How old is civilization?

Howdy S

The civilization would simply move with the slow rise of the waters. There has never been (AFAIK) a civilization that stays religious only on a coastal area and never ventures into the inner land or just sits there and waits to be flooded out. They tend to move. Most early cultures tended to have gathering sites inland and along the coast, moving seasonally. We should be find more civilizations as we go deeper and marine archaeology improves.

The ice ages would be tougher on remains but we find remains from before the last ice age and before. If the material is in the soil it will survive. Much of ice age coverage wasn't classic glaciers but plain accumulation of snow.

As I said, people must agree on the definition of civilization before they can argue for or against the existence of one.

You seem to feel that civilization is what comes after hunter-gatherer, but I do not agree.

There is no reason to call the Clovis People a civilization.

Cave paintings appear to be shamanistic in nature and not expressions of what we refer to as "art," which requires leisure. Cave paintings were done (apparently) as a ritual for a particular purpose, as almost all examples are drawn right on top of previous drawings.


Not so. The flooded constructions in India were not flooded by glacial meltwaters associated with the last ice age. The tectonic plate holding India (Indo-Australian plate, IIRC,) is being subducted in some areas. IOW, the water didn't rise, the ground sank.

One site has become flooded within the past few hundred years, in fact, but I don't remember which.



No question. This has happened in my lifetime already, and will probably happen in everyone's lifetime.

Harte

[edit on 4/9/2008 by Harte]

The history of ancient man change virtually every day - which brings to mind an idea for a thread! It takes 3-5 years for new ideas to filter thru into textbooks.

Which is why most archaeology courses have supplementary materials on websites.

Our civilization predates our arrival on this planet.

We are the survivors of an ancient species.

Okay, interesting idea - got any meat to go with the bones of that idea?



Why is our genetic/DNA structure the same as the other creatures on this planet?

I think for a culture to qualify as civilization, it needs to fulfill fairly few requirements. For example, I don't think writing is essential for civilization.

I suspect it is probably as simple as "a culture that is able to support social classes".

This can be further extrapolated to mean a culture where not everyone has to be a farmer - there are other people who do more skilled and specialised jobs, a form of government, arts and entertainment, etc etc.

reply to post by gingern

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Well, first, the Piri Reis map is from the 17th century and is supposedly based off earlier turkish documents, circa about the 1500's. It certainly doesn't fall under "ancient civilizations" by any degree. It's claim to fame is that it supposedly shows Antarctica, not its age.

its other claim to fame is being drawn by what might have been the worst cartographer history has ever seen, but that's beside the point.

However.... by 'agreement' we also also definitely mean 'consensus' then the perimeters of what defines the definition of a Civilization is both an Academic and Political exercise... there is no real truth to be found in that...

It has been Postulated that the cave paintings (an expression of a structured and civilized society) were only done by an extreme cult of people within a culture,( the shamans and apprentices), while the general population were either unawares or were left-out-of-the-loop is totally speculation... so that modern academics could classify these ancestors of ours as being un-civilized.

the world is not a Judeo-Christian landscape,
it is more like a classic cut jig-saw puzzle

I think some of the medieval map makers were worse.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin

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This makes very good sense. I posted somthing very similar on the first page of this thread in response to grover's request for a definition: Civilization: potty-training for adults

Thank you, and I love the title of that post.

Dictionary.com describes it as thus (along with many other peripheral definitions):

1. an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached.


This would imply that separate social classes are required for a society to be classed as a civilization.