Hey all, the other night i came across a problem while urban climbing and wanted to get some input.

The line is a traverse hanging under a 3.5" round steel tube that wobbles slightly. At the end I need to go from underslung traverse to on top, and to a standing position. I don't have enough room below to dangle from my arms, so i need to figure out a way to get on top without letting my feet fall below the level of my butt while i'm hanging by my hands. I can also hang from my knees handsfree on it with just enough clearance for me to not hit my head.

How would you get on top from underneath without dangling down by your hands?

Any ninjas or special forces peoples out there that can help?
TIA!

A picture might help out a lot.... I just can't seem to wrap my head around this one. Why can't you let your legs dangle below the level of your butt? If you are hitting your head whilst hanging upside down, wouldn't that mean there is something for you to stand on there?

Sounds like you're really pushing the limit with some "Mission Impossible" type stuff here . Good luck. Urban exploration is some exhilarating stuff.

[edit on 3/28/2008 by Yarcofin]

very similar to a short ceiling to an exit in climbing.

either reach out and get your hands on the top (if im picturing this right) then do a pullup and mantle it (not my prefered method) or get your body out and do a heel hook on the top and mantle from that position.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
A picture might help out a lot.... I just can't seem to wrap my head around this one. Why can't you let your legs dangle below the level of your butt? If you are hitting your head whilst hanging upside down, wouldn't that mean there is something for you to stand on there?

Sounds like you're really pushing the limit with some "Mission Impossible" type stuff here . Good luck. Urban exploration is some exhilarating stuff.

[edit on 3/28/2008 by Yarcofin]

Yeah, there's something to stand on, but then it wouldn't be a climbing line, cause i'd just stand up and walk under the bar and not learn how to get on top to a standing position so i can jump to an adjacent rail and traverse that one too

Damocales, can you expound on the heel hook method?

i think im picturing this wrong...i envisioned that you were using a pipe under a ceiling to traverse out to the edge, and from there mount up to a roof of some sort.

to heel hook that you'd put your hands on the outter edge of the ceiling and while leaving one foot hooked to the pipe you'd take your other foot and hook your heel on the roof level with your hands. then let your other foot go and use your arms and leg to pull yourself up over the edge.

that make sense?

No offense but why are you climbing up a 3.5" pole?

No offense meant but IMHO if there's one type of personality that will likely get themselves or someone else killed, it's the adrenalin junkie types. Rock climbing is only performed by the military as a last resort.

I did the whole rope climbing and hanging thing in Basic and never used it once during 20 years of military service. Escape routes and assault routes are at ground level whenever possible so good cover can be established. Any smart defender is going to put at least enough people on the roof to defend the position from all approaches.

When I did escape and evasion training, 20 years ago they drilled the home the point many times that you can't escape and evade very well if the enemy sees you. Sudden and/or out of place movement always attracts attention.

For urban survival, the best physical skill I can think of is being still and listening for out of place sounds. Second would be carrying heavy loads. Few people can carry even 50 lbs a mile without stopping.

IMHO one of the most important physical skills anyone can learn and practice for a survival situation is how to use real hand tools. I still have and use some old professional carpentry tools that were passed down to me from my grandfather. Don't get me wrong rechargeables power tools are great but if there's a prolonged economic or energy grid collapse, those batteries won't last forever.

well adreanaline junkie i may be...but i was a climbing instructor for 10 years and taught some survival classes along the way, but overall i agree with crg.

where i disagree is that sometimes where you are isnt an ideal location and sometimes to get from point A to point B even the path of LEAST resistance has a rock face in between.

but rather than trying to learn to climb on buildings...which is fun (dont ask about the night i nearly got arrested in downtown omaha lol) find a climbing gym nearby and take some classes there then make friends with some of the locals at the gym and get them to take you out on a real climbing trip. gyms are great places to start learning but the only way to learn rock climbing is to go do it.

Originally posted by crgintx
No offense but why are you climbing up a 3.5" pole?

No offense meant but IMHO if there's one type of personality that will likely get themselves or someone else killed, it's the adrenalin junkie types. Rock climbing is only performed by the military as a last resort.

Because i use climbing as physical training, i've been doing so for years, and yes, i'm an adrenaline junkie, have been for about 30 years, and as to why i want to mount a 3.5" suspended pole in tight confines, it's because i simply want to learn that skill. I ride biketrials and sometimes compete on the North America circuit, and i'm usually balancing on rails on my bike, but since i'm waiting on some bike parts i've been out climbing more for balance practice and core strength.

You reinforced my whole point of learning advanced climbing skills, military climb as a last resort, if i do have to evade NATO NWO cops i'll feel pretty confident when i can easily free-solo ascend challenging routes. While hiking, my friend and I usually discuss and practice evasion tactics such as moving fast over rugged terrain smoothly and quietly. We're pretty confident we could outpace and outmaneuver pursuers on foot, along with studying and using strategy, like Sun Tzu said, "maneuver in the highest heights, hide in the deepest depths".

Also, i'm in athlete condition, a 50lb load on my back and i can easily make 20-40 miles per night on foot depending on how much vertical i have to cover, but i usually don't carry much if any gear, i can survive on the run naked in the desert if i had to, i've done some 30+ mile trips through the desert with no pack, no pockets, just a t shirt, boxer shorts, and crappy shoes.

Oh yeah, and as far as getting someone else killed, that's why there's really only one person i'd trust to come with me and be able to keep up without falter, to follow doctrine, and do it all covertly. That's why i usually go alone, because not many people would survive following me where i go for fun. I'm just as at home in the bush as the deer, rabbits, and fowl.

Oh, and as for the pole, no, there's no ceiling, I want to mount the pole itself from underslung traverse so that i'm standing on top of the pole with no assist from any other objects, there's nothing else within reach. I need to stand on top and jump to another parallell pole the same size about 8' away and a bit higher, landing on my feet on top of that one so i can walk along the top of that one.

Originally posted by crgintx
For urban survival, the best physical skill I can think of is being still and listening for out of place sounds. Second would be carrying heavy loads. Few people can carry even 50 lbs a mile without stopping.

A daily training routine to build physical skills could be something very simple and easily incorporated.

For instance, when grocery shopping I use a handbasket and only buy what I can fit in the basket and carry the 2 miles home. Its amazing to realise when you get into this routine just how much unnecessary junk you buy, and how heavy a week's supply of groceries is when you carry it in bags for a few miles.

Also, taking walks around your neighbourhood after dark and getting used to unfamiliar sounds and your environment as you least know it can do wonders in enhancing your 'threat perception' and reflexes.

Originally posted by Damocles
but rather than trying to learn to climb on buildings...which is fun (dont ask about the night i nearly got arrested in downtown omaha lol) find a climbing gym nearby and take some classes there then make friends with some of the locals at the gym and get them to take you out on a real climbing trip. gyms are great places to start learning but the only way to learn rock climbing is to go do it.

There's no rock climbing gyms anywhere near me, but i live in a small town with tons of cool structures to climb, and that town is located in a near vertical canyon. Where i live there's substantially more vertical than there is level ground, and any hike besides a trail walk (and even the "easy way" involves a 40-50deg ascent over cactus studded razor sharp talus for about 1000' of vert. Eventually i'm looking to build a covert cliff dwelling in the more remote and inaccessible parts of the mountians, and i plan to get a network of spiderholes throughout the area eventually, small nooks concealed and reinforced with stone to have a place to duck down and avoid my thermal signature being easily detected. I do go to places where native americans held off whitey and study their natural defenses, and how they use concealment, mobility through rough terrain, etc. to hold off larger numbers of superior forces. One of the things you notice is that there's plenty of spiderholes and every vertical surface is pockmarked with footholds for making fast running vertical ascents up to vantage points or ambush spots. Rocks are carved out in the profile of a human form holding a drawn bow on steep ledges, with an arrow port, so that ambushers can fire at the enemy without risking exposure themselves. I climb a lot in places like this and study the ground to see what makes such spots effective strongholds.

Originally posted by Damocles
but rather than trying to learn to climb on buildings...which is fun (dont ask about the night i nearly got arrested in downtown omaha lol) find a climbing gym nearby and take some classes there then make friends with some of the locals at the gym and get them to take you out on a real climbing trip. gyms are great places to start learning but the only way to learn rock climbing is to go do it.

There's no rock climbing gyms anywhere near me, but i live in a small town with tons of cool structures to climb, and that town is located in a near vertical canyon. Where i live there's substantially more vertical than there is level ground, and any hike besides a trail walk (and even the "easy way" involves a 40-50deg ascent over cactus studded razor sharp talus for about 1000' of vert. Eventually i'm looking to build a covert cliff dwelling in the more remote and inaccessible parts of the mountians, and i plan to get a network of spiderholes throughout the area eventually, small nooks concealed and reinforced with stone to have a place to duck down and avoid my thermal signature being easily detected. I do go to places where native americans held off whitey and study their natural defenses, and how they use concealment, mobility through rough terrain, etc. to hold off larger numbers of superior forces. One of the things you notice is that there's plenty of spiderholes and every vertical surface is pockmarked with footholds for making fast running vertical ascents up to vantage points or ambush spots. Rocks are carved out in the profile of a human form holding a drawn bow on steep ledges, with an arrow port, so that ambushers can fire at the enemy without risking exposure themselves. I climb a lot in places like this and study the ground to see what makes such spots effective strongholds.

Originally posted by Damocles
but rather than trying to learn to climb on buildings...which is fun (dont ask about the night i nearly got arrested in downtown omaha lol) find a climbing gym nearby and take some classes there then make friends with some of the locals at the gym and get them to take you out on a real climbing trip. gyms are great places to start learning but the only way to learn rock climbing is to go do it.

There's no rock climbing gyms anywhere near me, but i live in a small town with tons of cool structures to climb, and that town is located in a near vertical canyon. Where i live there's substantially more vertical than there is level ground, and any hike besides a trail walk (and even the "easy way" involves a 40-50deg ascent over cactus studded razor sharp talus for about 1000' of vert. Eventually i'm looking to build a covert cliff dwelling in the more remote and inaccessible parts of the mountians, and i plan to get a network of spiderholes throughout the area eventually, small nooks concealed and reinforced with stone to have a place to duck down and avoid my thermal signature being easily detected. I do go to places where native americans held off whitey and study their natural defenses, and how they use concealment, mobility through rough terrain, etc. to hold off larger numbers of superior forces. One of the things you notice is that there's plenty of spiderholes and every vertical surface is pockmarked with footholds for making fast running vertical ascents up to vantage points or ambush spots. Rocks are carved out in the profile of a human form holding a drawn bow on steep ledges, with an arrow port, so that ambushers can fire at the enemy without risking exposure themselves. I climb a lot in places like this and study the ground to see what makes such spots effective strongholds.

why not just use a sling ? - i carry one + a krab in my pocket almost all the time

I'm curious what is Above Top Secret about this post... You might want to check Below Top Secret for questions like this... If I'm wrong I'm sorry, but I think I'm right here... Up to the Mod's...

So, anybody got any ideas on how to mount the obstacle from underslung?

Yeah, but i'm asking how to do it without a sling, i always carry my arms and legs, i don't carry a sling. I can easily do it with a sling or even 10' of rope, but i want to figure it out using nothing but me, there's got to be a good way to flip right over to the top somehow, i just can't visualize how to do it exactly.