NEWS: Trial of the Century? Palestinians Rest Case at World Court to End Israel's Security Wall

Update
Final arguments at The Hague wrapped up today, February 25th, from pro-Palestinian parties that the Security Barrier Wall was blocking the peace process in the Middle East. Yesterday's hearing saw Jordan stating thier oppositition to wall A total of 15 countries and organizations are participating in the hearings at The Hague, all of them sympathetic to the Palestinians. The United States and European countries are boycotting the hearings, following the example of Israel.

read story here
Declaring a close to proceedings, presiding judge Shi Jiuyong said "a date and time for the court to announce its rulings" would be set later. Any verdict will be merely advisory.


Can anything really be accomplished in a court in which the defendant refuses to show up? A 15-judge International Court of Justice, at The Hague in the Netherlands planned three days of hearings into the barrier starting today, with all of the participants expected to harshly criticize the fence. Nasser Al-Kidwa, chief of the Palestinian delegation, opened the Palestinian case against Israel's West Bank barrier. It is a landmark hearing bringing Israel's policies before an international tribunal for the first time.

"This wall is not about security. It is about entrenching the occupation and the de facto annexation of large areas of the Palestinian land," Al-Kidwa told the tribunal.
Israel, the United States and the European countries that oppose the court's intervention, refused to attend.
In its written arguments, Israel claimed the court has no authority over the matter. It says the dispute should be resolved through negotiations, and that taking the matter to court will undermine the U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan.
ap.tbo.com...



[Edited on 2-25-2004 by worldwatcher]

Been reading about this "security wall" for some time
now. Why does it not surprise me that the legal case
is to redefine the term.
"This wall is not about security."
And this "Al-Kidwa" clown is one of Osama's own
or is it just a similiarity in spelling.

/\/ight\/\/ing

Oh yes, a wall to keep them from blowing up civillians is soooooo oppressive. They should have the right to blow up as many jewish kids and women as possible.

Gee let me figure this out for a minute. the wall is built on Israeli territory or on disputed territory (whose country is it?),

so that people can protect themselves from being MURDERED!

the palestinians are not paying for it, nor enslaved to build it.

why the wall? so that Palestinians don't abuse their freedoms with disasterous results in future as in the past. Why do Palestinians care, because they want easy passage into Israel for jobs and to whatever they do there. Simple then don't go, let the Arab brother take care of you, he should do that, he is your brother after all in the eyes of allah!

Ho Hum, even the palastinians recognize the stupidity of it all....
Not only did they destroy their best chance by sending a suicide bomber, but they have left it too late...

news.independent.co.uk...

"I want you to make your voice heard to the International Court of Justice and the entire world," Mr Arafat said in a televised speech. But shopkeepers ignored calls for a one-hour strike and kept their shops open. Many pupils released from school to take part in the rallies went home instead. The roar of vehicles and the hustle and bustle of the market were louder than the sirens sounded for the occasion.

"People are asking themselves why the authority has waited so long to protest," said Ahmed Ibrahim, 31, who runs a restaurant near al Manara Square, where the demonstrators gathered. "It is too late." Ibrahim Khalayleh, a 19- year-old student, complained: "This rally cannot destroy the wall. We should have started fighting it when Israel laid down the first stone."

We should see and condemn this wall and see it as an further escalation and faliure in this dooms process!

I am not against Israel and surely not pro-violence, but de systematic degradation and humiliation of the Palestinian people and occupation of their land must come to a halt. Giving them back their self-respect and not treating them as second-rang humans will be a start.... for new negotiations.

I was at the International Court of Justice, The Hague, better known as "het Vredespaleis" (the peace palace) this morning. I saw deverse crowds in their eyes despair, anger but also hope, protesting and expressing their various opinions in peace. This as a fact is a promising development.

The only disgusting moment was when some pro-wall lobby people paraded around the bus of one of the last suicide attacks. A sick way to get empathy if you ask me!

Let me make one last thing clear: I DO CONDEMN ALL ACT'S OF TERROR PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI.

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by Hoaks]

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by Hoaks]

I remember the Jewish massacres at Jenin ( Gaza ) on 04-15-2003. First the IDF stated that NO MASSACURE had occurred, then they stated that "only" 56 Palestinian's had been murdered and they were all "terrorists" (including the women and children one presumes). Finally, when the UN insisted in sending in investigators in to get the true facts on this Jewish pogrom, the IDF killers high command stated that the UN investigators were "persona non-grata's at Jenin and Israel's partner-in-crime concurred!

Now our Jewish pals want the world court to "butt out" of their Apartheidnik/Racist BERLIN WALL argument with the Palestinians and of-course, their "co-conspirators in crime," the US NeoCon(men) concurr, once more!

TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.

Why was it disgusting? Because it forced you to achnowledge the death of innocent people who died in the bus?

Because it bought home the reality of the situation where the wall provided protection from senseless murders?

Granted the Israelis made a mistake in building the wall on palastinian land and not sticking to the green line, but the wall in itself is a solution forced on it by the current situation.

Originally posted by Hoaks
The only disgusting moment was when some pro-wall lobby people paraded around the bus of one of the last suicide attacks. A sick way to get empathy if you ask me!

Hahahaha, very interesting, Israel want's the world court to "butt out" and allow the principals negotiate this problem out.

Lemmie see: The ZioNazi's on one side with US supplied Apache helicopter gunships bristling with Hellfire/TOW antitank missiles, steel clad Merkava tanks and US supplied F-16J's on one side of the argument and the Palestinians's on the "other side of the argument" with stones, home made mortars and bared fists.

Isn't it just like the LIKUDNIK mass murderer Ariel Sharon to work out this "deal" ( Sounds as great a deal as the Clinton/Barak Camp David deal, "THE GREATEST DEAL Israel has ever offered the downtrodden Paly's huh folks?*

*Their own 1850's US style Indian reservations!

TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ.

No I didn't force me to acknowledge anything as I do not live as a "blind man" in general, and I do feel sympathy for the anger of victims relatives. But did I see any examples of Palestinian houses being brought down? Do palestinians have any busses....?
It's about the future not about a individual past or tragedy. I am just saying that it was ONLY the Isreali/anti-peace/wall lobby who had too resort to these pathetic media hungry extremely polarising stunts. Ofcourse I did see palestinians carry the pictures of victims too, but at least they didn't for example have to take the bloody clothes of their shot children and put them on clotheslines in front of the peace palace.


I have been in Israel a lot in the past, I have seen the difference.

Originally posted by Netchicken
Why was it disgusting? Because it forced you to achnowledge the death of innocent people who died in the bus?


[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Hoaks]

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Hoaks]

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Hoaks]

The AZCowboy your statement of:

I remember the Jewish massacres at Jenin ( Gaza ) on 04-15-2003.

amuses me. Were you not in a populated area with access to the news when even the UN itself admitted no Jenin "massacre" had taken place? A long excursion to the Antarctic with no connection to the real world is about the only excuse I could think of for someone using the Jenin joke as an argument.



EDIT - Here... straight from the horse's mouth and through a NON-American, NON-Israeli media outlet.

www.taipeitimes.com...

A long-awaited UN report rejects Palestinian claims that Israeli forces carried out a massacre in the Jenin refugee camp, but it criticizes both sides for putting civilian lives at risk, Western diplomats said.

Jenin, Jenin, Jenin, those horrible Israelis right? Even the #ing UN is better at placing the blame squarely on both sides than you are. Then again you proved your idiocy by having nothing more to say than "zionazis".

[Edited on 2-24-2004 by Djarums]

Originally posted by Hoaks
The only disgusting moment was when some pro-wall lobby people paraded around the bus of one of the last suicide attacks. A sick way to get empathy if you ask me!

As opposed to parading the body of a terrorist killed for shooting at Israeli civilians through the street with machine guns firing and encouraging the Palestinian citizens to "avenge this martyr".

Did you miss those?

Dear Djarums,

Starting off I didn't miss those, you missed the point.

Originally posted by Hoaks
The only disgusting moment was when some pro-wall lobby people paraded around the bus of one of the last suicide attacks. A sick way to get empathy if you ask me!

Let me make one last thing clear: I DO CONDEMN ALL ACT'S OF TERROR PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI.

Originally posted by Djarums
As opposed to parading the body of a terrorist killed for shooting at Israeli civilians through the street with machine guns firing and encouraging the Palestinian citizens to "avenge this martyr".

Did you miss those?

You are taking it out of context. At that point I was giving an objective eye witness report on the protests regarding the opening of the wall-case, in front of the "International Court of Justice", The Hague.

You are asking me to take stance? I already took it, look at Post Number: 393387. Netchicken question was founded and I awnsered.

Originally posted by Hoaks
No I didn't force me to achknowledge anything as I do not live as a "blind man" in general, and I do feel sympathy for the anger of victims relatives.

Please do not try to accuse me on a GENERALIZED anti-Israeli sentiment, there is non. Neither am I going to be provoked to any now or in the future to come.

At last I want to ask you, next time when you quote my posts please read ALL of them, and/or more carefully. Think about them for a minute before you reply.


Thank you,

Hoaks(NL)


.

Have you seen the proposed wall maps?

Here's the map (too big for this thread)

We can call them enclaves, or may we should call them ghettos.

The wall is absolutely ridiculous and it is remarkable to me that anyone could agree with the wall idea anywhere but on the greenline or in Israel's on property.

People would call Bush a Nazi and the world would be in an uproar is we tried to prevent 9-11's and car bombings by building a wall well into Mexican territory, to include surrounding cities.


[Edited on 24-2-2004 by KrazyJethro]

You commented on what Israeli protesters did, I responded to that. You can hardly expect anyone on here to research every post made by the thousands of members on this site before speaking. Give me a break. If that's not what you meant, great. Glad to hear you have a fair view of things. A pity that some other people don't.

Jethro, as for your point, you're right, bear in mind Mexico is a sovereign country.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Have you seen the proposed wall maps?

Here's the map (too big for this thread)

We can call them enclaves, or may we should call them ghettos.

The wall is absolutely ridiculous and it is remarkable to me that anyone could agree with the wall idea anywhere but on the greenline or in Israel's on property.

There have been a lot of maps published of the security fence. Unfortunately, many of them are inaccurate. Some are published for propaganda purposes to smear Israel, others are simply the result of confusion caused by multiple proposals and changing plans (don�t forget it is a government project.)

This map is the best and most recent I�ve been able to find.

Map of security fence.

Notice it actually follows the Green Line very closely.


[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Mycroft]

To say the least I am completly confused on this israel vs. palistine topic.There is plenty of evidence of both sides commiting outrages actions ...murder,genocide...whatever..they are both guilty to a point..

But from my open mind...I cannot be sure which side is the worst although I have previously leaned towards israel to being the worst of the two.

Its a big deal to me thats why even though i am pretty much against israel actions I know that the information we recieve is always biased.From all the evidense I have looked at it I have now decided that I cannot be against one nor the other .

Half of what is out there is propaganda for either side.

The point is, is that current Palestine is only 22% of it's pre1948 size. That is shameful in the extreme.

As to the war on terror, we should not back either country because they are both wrong.

Palestine is a terrorist state.

Israel is an oppresive and landgrabing state.

We should force them to create two same size (mostly) countries. Then they can build a huge wall and just deal with it.

Also, just because Palestine is not a sovern nation does not negate the rights of the Palestinians.

Originally posted by McGotti
To say the least I am completly confused on this israel vs. palistine topic.There is plenty of evidence of both sides commiting outrages actions ...murder,genocide...whatever..they are both guilty to a point..

But from my open mind...I cannot be sure which side is the worst although I have previously leaned towards israel to being the worst of the two.

Its a big deal to me thats why even though i am pretty much against israel actions I know that the information we recieve is always biased.From all the evidense I have looked at it I have now decided that I cannot be against one nor the other .

There is unbiased information, it's just hard to recognize if you don't already have a basic understanding of the history of the region.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Half of what is out there is propaganda for either side.

The point is, is that current Palestine is only 22% of it's pre1948 size. That is shameful in the extreme.

The problem when you say things like this is that the word �Palestine� is pretty vague, and describes hugely different regions of land at various points in history. If you go back as far as the British Mandate, �Palestine� described all of what is today Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and all of Jordan. The first division of land was when the British divided Palestine along the Jordan River and made Jordan an Arab only region. Jordan, the first Palestinian nation, is 80% of the land of �Palestine�.

Had the Arabs agreed to the UN partition plan, a second Palestinian nation would now control about 60% of what was left. They chose war instead.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Also, just because Palestine is not a sovern nation does not negate the rights of the Palestinians.

I tend to agree with this statement. For example, Palestinians who have been living in Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon three or four generations should have rights of citizenship instead of being kept in refugee camps. Jordan has been pretty good about this, but what about the others?

As far as national rights, I tend to agree there too. But those kinds of rights also come with responsibilities. If Arafat had kept up with the Oslo plan, a second Palestinian nation would have been formed in 1998 and would be almost six years old now.