Originally posted by telepath
Atlas,

This is a great thread and I hope to see it gain more attention. For thousands of years humans have tended to spritualize things they do not understand. I think the majority of people in New Age Cults are being mislead. I think some are sincere about this, however, people are getting fleeced.


[edit on 29-5-2008 by telepath]

Hey thanks telepath for bringing this thread back into the main, I had forgot how good it was

Hi

Well I know since I broke away from "group thinking" and have made my own decisions on the great ascension debat everything has become so much clearer for me. ( ET abduction is very much a part of ascension and the two need to be linked)

This is a difficult area because chanellers can provide us with so much information, however I do believe they have a responsability to mankind to give us this information correctly. They should tell us the truth, not ram it down our necks, and they should then let us make our own minds up in our own time.

I trust the quiter chanellers who tell you only once you have realized the truth anyway. They do not tell you the truth they confirm it. The truth is better to be found by yourself and not in religious groups or gangs. How do we find the truth...we just go and look for it and it will find us.

Once you have found an answer you will know it is the truth because your heart tells you so. Your heart does not lie to you and as long as you follow this the truth will be found within you.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by Mr Green


Once you have found an answer you will know it is the truth because your heart tells you so. Your heart does not lie to you and as long as you follow this the truth will be found within you.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by Mr Green]

Thanks MG,

Great post. thanks for sharing this. This is fundamentally a core principle that we all have and see in others and we more often than not attribute this to spiritual or religious ideology and beliefs. The fact that you get this from your experiences further highlights my belief of its religious nature. We than agree that we all have our own beliefs, but then we find people that have similar beliefs and experiences and we share and grow together. We let these beliefs guide us, these beliefs become religion...some spread, grow.....some don't. I think many people are afraid of the religious characterisation when we include the belief in aliens and alien abductions. As this belief is influenced by science and technology which people characterise as being opposed to religion. Where i am arguing that we may be just updating our older beliefs with this new influence. Thanks again MG.

The findings that connected alien contact or abduction memories with people more prone to fantasy thought is extremely questionable. Did they first study a large random sample of the public, ie. thousands, to determine how they thought and then spend years taking in the random experiences of these individuals? For some reason I don't believe that is how the study was performed. If it was done after the experiences occurred then how fantasy prone the persons thinking became could not be ruled out as being directly related to unusual events (ie. actual alien abduction) occurring and transforming the way they thought. Experiences do actually change us.

As for myself, with regards to the numerous sightings our family has had, and an actual sighting of a grey as a child, before I'd ever encountered any idea like that in any form of media (in fact, only recently with pictures of greys on the internet did I confirm what I had seen). And a memory. In the end, nothing has changed my spiritual beliefs, I've had them since my preteen years, after reading scripture and thinking things out. In time my more traditional Christian beliefs turned into a blend of that and gnostic thought. I'm really not interested in a static religion where everything that we ever need to know is contained in an ancient manuscript with norms and dictates that don't comply with the situations of modern people. So while I still like certain parts of the new testament, I am new age, gnostic and on a personal journey of discovery. This is just me, not related to any experiences or memories. How can an abduction dictate a faith? Et is a corporal being, and therefore isn't a spiritual authority at all! Though I'm delighted to discover the more positive human types, I still don't allow my faith to be dictated in any capacity.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by mystiq
The findings that connected alien contact or abduction memories with people more prone to fantasy thought is extremely questionable.

First of all, thanks for your reply. Can you please explain the questionable elements of these studies. And please be specific about which study your are referring too, as i have linked at least three, i have also linked other Alien Abduction sites that address this issue and they have there own studies. Have you read all three studies?

Did they first study a large random sample of the public, i.e.. thousands, to determine how they thought and then spend years taking in the random experiences of these individuals?

Ok, so now it is clear you have not read the studies you have already deemed questionable! And by the way, these studies are not about random experiences, they are about specific experiences, specific claims of alien abduction and contact. So your point on random experiences has nothing to do with the study, as random experiences could mean anything. Read the studies, one concentrates on a small group, the other are referencing more numbers, Susan Clancy has selected a large cross section. It should also interest you that the estimations of incidence(estimated to be millions of people in the USA alone) was based on small group studies, Like Roper.....so there are many questionable elements to these numbers and estimations. If you are inferring that we need a massive cross section to study, then we also need to re-evaluate the estimations of people experiencing AAEC, which would totally remove these estimates from the arguments put forth by those who believe in ET and use these estimates of millions of Alien Abductions to support their beliefs. Somehow i doubt many people who believe in ET find these estimates questionable, as they support there beliefs.

For some reason I don't believe that is how the study was performed.

Please explain the "some reason" as it would be great to discuss these studies and these topics with a more solid frame of reference other than "some reason". Once again, the study is of the Alien Abduction Experience, In the vast majority of these experiences the only information is sourced from the person claiming to have had the experience, that person attributes that experience to aliens, these studies are looking at the experience and what other possible explanations there may be, especially as there are no "aliens" or any other evidence of aliens to directly attribute these experiences too. If you have a better way of conducting it would make the thread better if you would share it.

If it was done after the experiences occurred then how fantasy prone the persons thinking became could not be ruled out as being directly related to unusual events (i.e.. actual alien abduction) occurring and transforming the way they thought. Experiences do actually change us.

Let me address your first question. Of course the study was done after the experiences. If we could witness the abductions we would not be here discussing alternative explanations as there would be overwhelming evidence that aliens were abducting these people, at the moment we do not have this evidence and so must wait for the personal testimonies of those who believe they have had an experience. I find your first comment slightly ridiculous, and poorly thought out. Your second comment is exactly what this study finds, that those prone to fantastical thinking are more likely to claim alien abduction, it is not that because they believe in alien abduction, they are fantasy prone. At least two of the studies looks at psychologically profiling individuals, when a pattern emerged that the vast majority of those claiming to have AAEC fell into a specific group this was considered significant and a possible cause. This is generally how most studies or research is done. While it has flaws, and without any other solid evidence of aliens abducting people other than personal testimony, it is all we have.

As for myself, with regards to the numerous sightings our family has had, and an actual sighting of a grey as a child, before I'd ever encountered any idea like that in any form of media (in fact, only recently with pictures of greys on the internet did I confirm what I had seen). And a memory. In the end, nothing has changed my spiritual beliefs, I've had them since my preteen years, after reading scripture and thinking things out. In time my more traditional Christian beliefs turned into a blend of that and Gnostic thought. I'm really not interested in a static religion where everything that we ever need to know is contained in an ancient manuscript with norms and dictates that don't comply with the situations of modern people.

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences and feelings. Your story is similar to many others i have encountered, as I am sure others have shared similar stories to you. When you say sightings, are you referring to UFO. As UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Objects. Not Unidentified Flying Objects that have Aliens in them that we observe abducting people. Sorry if this sounds a bit condescending, but there is a huge leap of faith in between seeing a UFO and believing in what is controlling it, and then another leap in attributing AAE to these same UFO. There those words again, Belief and Faith.

So while I still like certain parts of the new testament, I am new age, Gnostic and on a personal journey of discovery.

All the best to you, and i hope your journey is a fulfilling one.

This is just me, not related to any experiences or memories. How can an abduction dictate a faith? Et is a corporal being, and therefore isn't a spiritual authority at all!

I believe you should look further into the Alien Abduction Experience. Look over the firsts two pages of this thread for starters. There are many, many links that highlight the spiritual aspects of these experiences and the resemblance to more traditional religious and spiritual phenomena.
When you say ET is a corporal being, why do we not have people with AAEc showing us any other evidence to support this?, why do the vast majority of AAEc occur without any UFO activity? Why do more and more mediums now claim to have contact with a superior alien race, where as traditionally they were spirits?
People experience spiritual changes after having these experiences, many contactees claim that they have a mission, or message to spread. The list goes on, and on. The fact that there is no definitive proof of ET to attribute these experiences to places these ET's along side the likes of God, Spirits, demons, Angels......people believe that these also, based on a personal experiences and/or contact.....and as we have no definitive proof that they exist we call a belief in these a faith, religion.....can you not see the similarities. What about the groups that have grown purely on the claims of a persons Alien Influence or Contact experiences, Scientology, Raelism, Aetherius Society, Heavens Gate, Unarius, Galactic federation. This is exactly how religions grow. All these have traits that promise the redemption or salvation of humanity or the individual via alien intervention or influence, but with no aliens to show, requiring a belief based on faith in an experience, now if you replace the word alien, with God, or A spirit, or an Angel.....you'd call that what? Religion. These are just a few examples of the religious nature and characteristics that we observe in relation to Alien abduction and contatee experiences.

Though I'm delighted to discover the more positive human types, I still don't allow my faith to be dictated in any capacity.

That is great. I am happy for you.
Thank you once again for contributing to the thread, and for sharing your own experiences and feelings.
Cheers.


[edit on 21-8-2008 by atlasastro]

I wasn't a member when this thread started, so I missed it first time around. Anyway it has been interesting reading the posts.
But I think the OP is trying to make something fit, that isn't quite there.

All abductees / contactees have seen and experienced et's.
Each person has their own personal experiences, which happen to tie up. So you have lots of witnesses all testifying the same thing.

Have all Christians seen and experienced Jesus, no that is why they need faith. The flock follow their religious leaders and need instruction on their thoughts and actions.

The worst thing that could happen is that a contactee starts a religion, but the let's do try and prevent this from happening.

Originally posted by lightchild
I wasn't a member when this thread started, so I missed it first time around. Anyway it has been interesting reading the posts.
But I think the OP is trying to make something fit, that isn't quite there.

Well, thanks for joining in anyway. Better late than never.
As for making it fit, I believe we are seeing a "new" religion growing. So it may not fit if you have a narrow view of religion.

re⋅li⋅gion  [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp.

We see people attributing the creation of Humans as being the work of Et's.

when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Usually is a word here asociated with observing the rituals and devotions of traditional religions, as I have stated, the belief is NEW and there are some ET beliefs that have these, so usual characteristics may not apply given that it is the cultural influence of two other extremely modern factors that are, IMHO, aiding in promoting this belief. These two other influences are science and technology.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

We see when we look at groups like Ashtar Command and the Galactic Confederation of Light, Terra Papers, Book of Urantia, Raelism and others. All have similar beliefs all revolving around the same theme, that being ET's. All have extremely important links to contatctees(via various methods like direct contact, mediums) to explain the belief.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

At the moment this does not fit. As the belief has not reached a critical point. That being it is culturally acceptable to defer to this type of supranatural beings, where as the vast majority of people readily accept those that defer to and believe in God, or Allah, Buddah or Krishna etc. etc.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

Scientology has members that commit themselves to Service. In fact Scientology is the only New religious belief to emerge in the 20th Century. All though it is not accepted as a religion in many countries. I believe it is more the buisness aspect of the group that prevents it from gaining acceptance as a religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Will we see these ritual emerge? Well Yes, they are here now. In Scientology we have people going through the process(ritual?) of "Clearing". Also, Abductees regularly meet in groups to discuss and share the meaning and relevance of their experiences. In some cases Abductees will meet to spread a message or an inspiration given to them from their experiences, as do contactees. Raelisms, has a church, has a bishop named Brigitte Boisselier, and even have prefered view on marriage that they deem non-contractual arrangements. Raelism also has a rite of intiation(think baptism) called the Transmission of the Cellular Plan. They have updated the belief of Jesus Christs resurection to that being a cloned version of Jesus by technologically advances beings called the Elohim. See, there is science and technology again, informing and updating older traditional beliefs.
-idiom

a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.

We can see these deep convictions right here on ATS, and members have even been brave and kind enough to share them on this thread.

b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

Ever here people say they have awakened, are now aware of ET and an Alien presence. Did these people get "religion" and mend thier errant "sheeple ways".

]All abductees / contactees have seen and experienced et's.
Each person has their own personal experiences, which happen to tie up. So you have lots of witnesses all testifying the same thing.

Yes. But it is the same for other religions. We can find a plethora of personal testimonies in other beliefs.

Have all Christians seen and experienced Jesus, no that is why they need faith. The flock follow their religious leaders and need instruction on their thoughts and actions.

I can find you many examples of people who claimed they have seen him, been contacted by him or recieved a miracle from him from an experience. In fact, red the New Testament. It is full of personal testimonies on Jesus. Those that follow without experiences are no different to those that form a belief in Alien Abduction experiences just from people claiming they are having those experiences. We see people using the Alien Abduction experiences and Testimonies of Contactees and proof or a reason to believe in ET's. Those that do this place "faith" in those testimonies and experiences.

The worst thing that could happen is that a contactee starts a religion, but the let's do try and prevent this from happening.

To late dude. Its way to late for that. I agree that if we follow the example of other traditional religions it can't be good for anyone. We are already seeing people manipulated, brainwashed and used by organised beliefs that are centre around a belief in Aliens. That sounds exactly like a religion to me.

Thank you for your thoughts and reply.





[edit on 15-7-2009 by atlasastro]