i'd be more concerned about what came threw it.

[edit on 28-3-2008 by undo]




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