Big Pharma attacks vitamins + minerals

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posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by eradown
 


I doubt that those people need to grow it on their own farms. In USSR, for example, there were special locations which grew everything - from food to sheep for wool- for the top guys. If these people really rule the world, I'll bet that there are special places to grow a toxin-free foods. They do not even have to own these places, the prices for real non-modified non-toxic clear vegetables (or especially meat) will be very very high- thus accessible to few.
As for the issue itself, side effects of medications are there. The question is what is the chance for it to happen. I remember seeing in certain drug for allergies that it can cause an allergy, while just starting studies. Kind of explained a lot about industry. The rule is - you do not need it - do not take it.
But once again,people - vitamins and minerals and herbs can also cause side-effects. Especially when taken in huge amounts. Even regular not polluted water in huge amounts can kill. So as a person involved in industry - there needs to be regulation of these things. Dosage/counter-indications/interactions. People can actually die using certain herbs without full info. Here a guy died from Digitalis tea that he made. It has to be regulated.
You should remember how drug regulation started - at beginning of last century this was a open market. It gave possibility to Aspirin (which will not pass tests today :lol
but also to different idiotic/deadly medicines. I mean like a morphine to kids for a toothache. Very wise. Children asked for it again and again... Wonder why. Or original Coca-Kola...Also with certain ingredients, was a medication at start.




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


I hear what your saying, and pretty much agree with you.
But I still say its education and not regulation.

Here is the difference.

With regulation we put the responsibility on the very ones (government) who people on these boards claim are controlling us.

Education puts the ball (where most people dont want it) square in their court.
People are either too lazy, or afraid (i feel the latter) to take on the responsibility for...anything.

Until people 'awaken' then this cyclical spiral we are in will continue.

Is regulation bad? Depends on perspective and timing.
There is a time and place for everything...wouldnt it be great if we 'evolved' past this?

Co-operation and Collaboration vs. competition. This is the new way of 'industry' - if that term can even be used.


Peace

dAlen



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


Big pharma has a pipe dream that they will be the lords of happiness and of death in this country and even if they are able to convince congress that there are masses of people O.D.ing on herbs(which there are not), there are enough people who are creative , scientific and spiritual enough to get around all their bans. This about control. Those who are behind this ban know that herbs and vitamins work. By your logic, perhaps we should ban people from drinking water without the supervision of a doctor after all people have died from drinking too much water.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by eradown This about control. Those who are behind this ban know that herbs and vitamins work.


If herbs and vitamins do everything you claim, then there should be lots of science to support it. And we can surmise from your tone that you don't take any pharmaceuticals? Isn't there a thread on the board right now about parents whose daughter died because they refused her medical treatment and depended upon prayer instead? I guess that's what blind faith gets ya sometimes.

Frankly, I'll take that aspirin.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


What is it with the defenders of big pharma? Why did you bring up religious people who did not take there sick child to a doctor? You want to tar and feather all religious people with that story as if atheists have never neglected their children. By the way if you think I am religous , your veiw of reality is scewed.

If I choose to take parsley pills what difference does it make to you or big pharma? If you ban me from taking parsley pills why I'll grow my own parsley. Then big pharma will send the government to tear up my garden because vegetables have medicinal qualities. Just one more example of a government trying to crimenalize everything. Wow! I could become the ultimate rebel by eating vegetables.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by eradownIf I choose to take parsley pills what difference does it make to you or big pharma? If you ban me from taking parsley pills why I'll grow my own parsley. Then big pharma will send the government to tear up my garden because vegetables have medicinal qualities. Just one more example of a government trying to crimenalize everything. Wow! I could become the ultimate rebel by eating vegetables.


Just addressing your quote that herbs and vitamins work...that's what difference it makes to me. If you don't want to be challenged, then don't make sweeping generalities. Capiche?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


What do you think banning all herbal supplements is if not a huge sweeping genalization? I mean the only argument against herbs I have heard so far is that people might O.D. on them. Well as I said people have overdosed on water. It would be a dumb idea to ban drinking water without a doctors supervision. Likewise I think it would be a bad idea to ban herbs and vitamins.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by eradown genalization? I mean the only argument against herbs I have heard so far is that people might O.D. on them. Well as I said people have overdosed on water. It would be a dumb idea to ban drinking water without a doctors supervision. Likewise I think it would be a bad idea to ban herbs and vitamins.


I think that if you check the original post, the comment read as follows: "Big Pharma is trying to put vitamin and mineral manufacturers out of business by getting their stooges in the FDA TO GET CONGRESS TO LEGISLATE THAT MANUFACTURING OF MINERALS AND SUPPLEMENTS have the same quality control as medical drugs.

That makes it a different discussion from banning all herbal supplements.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by dAlen
 


You've covered all the bases there. Fast food once in awhile shouldn't hurt anyone.. but then I'd have to write an article about what "Occasional Fast Food" means to me, compared to the guy who flips burgers for a living.

Anyway, whole foods, unprocessed, a meal you prepare by slicing and dicing, add some spice, maybe boil some rice would be nice. It may take longer to prepare, but you'll feel better and won't have oily hair.


Good diet, and supplements. Go with a name brand you trust. You can't get everything you need from even the best prepared meals. Actually you can, but if you weight train, follow a challenging exercise routine, and don't want to burn yourself out at work, then drinking a protein shake and taking amino acids, tribulus terrestris, creatine, and so on, then you're probably able to answer your own questions as to what does the body good.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Good herb companies and vitamin companies will be put out of bussiness ,and the pharmaceutical companies know this.

FDA is a farse because it does not even protect Americans from melamine. They are a waste of tax dollars ;they are good for nothing.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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There are some false ideas people have with vitamins though. Like how B vitamins are added to drinks because it will increase energy, when in fact there is no benefit from having "more" of the vitamin. There were a couple news stories I read about awhile back where they found some heavy metals in a number of different brands of vitamins. There's also the whole deal with bioavaliblity, much easier to absorb vitamins from a natural source.

I also think its a bit funny that many vitamins have L and D-alpha Tocopherol (Vitamin E) when your body can only use the D arrangement. Of course, its cheaper when they only give you half of a product. They don't care about your health is what it comes down to. Personally too, I think as people get older they have a harder time eliminating wastes from their body and things tend to accumulate. If you're taking so many of these minerals in particular, I would think it would be a burden on your body. Too high a calcium intake can lead to kidney stones, and I think I've read, hardening of the arteries and high blood pressure. Copper, Iron, and Zinc are now thought to cause oxidative stress and possibly contribute to alzheimer's disease.

Personally, I just go with eating a lot of vegtables. I don't think we're at a point where we "know" what the best amount is per day of each nutrient. Vitamin D supplementation I just read might actually be harmful. www.sciencedaily.com...

So you might get psychological comfort from taking a vitamin or mineral everyday but really you could be doing your body a disservice. Common sense, but sometimes just sticking with nature is best. Eat healthy so you don't need to worry about supplements. Most people I would say aren't going to get sick from a lack of vitamins or minerals, but the high calorie carbs they eat everyday. A poor diet in no way is "patched up" by taking a pill.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by ghaleon12]



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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Well, folks, I'm the guinea pig on mega dosing. I'm going to find out for myself.

There is a Vitamin D3 post where I go into my adventures with mega dosing.

I have not come to any solid conclusions just yet, but I can say that mega dosing could very well have some positive effects. How about hernia improvement without surgery.

As far as negative side effects. Not sure yet. Need more time to see this experiment through.

Troy



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Just addressing your quote that herbs and vitamins work...that's what difference it makes to me. If you don't want to be challenged, then don't make sweeping generalities. Capiche?


hmmm, suppose you didnt read about my kids great great great grandmother.
We had 6 generations living until a few years back.

She was diagnosed with Colon Cancer in her 60's.
The doc gave her about a year to live and wanted to 'treat' her.

She said, "I dont wont your treatment"...
Well, she lived to 100/111. (not sure if she made the 111 birthday or not)

Oh and there is science behind herbs...read the med journals...

Lancet, Jama, Journal of science and nature, etc. You can search them online.

Also, the chinese used them (herbs) for 1000s of years...but lets forget them...
Its all about misuse and misunderstanding of herbs that cause accidents now days.
Its about people who dont understand about this topic and want their hands held and want regulation and not education because they dont want to take responsibility for themselves...yet they turn around and blame the gov when something goes wrong.


I see you are not to open minded on this. I have my proof, but you have yours.

As I said, if it works for you great, but dude...chill out, herbs are working for others here.


Peace

dAlen

[edit on 29-3-2008 by dAlen]



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 05:56 AM
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I am thinking of trying the little blue pills. They have nice commercials.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by dAlen
I see you are not to open minded on this. I have my proof, but you have yours.
As I said, if it works for you great, but dude...chill out, herbs are working for others here.


Read the thread, please. I am open minded on the subject. I am taking Essiac tea, zyflamend and other stuff on top of radiation treatment for prostate cancer. I am not disputing the story of your kids great, great, great grandmother. What I am saying is that there needs to be a standardization of the herbal products to ensure that the consumer is getting just what they pay for, at a potency that is consistant with what is to be expected.

Look up zyflamend...good example of an herbal product seeking clinical verification and peer review. That can only help forward the whole matter of alternative therapies. The FDA has been reduced to a political tool (see aspartame), but it can't be completely vilified. I don't think you want the food and drug industry to suddenly be completely deregulated in favour of a 'buyer beware' philosophy.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by ghaleon12
Eat healthy so you don't need to worry about supplements. Most people I would say aren't going to get sick from a lack of vitamins or minerals, but the high calorie carbs they eat everyday. A poor diet in no way is "patched up" by taking a pill.




i'd like to point out that this might be next to impossible, for two reasons, namely

soil depletion

and a marked lack of ripe fruit in your diet, deprivng you of

essential sugars

see also www.ifoundhealth.com... , but i recommend you search for yourself.


i agree one should be wary of any supplement's quality, but that does not mean that more natural variants are automatically worse. what i do know, though is that big pharma can easily make rules, which would effectively outlaw naturally derived ingredients (ie. PLANTS, eh), requirements, f-ex. a plant won't be completely uniform (or sterile, for that matter) and people in this thread have already given good examples, what happens if that approach fails. banning individual ingredients until nothing is left.

finally, a case which was abused by the FDA to ban a naturall ocurring Amino Acid from supplements:

www.aquarianonline.com/Eco/UnnaturalHarvest.html

(please do not add http tag, i would like to keep robot visibility down to a minimum)

GMOs to blame, though. i still maintain that GMOs would have been straight outlawed if only people had understood in time...

[edit on 29.3.2008 by Long Lance]



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by eradown
 


It is not only OD , but side effects and interactions. It is not as rare as you think. And the regulation i think of, will not mean "Prohibition" of this supplements. Just the info that the firm will stand behind, and updates. Also TRUE concentrations will be nice. And how much is absorbed in the guts from multi-component supplements...
But since it costs a lot money, "Natural" companies do not bother them self with it. This is why Hipericum, Kava Kava and other similar plants are no longer there. My suggestion - these firms have to create some kind of union that will stand behind their claims and provide the regulation. FDA getting it will seriously damage this industry, as some one noted.
Education will of course be great, but a person has to be kind of Leonardo de Vinci to be educated in all the different aspects of our society. Not to mention constantly tracking all the updates and their sources. And certain herbs can help more then certain drugs on rare occasions. Pharmacy industry is not going to develope a drug based on well known and working plant ingredient when patent can not be gained. $$$$$$$
It will go for something else (might be less potent/more toxic) where money could be made.
As an example for why this regulation is needed could be seen on this board - person going to OD on vitamin D, which is known to make a serious problems in those cases. Where from can he be educated about not doing it?
I will advise strongly not to do it. This is the link for known case
of Vitamin D intoxication (to a child):
pediatrics.aappublications.org...
Hypercalcaemia:
en.wikipedia.org...
Vitamins/minerals/herbs are not cure to all and are not always safe.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
What I am saying is that there needs to be a standardization of the herbal products to ensure that the consumer is getting just what they pay for, at a potency that is consistant with what is to be expected.

The FDA has been reduced to a political tool (see aspartame), but it can't be completely vilified. I don't think you want the food and drug industry to suddenly be completely deregulated in favour of a 'buyer beware' philosophy.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]


I believe I see where your coming from.

Yes, I would indeed agree that it would be great to see a standardization in herbal medicine. In fact, I would love to see a standardization in what is taught as a base course in all the natural schools...worldwide.

Its a shame that there are not more schools of the caliber of the naturopathic colleges in Arizona and Washington. (Who are 2 of the 4 accredited colleges in the U.S. to put out 'legit' naturopathic doctors.)

Im not against the other schools, etc...but it would be nice to see a standard, comprehensive base of learning...

But to do this, you have to come to a consensus - which comes with scientific research to more fully understand the nature and properties of the plants. (And I will say, tradition goes a long ways in starting such a project...if its a 1000+ years old tradition, you have a good base in which to start the scientific aspect of the research.)

It is disappointing to the degree that this knowledge is not evenly taught outside of these 2 U.S. schools mentioned. (Im sure China has some great schools...)
And with that I would say that a comprehensive course would give one at least access to all the major herbal traditions of the world. (Indian, Chinese, etc.) Of course you probably major in just one and focus on it depending on your location...but to have access to the other knowledge is grand indeed.

However...

The FDA is by no means the organization meant to do this.
They may have a light (and that light may be to show people how to escape from them), but seriously they have to many vested interest which are wrapped around the almighty $$$.

Of course, this could go for anything, including herbals as well.

It would be my 'dream' to see a world that isnt approaching only a physical holistic approach, but a 'spiritual' one as well. (That word is overused...call it a healthy mental outlook or whatever.)

Without getting past the root of the problems, which manifest in the physical...and this is complex on many layers, then we will be stuck in the mess we currently have...or pervert that which is meant to be good.

Understanding to recognize the ego, is the first and primary step to doing this.
As I mention quite frequently, Eckhart Tolle is one of the people who is great at pointing out how to get 'properly grounded'...practical knowledge vs. something to add to your beliefs. (I always recommend audio books as it helps to hear the person to really get the point and feel whats happening. When I listened to him it cleared up some misunderstanding I had from just reading the text.)

But, here we are now...and we deal with what we have.
So here and now I would say do the research and get a standardization...in the meantime allow those who already know or are researching, access to that which they want access to. - Dont cut off one part of nature because someone else isnt ready for it, per say. - The term cutting off nature sounds so...un-natural doesnt it.


If I want Ephedra and Kava, give it to me.

Again, the indigenous people of China and the south pacific dont have a problem.
But here is a key...this is not to be flippantly used - just being Chinese doesnt mean you know how to use the herb...or that your diet doesnt have contraindications in it.

And this is the case with Ephedra...and any herb...you mix with alcohol and synths...you will pay the price. (As some have.)

Again, its buyer be ware...and it may be that most people should just wait for the FDA...if they dont wait, they are to blame...not the herb.

I understand that there are those making rampant claims about stuff...and in truth they should just go away. But that kind of thing really is obvious, but I suppose to some it isnt. (Reminds me of my great great grandmother and others into the t.v. evangelist who ask for their retirement checks shamelessly.)

But I suppose everything has a reason and a time. Life is here to experience and learn, not sure we can be left in the infant stage forever, what good does that do?
(Does not mean not to take action by warning your loved ones etc. about something, but at the end of the day they will have to make a choice no matter what the FDA or anyone says.)

Hope this is a bit clear.
Again, it appears we are talking along the same lines now.

Just a note...Im not against synthetics, I just would not use them.
If I did use them, I would definitely not combine them with natural medicine...(or use extreme caution if I did), as there are quite a few contraindications between synths and natural - I have seen in the medical journals that this (combination) can cause serious issues/death.

When I say I would not use them, its not with disdain.
For me its a simple fact that we have not yet mastered mother nature (so it would seem) and yet we are already trying to 'go beyond'.

Notice all the side affects with synthetics? Most of them seem worse than the problems that come with the disease or makes more problems than what its worth.

It seems it would be best to master that which is 'more gentle' - nature - then move on to becoming 'gods'. (when I say 'more gentle' it means when herbs are taken how they are supposed to be and not combined with the wrong ingredients, including other herbs.

Peace

dAlen



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 

Most vitamins come with correct dosages on their labels. I am tired of the few who abuse products being given the power to ban products.

If you visit a Wallmart or any grocery store in America you will see many tired overweight unhealthy looking people. They did not get that way from eating herbal and nutritional supplements. I know people who inspite of exercise and diet are not able to lose weight. They are slowly being poisoned to death by the hormones which are being fed to the livestock they eat.For instance, I no longer chicken because everytime I would eat one measily baked chicken breast I would gain five pounds. Of course big pharma will not dare attack big poultry because big pharma makes most of its money off chemo therapy and cancer has been linked to obesity.

People need more control over what they eat this legilsation is designed take away even more of what little control average people have over what goes into their bodies. For the sake of the evil people and the stupid people working for big pharma I will fight this legislation. Those poor sons of dogs who work for big pharma have accumulated more karmic debt than they can pay down. Gods laws are clear we must suffer what we send out in the world.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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I see I am like-minded in this thread


dAlen, your posts are excellent. It does indeed make a difference what one eats, and fast food alone is not the problem. I tried for a short time eating only fast food when I first started driving a truck. It was readily available, cheap, and of course, fast. It also sapped my strength and stamina, and gave me indigestion problems.

I think I'm a slow learner sometimes, but after a while I finally got the idea that it was well worth the time and dollars to actually sit down in a restaurant and eat actual food once in a while. Apparently our bodies were not designed to handle large amounts of synthetic meat substitute and yellow plastic 'vegetable oil spread'. Strange, I know, but true.


As for the obesity concern, I can't place it all on fast food or McDonalds (which is technically not fast food, since I doubt they use food in it
). Some of the blame has to be laid at the doorstep of a society which is constantly moving at a fast and faster pace. The stress placed upon people in their everyday life has some scientific merit as a suspect in causing obesity.

TheRedneck





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