Did Jesus exist?, page 3
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reply posted on 27-11-2004 @ 07:26 PM by cavscout
Hope this helps, I am working on getting a link to the site it came from, I just saved the text.


Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths, Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."

It is believed by some scholars that Tactius gained his information about Christ from official records, perhaps actual reports written by Pilate. Tactius also wrote about the burning of the Jerusalem temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. The Christians are mentioned as a group that were connected with these events. "All we can gather from this reference is that Tactius was also aware of the existence of Christians other than in the context of their presence in Rome," states Habermas. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian, wrote, "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the City." Chrestus is a variant spelling of Christ. Suetonius refers to a wave of riots that broke out in a large Jewish community in Rome during the year 49 A.D. As a result, the Jews were banished from the city.

Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, a member of a priestly family and who became a Pharisee at the age of 19, became the court historian for Emperor Vespasian. In the Antiquities, he wrote about many persons and events of first century Palestine. He makes two references to Jesus. The first reference is believed associated with the Apostle James. "...he brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." He also wrote, "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D.

Before Tacitus, Suetonius or Josephus, Thallus wrote about the crucifixion of Jesus. His writing date to circa 52 A.D. and the passage on Jesus was contained in Thallus' work on the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to 52 A.D. Thallus noted that darkness fell on the land at the time of the crucifixion. He wrote that such a phenomenon was caused by an eclipse. Though Christ was not proclaimed a deity until the fourth century, Pliny the Younger, a Roman author and administrator who served as the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor, wrote in 112 A.D., two hundred years before the "deity" proclamation, that Christians in Bithynia worshipped Christ.

Two references have been made to a report by Pontius Pilate. The references include Justin Martyr (150 A..D.) and Tetullian (200 A.D.). Both references correspond with the fact that there was an official document in Rome from Pilate. The Pilate report detailed the crucifixion but also reported acts of miracles. Emperor Tiberius acted on Pilate's report, according to Tertullian, to the Roman Senate. "Tiberius accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from Palestine of events which had clearly shown the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favor of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all accusers of the Christians."




reply posted on 27-11-2004 @ 07:35 PM by cavscout
For some reason I couldn’t edit a link into my last post...strange.

Anyway,
here it is. It was under this site, an article called Proving the Historic Jesus. It doesn’t seem to be there anymore, or at least the religion link is down or something, but I can post the entire article if anyone wants it.


reply posted on 28-11-2004 @ 06:40 PM by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "The Jesus of history is much different to myth that has been created surrounding him. The account we have from the the chuch and Hollywood have become a farce, try and find one mention in the Bible of Jesus being born in a stable...

You can't cause there isn't one...

The real Jesus was a Judean prince, deposed by the romans, and backed by an influencial group of activists including prominent members of the Abaithar, Zadock preisthoods and the Samaritan Magi (remember the three wise men), he tried to unite jews and gentiles together to throw off the Roman oppression. He cheated death on the cross, and later had a family with his wife Mary Magdelene, he missioned across the ancient world eventually following in the footsteps of Phillip settling in India where he is remembered as the Prophet Isa by the muslims, he died in Srinigar where his tomb is still venerated today...

He was a husband, a father, a visionary, a teacher, a healer and a leader of men...

He was a great man who never deserved to have his life turned into some kind of weird sideshow...

Why can't people have a little respect..."

DontTreadOnMe - Can't you see that this is the ROOT of THE CONSPIRACY? Are you not amazed by the sheer number of people that want to put words into Jesus' Mouth & Define his Actions & Intentions. Jesus has Pharaoh like Authority - hence the desire to Twist & Distort. The Battle is for the very DEFINITION of the "Christian Religion" & with it comes Tremendous Power - just look at the U.S. Presidential Election we just had!!!

U.S. "Christians" have "Perceived" G. W. Bush to be one of them -a "Christian" - so they Voted for him & gave him the Election by 2% of the Popular Vote - Bush is now Euphoric & calling this a "Mandate" for his Agenda!!!
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