Hmm, I recall I was supposed to take a stance on the view point of believing that this object out in space was real. The main point of my argument would be that science and astrophysics has such drowned out any possiblity of it being out that that we really don't see the object out there. But then again I'm not a big believer, but certain that may hold something to those that do believe in it.

Just throwing it out for thought

Great post,

There is a loot of disinfo going around about Nibiru. I think "Plane of the Crossing" might be the most accurate translation. This would make the most sense in accordance with Maya 2012 prophecy as many others have also correlated.

Myth- Nasa has photgraphed Nibiru
Fact- Incorrect, the photo actually turned out to be a new type of galaxy. The media misinterpreted the finding as an extra planet in our solar system

unless you have access to Nasa's database you can't possibly make this claim.

How about a little truth for once...

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Fact- According to astronomers, eliptical orbits are highly unstable. Chances are that if there was a planet in such an orbit would either revert to a circular orbit as it nears the sun, or fly off somewhere into space due to the distance from the sun

Fact: All orbits are eliptical.

Myth- Nasa has photgraphed Nibiru
Fact- Incorrect, the photo actually turned out to be a new type of galaxy. The media misinterpreted the finding as an extra planet in our solar system

There is no way that you can claim this to be a 'fact'.

Myth- Nibiru can be seen from the South Pole, that is the reason for the new observatory
Fact- If Nibiru can be photgraphed from the South Pole, it would be able to be viewed from the ENTIRE southern hemisphere (where I live). According to my work colleagues down at the 3 weather stations we have down there, there is nothing unsual in the sky. The new telescope down there is because the unique atmospheric conditions in Antarctica give extremely good pictures of the cosmos. And due to this quality, it is replacing the hubble telescope

Your supposed friends are irrlevant.

Nibiru is also irrelevant. There are comets down there. The bad kind. The kind that terrified our ancestors. Comets are basically planets with very elliptical orbits. They don't crash into us... and they don't NEED to to cause problems.. Most planets were comets at one time and basically still are - IE Venus. Venus caused hell on Earth for a long time.

We are part of (at least) a binary star system, which is the real reason for precession. It is probably the Sirius system. Calculations of precession speeding up show that we reached apoapsis (farthest point of orbit - speed decreases to this point, and then accelerates for the second half of the orbit (12,000 years)).. we reached that approximately 500 AD.

The speed of light is constant, but not relative to the observer. There IS 'absolute motion'. we (our solar system) are moving between 300-400 km/s in a south direction.

Sirius is no longer "RED" for obvious reasons.

Myth- Nibiru is a Brown Dwarf and has a race of people/aliens called Annukai living on/ near it
Fact- Most of the pro Nibiru posters claim Nibiru is a brown dwarf star. Any race on a planet near a brown dwarf star wouldnt survive as there is not enough heat emitted. There is some UV radiation but no where near enough to support life. It is also impossible for them to live on it due to the mass of the star crushing any living thing on it

Uh huh. This is a fact? You are mixing several comments together. You say any race on a planet near a brown dwarf star wouldn't survive.

Jupiter is a brown dwarf. Saturn is a brown dwarf. We've been a lot closer to these planets in the past, particularly Saturn. Particularly since Earth was part of the Saturn system, which intersected and was absorbed by the Solar system.

Take a look at the inclinations of the planets, start thinking 3D, and THINK.

Most of everything you hear out there is complete rubbish, it's true. But the truth is out there.

But these phony psuedo-skeptics just throw out even more rubbish to confuse everyone.

POP conspiracy theorists have it all wrong. They serve a purpose. Usually they tell you to be good and meditate and too bad for those that dont. In other words, the same as the extremist versions of the christian church, which just so happen to be allianced with the opressive and evil states.

And you disinformation crews are wasting your time, and are on the wrong side of history, in more ways than one.

Remember the obvious question you used to ask the teacher in Sunday School? Get with it.

[edit on 1-4-2008

[edit on 1-4-2008 by JoeTheThird]

Myth- Nasa has photgraphed Nibiru
Fact- Incorrect, the photo actually turned out to be a new type of galaxy. The media misinterpreted the finding as an extra planet in our solar system

There is no way that you can claim this to be a 'fact'.

Well there's certainly no way you can claim NASA has photographed Nibiru!!!!!

Comets are basically planets with very elliptical orbits.

No, they are not basically planets at all.

We are part of (at least) a binary star system

There is no evidence to support this idea. Only conjecture.

It is probably the Sirius system.

If we're in a binary system wouldn't be more likely to be with a star somewhat closer than Sirius? After all, the binary system Alpha/Proxima Centauri is a lot closer to us than Sirius .....

You say any race on a planet near a brown dwarf star wouldn't survive.

He means on a planet orbiting a Brown Dwarf

Jupiter is a brown dwarf. Saturn is a brown dwarf.

No they are not. Neither are any where near massive enough. They are planets.

We've been a lot closer to these planets in the past, particularly Saturn.

We've never been any closer than we are now. And besides, we orbit the Sun - which is not a Brown Dwarf - so it's wholly irrelevant.

Particularly since Earth was part of the Saturn system, which intersected and was obsorbed by the Solar system.

I never realised this was the science fiction section .....

Originally posted by djcloudy
Great post,

There is a loot of disinfo going around about Nibiru. I think "Plane of the Crossing" might be the most accurate translation. This would make the most sense in accordance with Maya 2012 prophecy as many others have also correlated.

The mayan count doesnt expire for another 300 years, and is irrelevant. Things are happening right now. The count that you accept as the truth doesn't even match their eclipse tables up with actual eclipses, which can be done quite easily.

Think of it: We give them credit for devising the most acurate pre-historic calander system in the history of the universe, yet don't think they can correctly account for eclipses.

This doesn't even take into acount the fact that the number of days in an earth orbit has changed several times (increasing) in the past several thousand years. They didn't consider the tacked on 5 days unlucky for nothing.

You all need to go back and read the 'Enuma Elish' again for yourselves, and other such work, forget aliens, and realize that our people WATCHED these things happen in horror and are crying out to us from the past.

Originally posted by Essan

Myth- Nasa has photgraphed Nibiru
Fact- Incorrect, the photo actually turned out to be a new type of galaxy. The media misinterpreted the finding as an extra planet in our solar system

There is no way that you can claim this to be a 'fact'.

Well there's certainly no way you can claim NASA has photographed Nibiru!!!!!

well neener neener poo poo on you!

It is probably the Sirius system.

If we're in a binary system wouldn't be more likely to be with a star somewhat closer than Sirius? After all, the binary system Alpha/Proxima Centauri is a lot closer to us than Sirius .....

Reality is more likely than anything that you think would work better.

I never realised this was the science fiction section .....

Call NASA for that

Anyway, I advise everyone to research what I've said, and research it very hard.

The folks who killed those who said that the sun was at the center never lost power, and they've been rather successful since.

They lie. A lot.

Do you really think that the ancients were horrified by flying snowy puff balls?

Remember that these people will tell you
"It isn't raining, because that violates LAW #89432
Rain = 89348.3434 * V^9 (GR) / BLAH
(AND ALL REAL SCIENTISTS KNOW THIS LAW IS LAW, OTHERWISE THEY WOULDNT GET MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO AGREE WITH EACH OTHER)"

And this while you both drown


[edit on 1-4-2008 by JoeTheThird]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
It seems as though there are many ous ATS'ers out here that think the entire Nibiru/Planet X theory is utter crap.

And so it is!

We people have never been able to predict the end of times (lucky for us) within a decade; let alone by a specific date (21-12-2012). I'm sure we came close at some time without us even knowing about it. Yeah and what is "close"; maybe an killer-astroid missed us by 1,000,000,000 miles; which is pretty close in astronomic terms.

Anyway; I wish us long and healthy lives!

Good thread!

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Alienmojo

You lost me here. When has the book of Genesis EVER been 'debunked'?

Depends on what you mean. The Book of Genesis has been shown by Biblical scholars to be an amalgamation of stories written by 4 different people. Some of these stories may well be based on actual events. In some cases 2 conflicting stories have been combined into one (how many animals did God tell Noah to take on the ark?

First off, thank you for not writing back anything mean or derogatory about what I said. I do appreciate that.

Second, what you said made me think about how several people can view something and tell a similar, but different tale. The important thing IS the tale or event. In this case its not so important what animals went on the ark, but that in fact there was an ark and a flood. Is it important that Moses alone wrote these books? No, what is important is that it is held as the inspired word of God. So it doesn't really matter how many wrote the stories or whether they completely mimic each other. What is important is that the stories survived basically unchanged since they were written and there is evidence to support them as truth.

Now, there may not be great evidence... but there is STILL evidence! We have the Dead Sea Scrolls for comparison, archeology, and shuttle photos. Not so in the case of Nibiru where there is no astronomical data that is inclusive to its existence...at least IMHO. I would love to be shown some though.

I do realize there are those that say the flood story has been told in many religions and isn't supposed to be taken literally, however I have seen evidence pointing to an 'ark' on a mountain top that people (or soldiers if I remember right) would not let the archeologists approach.

Either way, an important thing to remember is how little the Bible has changed over the years as proven by the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I strongly feel there is more to the Bible than our human experience can explain away, even though many have tried.

Getting back to Nibiru however, I will say again that until there is some absolute truth and not some rheteric, spoken by Stichen or whoever, I will not believe this one bit. Do I think its possible? Maybe. I don't know enough about astronomy and physics to say. Mitchu Kaku might be the best person to ask that I can think of. Does anyone know his opinion about all this? I would be very interested to hear it... one way or the other. I still remain open to the possibility here, but not until I have better evidence. Sorry to have swayed a bit off topic here too. You guys are great and I love reading what you have to say...both pro and con!

OK Mogget, go for it. Let's see the calculations you have for Niburu's possible orbit path. I'm sure your disparaging the effort because you have some much more worthwhile and accurate equations, right?

If an object can pass through the inner Solar System every 3600 years, then it's orbit is highly elliptical (like that of a comet). Objects in elliptical orbits move faster when closer to the Sun, and slow down as they recede. Therefore, you can't just pick a number for the orbital velocity, and then easily work out how far it travels per day/month/year.

Actually, I could simulate the motion of such an object on my PC (using my Dance of the Planets software), but any gravitational force exerted by this object on the planets or Sun wouldn't be calculated.

Maybe someone could let me know the scheduled arrival date of Nibiru in the inner Solar System, and how close it is supposed to come to Earth ? That would allow me to work out exactly how far away the planet/star would be at this moment in time. I couldn't deduce where it would be located, since other information is required for that (orbital inclination, longitude of ascending node, argument of perihelion etc).

Also, there's a huge mass difference between a brown dwarf and a comet.

The only difference this would make to the orbital path of Nibiru would be the effect that it would have on the position of the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn measurably perturb the Sun, due to their considerable masses (this is taken into account in the calculations performed by Dance of the Planets), and the same would be true of any other massive object (particularly a failed star).

Also, wouldn't we be able to detect the gravitational field that affects Niburu?

If you mean, "would we be able to detect the effect of Nibiru's gravitational field on other Solar System objects?", then you are correct. In fact, that is the major stumbling block to the entire Nibiru/Planet X theory. Simply put, the effects of its gravity would have been detected already in the outer Solar System. In particular, a brown dwarf would cause absolute havoc, since it would be considerably more massive than Jupiter.

The fact that no such object has been seen (and no such gravitational effects have been detected) rules out the presence of a massive object on a trajectory of this kind.


[edit on 1-4-2008 by Mogget]

[edit on 1-4-2008 by Mogget]

[edit on 1-4-2008 by Mogget]

Originally posted by Mogget
In particular, a brown dwarf would cause absolute havoc, ince it would be considerably more massive than Jupiter.

The fact that no such object has been seen (and no such gravitational effects have been detected) rules out the presence of a massive object on a trajectory of this kind.

Absolutely

This mythical object is supposed to have been created at the same time as the known solar system (no creationist arguments please) so, with a period of 3600 years, how many orbits would it have completed by now?

There wouldn't be any planets left orbitting the sun if it existed in that supposed highly elliptical orbit.

I have no doubt we'll discover more large objects out there beyond Pluto but they'll be orbitting safely outside the known planets and possibly the cause of comets being perturbed into paths leading them to the inner planets.

I have no doubt we'll discover more large objects out there beyond Pluto, but they'll be orbiting safely outside the known planets, and possibly the cause of comets being perturbed into paths leading them to the inner planets.

Yes, I agree. The discovery of objects the size of Mars (or even Earth) beyond the Kuiper Belt would be very significant.

Originally posted by undo
Not sure what all that means, I'm just wondering why sitchin thinks the guys who studied the skies and listed the names of the planets and stars they saw, would lie about something like that?

Because Sitchin, the guy whose 'theory' is basically:

Aliens (who looked identical to humans but live 3,600 times longer because their planet's orbit is 3,600 times longer than Earth's), landed on Earth in a spaceship, built pyramids because they'd all failed their Boy Scout map-reading and navigation badges, and then proceeded to dig for gold using stone tools and bones because no-one could remember how to build a drill or mechanical excavator. After several thousand years they decided this was quite hard work. So then they raped a monkey slave and thus created humans. After which they argued a lot, fell out with one another (not surprising since they were all members of the same family) and fought petty wars and had love affairs the way you do in a third rate daytime soap opera. Then they all went home again

decided that rewriting what they said would sell more books than the rather more prosaic truth.

He made it all up. And the fools have been falling for it ever since.