I think that the main reason most of the music these days is garbage, is the motivation of musicians. Back in the 60's, the best rock music of all time was written imo. And I think this is because they were all speaking out for the youth/anti-war/pro-consciousness movement...they all had a message and a cause that they were trying to communicate to everyone using music. Nowadays, there are many people who go into recording, just hoping to make it big off of that one hit single. Generally, there isn't any cause for the music, other than looking for money...most of the mainstream music I hear. There are still a good amount of musicians out there who are speaking about peace and other issues, which is what I like to hear, but unfortunately they don't get much air time...only the songs with catchy beats make singles now...and the average youth's music exploration basically amounts to whatever is on the radio or on mtv.

[edit on 2-10-2005 by Shoktek]

i was born much after the 60's but yet my favorite music is music from the 50's-70's and cant stand how most music today all they sing (well yell) about is how terrible the world is or drugs sex and alchohal and so on hopfully their will be a new trend of music that comes up that will make it better

Just a thought:

The most "original" music seems to come from psychedelic drug users.

Why is that?

(please note: The Best music Artists almost always died "young".)

The psychologist's explanation for that is simply that psychedelic drugs stimulate the creativity portion of the brain...basically you expand consciousness, and you are flooded with so many more thoughts that otherwise would never enter your head..or if they did, you wouldn't be able to draw certain things from those thoughts, or analyze them to the extent that you can after taking a substance.

Music and drugs in general go with each other hand in hand almost...

It is interesting to listen to all of the 60's music speaking of peace, love, etc...when I believe all the best music was made. This is when most people were using psychedelic drugs, which helped create this music. But then the end of the 60's and the movement were marked by deaths of revolutionary figures and musicians, and a definite shift in drug use. People stopped expanding their minds, and started shooting up and burning out basically. Then later in the 70's when disco came around, most people started using cocaine...the music lacked substance from that time, but had nice catchy dance beats, perfect for a cocaine high. Interesting to think about...

Santana's band in the late 60's was rumored to always perform very high on acid. This might explain the awesome improvisations that made up their concerts, with the most intense, beautiful, and shattering solos on the guitar, drums, and keyboard. Santana was later interviewed, and he talked of his LSD usage. He said that when you take it and play guitar, it is as if you are channeling music from a spirit radio station...he said that his playing while on acid was much better than normal, and that he would listen to recordings of said playing, and couldn't believe how much better he sounded. He also mentioned his face grimaces while playing, as his guitar turned into an "electric snake" that he had to tame. And I have also heard "if you want to learn to play guitar in one day, drop acid and start playing".

[edit on 3-10-2005 by Shoktek]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Facefirst, I don't think anyone will deny there is some quality music that is also mainstream.
What is troubling is the amount of non-quality music being sprewed from the mainstream record producers. It is absurd to think mainstram record producers cannot find talented musicians.

The real point, and the possible conspiracy, is why aren't they recording talented musicians?
Thye don't need an American Idol program to find talent.
I have to assume talent is either being ignored or talent has given up trying to catch the eye of an uninterested recording industry.

There is no conspiracy here. They are not always looking for talent. They are looking for profit.
The record industry is a business. They are driven to make money firstly.

There seems to be a romantic view of the past taken by several posters in this thread. The music business has always been driven with an M.O. of "Profit first, talent second." It is not a matter of the "product" being of high artistic value, it is a matter of if the public is going to buy the product.

That is how they think. ie: producers, executives, A&R, etc, etc. and some musicians are guilty of thinking that way too.

Every now and then, an artist comes along and completely turns everything upside down. Then all of the labels try to go and find their own version of that "hot commodity." It has nothing to do with "art." It has to do with formula. Here's a good example: When Bod Dylan took off in the early to mid sixties, most of the record labels scrambled to find their own "Dylan" which led to a slew of really bad singer-songwriters who should have not been signed or even performing in the first place.

Same thing with the Ska and Swing craze in the 90's. A couple of bands had a few hits in those genres so labels started signing many of those kinds of bands because their value was high and considered potentially profitable. It is almost like the stock market. Where are those band's now? 99.9% of them were dropped from their labels when it was clear there was not a large enough market or mass public interest for high profits.

But all is not lost. Trust me, every single record executive I know is looking for the next Jimi or the next Prince or Led Zeppelin or Miles Davis. They want that bad. Though half the time, those people are not recognized by the industry. Jimi was a poor, starving guitar player on the Chitlin' ciruit for years before Chas Chandler saw the potential and took the time and money to invest/promote him.
Before that, Jimi couldn't pay the rent and nobody knew who he was......

John Hammond Sr. was a good example of person in the business who were always looking for talent. And when he found that talent, he made sure it got all the exposure it deserved. And from Mr. Hammond, we have Billie Holiday, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Charlie Christian, Bob Dylan, George Benson, Aretha, Bruce Springsteen, Count Basie etc etc etc. Though Hammond is the "Babe Ruth" of talent scouts, there are other John Hammonds out there. They want to help. Trust me.

I am babbling at this point, but I have been in the industry for years. There is no "conspiracy" here. The music business is really just that F***d up. Always has been and probably always will be. Though the whole business model is changing mainly due to technology and the internet. We are currently in a state of major flux and everyone is still adjusting. Change of this magnitude doesn't just happen overnight. It takes a long time. If you told me 15 years ago that I could churn out a world class sounding record from my bedroom or garage because of computers, I would have looked at you like your crazy. But, that is now being done all the time. That is now the norm. Incredible, isn't it?

The future is wide open and I look forward to hearing the new talent on the horizon. It's out there, you just gotta keep your ears open.

~Face




[edit on 16-10-2005 by Facefirst]

I would say that the majority of the music in the mainstream is not challenging because the record companies simply want more fo what sells. Music is becomeing more and more about profitability, rather than artistic integrity. But, thankfully, you will always be able to find artists making challenging and complicated music that is revolutionary in it's nature, and people will buy their albums. A few examples of modern bands pushing the envelope:

Radiohead
Bjork
Squarepusher
Wilco
Bright Eyes
The Anticon Collective
Dose One
CLOUDDEAd
Gillian Welch
Buck 65
Atmosphere
Elbow
The Doves
Grandaddy
System of a Down
Tool

In fact, a friend of mine who studied viola performance at Julliard took a music theory course, and in the class, they discussed how three modern rock/pop musicians have been inducted into the "evolution" of music theory, and are taught as a part of the curiculum. The professor explained they were three groups who had started doing something with music theory that had never been done before, in any genre of music, and they studied their work. The three groups were The Who, the Talking Heads, and Bjork. So all hope is not lost. With the advent of technology, and the ability of bands to make high quality recordings with extremely low budgets, and the internet as such a huge market to expose your music to for very little cost, I think we're on the cusp of another musical renaissance. But to find the good music, like with any art form, you have to sort through a lot of terrible music.

there are many talented musicians in the field maybe more than ever. the problem is that people lack the patience and labor-intensive capability of finding it. just like most good things, relevant music is below the surface and not readily available to mainstream observers. the important question is not whether there are talented musicians but what are there intentions. are they serving the same old counterculture bull*&$# or are they digging deeper to provide a solution, as far music can provide one.

to add to Garden Spider's list

Modest Mouse
The Dandy Warhols
Immortal Technique
absolutely NOT Green Day(what a joke)

Does anybody know Larouche? if you do then this will make since; music is used as a means of preparing a postnuclear population. the counterculture of the sixties most definitely did nothing expect use drugs, further sexual indulgence, and label every longhaired anti-establishment type as a pothead. they did stand up and oppose but they really did nothing; we are in a much worse state than before. I can see the Establishment using music, literature, and other outlets of non-conformist influence to make a certain minority strong but deprive them of the most necessary factors needed to rise up; focus with militant persistent

There are talented musicians out there, you just have to dig deeper for it, rather than turning on your radio and be force fed (what I would call) utter crap.

Sadly, music isn't about music anymore, it's about one's attractiveness.

Being a musician myself, it's very hard to make it big because of all the more 'good looking' talentless idiots. - I can't even bring myself to call them musicians..

The underground music scene here in Yorkshire is absolutely amazing though.

well if there is a conspiracy in music

it would be all the music that is written in a time signature so easy to digest

well, we'll just poo it right out again like our blessed heart pumps but in the toilet it belongs

oh this 4/4 business has entered the bloodstream alright,

and does nothing to represent the ultimate creative chaos of the universe, nor our connection

and yet this music will probably always hit home because perhaps it all relates to the comfort of hearing our mother's persevering heartbeat in the womb, or just our own

well I say don't worry about your own heartbeat now think about your breath, the heartbeat makes you happy but the breath'll keep the trees from death the breath'll welcome a scent of fresh flowers all in your own time

and what is music for really

We do this deadpulse unconsciously, we get together in a group with manufactured instruments and begin to play with a dead pulse

where are the little elves leaping giant arches between instruments tying it all in a big knot then throwing us over a cascading waterfall

and I've played so much I'm darn sick now every time I play I'm just breaking out all the time why stay in time it's agonising I'll do my own thing where the wind goes that's me, who's coming! and every one looks at me and they think I'm pants in the wind

and I am

By golly we may as well have based time signatures following the Pi sequence and the structure of music could try to emulate a perfect circle for instance

that sounds interesting but would it sound interesting

...so I'm getting desperate ok?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!???

no a watered down wine'll be just fine

I must be missing something,

I'm just saying follow the beat like you'll never catch it but don't beat yourself to death if you can't either

all in all it's very comfortable to listen to because we can predict the beats and it's no longer an adventure,

and when someone listens to a new adventure they don't like it and want to go back to the womb of 4/4, 6/8, 333333/4272452 whatever. what are you hiding from society yes society is uncomfortable music's your cocoon but I don't want the same wings as you I know well let's destroy that just like 4/4 it's so human and orderly ewww like a big old road in mother nature


away with time signatures,
away with time!
music is out there
so start from scratch
and chalk up a boat
then chop off your rope
and paint your own stars n' seas
by golly,
be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.................






this is what happens see I don't know why I do this because time signatures are good really

Personally I think today's metal is great. But give me classic rock over that any day!

I think the cause stems from the dumbing down of America.

The more chemicals and prescription drugs we ingest, the dumber we become. There are so many people on prescription antidepressants, it's scary. And these meds turn people into zombies who lack any creativity.

Hidden chemicals are placed in the food supply that make people sick and depressed, which is why they have to go on the meds.

This makes sense also when you see how the mainstream media pushes such terrible mindless music on us that lacks inspiration. Most of the medicated population accepts it as "today's music". Those who are not yet medicated have to go underground to find real stuff.

i recently got a chance to see one of my all time favorite performers-ALICE COOPER he played with queensryche (another band i really like) and black sabbath (with dio). it was amazing. so at least some of the classic bands are still around. David gilmour is still making music and he was one of the better members of pink floyd. i just wish that jim morrison was still alive.

some current bands that have talent:

Radiohead
Muse
He Is Legend
the Flaming Lips
Coheed and Cambria (look into the sci fi story the band revolves around-amazing!)
the Cure
Blue Man Group

just search around and you'll find some good bands still out there

All i have to say is jam on .. 17

the weaker america is, the easier it is to DECEIVE!

THese children today are morons, they rave, they dance, they do the wild thing. All while these corporate and criminal masters laugh at us as our parentals are absent from life too. This world is a joke entirely, both perpetrator and victim are a joke upon themselves. The true vision is from an experienced and humble aspect. Not from any paradigmical viewpoint, but from the general understanding of many. That is what elitists wish to erase, understanding.

Wow....first off, a massive thanks to everyone who has posted band names....i think its time to start adding to my music collection :-)

Secondly, i was a massive Prince fan in the late 80's, i just thought, and still do, that he was a musical genius.
Around the same time, i discovered Pink Floyd, Dylan and Frank Zappa.
Dylan was really good, but the other two....fantastic. The guitar solos alone make their albums worth listening to.
I think there was a Zappa song called Watermelons In Easter hay....that was beautiful.
I often whinge to my kids that they will never know the power and emotion a song can have, if all they listen to is the mainstream stuff thats around today.

Originally posted by Slayer

They [metallica] did inaugerate a new era in musical history - they invented thrash metal, which led to modern metal.

?!

Didn't Kirk Hammett come from Exodus, a much better and earlier thrash metal band?
Also, Metallica's first album was like, in '83 right? That's when the first blast beat was ever recorded, and Lars still can't do one! Metallica got lucky and were catchy enough to popularize a style of msuic. But in no way did they invent it. Let alone Slayer (your moniker no less), Possessed, Death, MegaDeth (Dave Mustaine is another star that Metallica kicked to the curb), Venom, and many others were around the same time and even before Metallica was.

edit: spelling

[edit on 9/30/2007 by Arcane Demesne]