Gore's Message to Climate Change deniers

reply to post by budski


TT

I hate you. Quit making this harder on me!

[edit on 28-3-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by Sublime620


Thats the point mate - al gore is trying to paint as nut jobs anyone who disagree's with him.

If he does it to others, doesn't that also make him fair game?

If us nut jobs don't speak out against his money making schemes, who will?

Am I a nut job just because I won't buy his book or his latest DVD?

That's what people are saying.

I said before, I've been a member of greenpeace for many years, and have come across gore many times whilst researching environmental issues.
His methodology never changes, only the focus of the scam does.

edit to add:
at above post

seriously though - the messenger in this case is not one we should listen to on any environmental issue - he's only out for himself.

[edit on 28/3/2008 by budski]

reply to post by budski


I want to point out:

I never said I agree with Al Gore, nor his policies. I just like to stick up for people when they are getting crapped on.

I just haven't been convinced that his intentions are bad. And more importantly, I am not convinced that even if his intentions are bad, that legislation he may pass (besides any carbon credit garbage) won't be beneficial in the long run.

reply to post by Sublime620


Fair comment, as always

Perhaps it's because I have a lot of experience reading about gore over the last 15 years or so, and the massive hypocrisy he represents, that I am so vociferous in my condemnation.

If you'd like to point me in the direction of some of the proposed legislation, I'd be more than happy to have a read and take it on board, as well as any comments or idea's you might have about the effects of the legislation.

As long as it doesn't kill or endanger millions like his cfc legislation did, I'm open minded.
BUT, the best legislation in the world is ineffective if it is improperly implemented.



[edit on 28/3/2008 by budski]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
He's making money off a scam on the world. Didn't you read any of those links? He's investing in these companies and pushing 'carbon credits' and he's wanting to buy and sell carbon credits and carbon offsets around the world.

He's making money off a movie and a book that lie.

It's too bad the Al Gore uses carbon credits to furthur his agenda. I respect anyone to takes an initial stand, but it seems he's going about it the wrong way. I'm not an American, so I don't dig too deeply into what makes an American businessman tick.

It would be nice to think that Al Gore is stashing the money away for a selfless cause, like donating toward research into new technology that doesn't use fossil fuels, but who is kidding who?

Anyway, my view on pollution and erratic climate and weather has nothing to do with anybody's publicity. People see beautiful Glaciers near where they live, and think that will never change. It would break anyone's heart to think within a few years, people will be on the lookout for black clouds looming overhead, precipitating an acidic sludge or rust coloured snow. This isn't alarmist. I'm sure everyone was an alarmist in 1980 when Mt Saint Helens erupted, and for a few years after we had dirty rain and snow with ash mixed in.

The religious leaders proclaimed the end of the world, which wasn't so. I will say this, when the "black cloud fallout" phenomenon is in full swing, and the government shuts down major industry polluters, it won't be the end of the world, but the symptom of mass insanity will be rampant.

When the word scientist is used, I feel compelled to groan because they are hailed as the all knowing gods that inform, educate and dictate policy for how we act in the physical world. They are simply people that like to know how things work and have decided to get someone else to pay them or fund them to have this life hobby that sometimes has a beneficial effect on their fellow humans. Although recent findings would suggest that caring Cancer scientists were using gene samples from the wrong body parts to develop cures for other parts of the body (even when the error was discovered no checking was carried out by these brilliant minds) and then their peers where taking their findings as the basis for their life’s work and their peers were using this work to form the basis of their work etc etc….. you see where this one is going?) But, what the hell, who cares where the funding comes from as long as it pays the bills right?

Now there are some out there that may be ‘independent’ thinkers and are acting on seminal realisations that they test and validate. But, if any, any politician hails science findings as their mandate to extract further taxes and restrictions (without providing free alternatives) then I apply a very simple rule. Take what they are telling me (this includes their scientists) with a huge pinch of salt.


e.g. Man is the cause of global warming, oh sorry, climate change, and we must stop man doing this to the environment by taxing the hell out of him. Uhhhh???? There was me thinking it was a result of some cycle of time where that big yellow ball in the sky had a warming, then cooling ripple effect within the environments that came under its control.

The same people that buy into this current environmental frenzy fad that inflicts more taxes and guilt on the world, were probably the same people that actually believe that 911 tragedies was not governmental in its origins. Or who vote for a political party and think that they will actually benefit from said vote!

20, 30, 40 years ago people had an excuse for their sheep like ignorance but today no excuse exists to perpetuate the fraud. Waken up!!!!

Having read the debunker links now I have yet to see an unbiased website give me anything but anti-Al Gore propaganda. The hypocracy is amazing. Al can tell which way the wind blows and has made money pointing out and explaining the science of the day. The character of Evil Al Gore has been created by the right wing in power to distract form the money they are making hand over fist in Iraq. I guess Al Gore is the new Hillary Clinton: GOP public enemy number one.

The ridiculous thing is that as soon as the right wing figures out how to make money on climate change remediation this outrage will die down and a new whipping boy will be put up.

BTW have you all seen how much movies make these days? How much of Gores wealth is from making his movie?

Show me an unbiased website debunking GW/CC and I will reevaluate but please don't insult me with propaganda. That just will not fly.


edit for spelling.


[edit on 28-3-2008 by stikkinikki]

Originally posted by Kinesis
reply to post by Maxmars

 

I'll offer you the courtesy, and politely tell you that there is a problem with the warming climate, and the excessive pollution which threatens the ecosystem. The moderators get upset with an abusive tone of language, so I won't disgress from the issue with bitter insults.

It's easy to ignore that the planet will be in peril by the end of the next decade. Perhaps denouncing Al Gore gives you a sense of importance, and your friends spur you on, making you feel like you belong to a superior group of people who are immune to what will soon happen.

Perhaps denouncing Al Gore gives you a sense of importance, and your friends spur you on, making you feel like you belong to a superior group of people

What would give you that idea? What EXACTLY are you trying to say? What reason would you have for saying that?

The moderators get upset with an abusive tone of language, so I won't disgress from the issue with bitter insults.

So instead you just make some transparent suggestions or words to that effect


- Con

reply to post by stikkinikki


I agree. Even if he is hypocritical in some rights... the ends may seem to justify the means. Here are some Al Gore deeds:

Al Gore stuff

On September 23, 2002, in a speech before the Commonwealth Club, Gore criticized President George W. Bush and Congress for what he claimed was their rush to war prior to the outbreak of hostilities in Iraq.[118] In it, Gore alleged that the war was a risk to America's reputation in the world, and questioned the legality of the Bush Doctrine.[119]

So Gore was anti-Iraq war before it was cool.

A few years later in September 2005, Gore chartered two aircraft to evacuate 270 evacuees from New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. He was highly critical of the government and federal response in the days after the hurricane.[120]

He helped save lives after Katrina. Not even just by critique, but physically saved lives.

Later, on January 16, 2006, Gore delivered a speech criticizing President Bush's use of domestic wiretaps without a warrant.[121]

He is against wiretapping.

I think it's wrong for the government to discriminate against people because of that person’s sexual orientation. I think that gay men and women ought to have the same rights as heterosexual men and women — to make contracts, to have hospital visiting rights, to join together in marriage, and I don’t understand why it is considered by some people to be a threat to heterosexual marriage to allow it by gays and lesbians. Shouldn’t we be promoting the kind of faithfulness and loyalty to one’s partner regardless of sexual orientation? Because if you don’t do that, then to that extent you’re promoting promiscuity, and you’re promoting all the problems that can result from promiscuity. The loyalty and love that two people feel for one another when they fall in love ought to be celebrated and encouraged and shouldn’t be prevented by any form of discrimination in the law.

Gore doesn't buy the "sanctity of marraige" mumbojumbo.

Gore has been involved with the development of the Internet since the 1970s, first as a Congressman and later as Senator and Vice-President. Internet pioneers Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn stated in the 2000 article "Al Gore and the Internet", that Gore was "the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development."[101]

Gore really did help bring about he internet. Though he is most often quoted as saying, "I invented the internet", what Gore really said was that he helped bring the internet around by being the first politician to promote it.

I appreciate his work there, and I'm sure most on this site do.

In February 2007, critics stated that "a report by the Nashville Electric Service revealed that Mr Gore's mansion in Nashville consumed between 12 and 20 times more electricity than the average family home and that his electricity consumption had risen since the film's release in 2005."[87] WKRN-TV reported that the Gore family obtains their power from the Nashville Electric Service's "renewable energy initiative", The Green Power Switch program.[88] The Detroit Free Press also noted that "Gore purchased 108 blocks of 'green power' for each of the past three months, according to a summary of the bills. That’s a total of $432 a month Gore paid extra for solar or other renewable energy sources.The green power Gore purchased is equivalent to recycling 2.48 million aluminum cans or 286,092 pounds of newspaper, according to comparison figures on NES’s Web site."[89]

So yes, he uses up a lot of energy, but he does take initiatives himself to help the environment.

I fly jets. I did just the other day. I care a lot about the world, but at this time it's the best I can do.

Gore was awarded the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize, which was shared by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, headed by Rajendra K. Pachauri (Delhi, India).[96]

Yes, Gore was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm not saying that means everything, but the people who give that prize away aren't exactly fools.

My point? Gore has done a lot of good. Whether or not people agree with his intentions... the world seems to be a better place since he's been here. I can't hate on someone who does that kind of work.

reply to post by budski


Let me look further into that...

[edit on 28-3-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by ClatuVerataNecktie


I was reviewing all the posts and had to stop before i finished. This one stopped me dead in my tracks.

I will explain to you by simply saying that I have spent years and years in the scientific research community. With too few exceptions it can be stated accurately - THEY MAKE BILLIONS BY 'AGREEING' WITH THOSE WHO MAKE THE GRANTS! I can't understand how a group of otherwise highly intelligent people don't get it!

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm asking you to 'see' that the objection is not about the climate shift, man-made pollutants, industrial poisoning of the ecosystem! You would have to be seriously 'detached' from reality to not accept that we are consuming our planet and not replenishing or providing good stewardship.

The objection is this darn infatuation with Gore and the fact that no one wants to address the profiteering nature of the 'solutions' offered. Al Gore is a shill, this guys been selling himself as a savior ever since he 'invented the internet.' Whenever 'science' is made to serve politics - all you have to do is follow the money.

The ecosphere is a dynamic balanced system - it has always fluctuated back and forth. Whether we can adapt - overcome - or somehow 'correct' the fluctuation must always be tempered with what we know - not what we think 'might' be. Yes, CO2 is among the factors we need to watch - along with just about every other damn thing we emit - spew- and otherwise belch out.

People - there is contradictory scientific evidence in the mix.

There is profit to be gained, there is a political, and diplomatic agenda to be served. You must be more discerning in your 'acceptance' of scientific data that was 'prepared' for your consumption. How often has Hollywood been honest before? Do you not see the parallels between this and the many times 'science' has explained to us the value of 'duck and cover' or 'flouride is good for you' and by the way - where are all those great zero emission cars which have been around since the 50's? Hey - there's no real proof that cigarettes cause cancer, leave no child behind - weapons of mass destruction and all - what you never heard of propaganda? This is what they do. Do you really think that our forefather knowingly gave the economic reigns to international bankers? They were told it was the best thing for them by the same people spewing climate shift courses of action at you right now.

Why is it so surprising that people closer to the actual scientist themselves keep telling us something is wrong with the picture the Gore zealots are propagating. Why does it have to be - either Al is right or everyone else is; and since I like Al - everyone else is wrong?

Yeah, it's warmer today than it was last week, or cooler, and there's no oil on the Alaskan slope! We've got 20 billion tons of plastic floating in the pacific, and we'll just place all this radioactive waste in the Yucca mountains where it will be safe.

All you can think to say it Al's right? What made him an expert? Oh I forgot, the internet.

Get a grip people - start asking tough questions like - "Has this kind of climate shift ever happened before?' 'What caused it back then?" and 'given the magnitude of the effects your observing, what possible projection can you make confidently?' What you have been 'shown' is not always the whole truth - that's all I'm saying. Please be eco-friendly, it's the safest course of action, but for goodness sake - remember to question the information you're being fed (and consider who is feeding it to you and why). Most scientist don't disagree with each other publicly for sh#ts and giggles. While there may be bias either way, the fact that it's not 'cut and dry' ought to indicate that it's not so simple as - hey the ice is melting and the weather changed since I was a kid. There a waaay too many factors involved to hang your hat on one geocentric view.

Originally posted by Sublime620
I just like to stick up for people when they are getting crapped on.

He isn't getting crapped on. He's getting EXPOSED. There is a difference.

Originally posted by stikkinikki
The character of Evil Al Gore has been created by the right wing ... .

Actually, people on the left, on the right, and in the middle agree.

as soon as the right wing figures out how to make money on climate change

… they’ll make money on it too. Yes, yes … they are all corrupt. So what?
That doesn’t change the fact that what Al Gore is doing is wrong.

How much of Gores wealth is from making his movie?

The movie made 50 million at the box office. I don’t know how much was his. He makes $175,000 per slide show he puts on based upon his book and movie. That’s ALL his. At least 850,000 copies of the book sold. I haven’t found how much of the book $$ went to him.

Don’t forget the money he makes from business ventures capitalizing on the fake global warming scam. Oh .. and the $$ he makes on Carbon Credit Trading firms that trade bogus carbon credits. Cap and Trade is interesting. THESE are where his big money comes from.

Originally posted by Sublime620
Even if he is hypocritical in some rights... the ends may seem to justify the means.

The point is that he is telling LIES. While people are looking at those lies and thinking it's the truth, they are no longer looking for the truth. He is doing more harm then good. And he's making money off the lies.


[edit on 3/28/2008 by FlyersFan]

Some specific legislation Gore has put into effect or introduced:

Govinfo Gore Legislation

When he was a member of the U.S. Senate, Gore introduced and steered to passage the High Performance Computing Act to create a national, high-speed computer network and increase research and development of high-performance technologies. That legislation was signed into law in 1991, and is now part of President Clinton's technology and economic plan, the National Information Infrastructure, to help more the United States into the 21st Century.

Gore was the author of legislation aimed at stopping the proliferation of nuclear missile technology to Third World countries.

Gore's legislation to stop the skyrocketing cable television rate increases of the past decade was signed into law in 1992.

Gore has taken on the cable television industry, manufacturers of contact lenses, telephone companies, and the federal government, leading investigations into the lack of quality control in the U.S. space program, government waste, inadequate nutrition, and labeling of food products and toys that are hazardous to children.

That site is a bit promoting, I'll be honest. Let's look at some other stuff.

PBS on Gore

Fairly bipartisan view here. They look at his strengths and weaknesses:

The Vice President is clearly the strongest environmentalist ever to be nominated by a major party for the post of president. He, over the years, has demonstrated a really exceptional understanding of and commitment to environmental issues

I think his environmental record is rather unimpressive, and I think it's unimpressive because of his political style. It is a style that is, in many ways, very strident; it is very aggressive; it is very unwilling to build consensus and to build coalitions and do that in a bipartisan way to achieve positive changes that will lead to environmental improvements.

Here's some stuff:

His most recent land conservation initiative took place in eastern Washington State, when he declared a 51-mile stretch of the Columbia River and 195,000 acres of surrounding land as a national monument. Two other national monuments were declared on the same day. All told, the Clinton-Gore administration has declared more national monuments than any administration since Teddy Roosevelt.

To the people who say he's profiting:

What does he have to gain from that?

Or from flying his plane into New Orleans to rescue people?

And let me tell you I am committed to making sure that we continue to clean up the Cold War legacy of contamination on this land. (Applause) That's part of our commitment here today, too.

Not just about carbon emmissions, Al Gore wants to clean up our nuclear waste - which I promise is a problem this very moment.

Washington Post on Al Gore's Plan

Gore proposed a Carbon Neutral Mortgage Association ("Connie Mae," to echo the familiar Fannie Mae) devoted to helping homeowners retrofit and build energy-efficient homes. He urged creation of an "electranet," which would let homeowners and business owners buy and sell surplus electricity.

Is this not what we need to be doing? Regaurdless of global warming being man made or not, we need to be reducing our carbon fuel intake right?

So no matter his intentions, it's a step in the right direction.

Gore touched on nuclear power as a palliative for global warming but made it clear that this is at best a partial solution. Nuclear power inevitably raises questions of nuclear arms proliferation, he said.

And he warned against thinking that the recent drop in oil prices offers much help: "Our current ridiculous dependence on oil endangers not only our national security, but also our economic security."

Nail on the head right there.

Perhaps I'll find some more later, but that's a bit of what Al Gore has done and is doing.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
He isn't getting crapped on. He's getting EXPOSED. There is a difference.

Oh pardon me. I haven't seen much exposing... sorry.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The movie made 50 million at the box office. I don’t know how much was his. He makes $175,000 per slide show he puts on based upon his book and movie. That’s ALL his. At least 850,000 copies of the book sold. I haven’t found how much of the book $$ went to him.

So he's making mad loot off of public appearances? They all do that... it's pretty smart really. If he can get away with charging it... why wouldn't he?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Don’t forget the money he makes from business ventures capitalizing on the fake global warming scam. Oh .. and the $$ he makes on Carbon Credit Trading firms that trade bogus carbon credits. Cap and Trade is interesting. THESE are where his big money comes from.

Okay the first source is just about him joining a venture capital firm to make some extra money (which the author thought was hypocritical for no apparent reason).

The second source is from the same author... think he's got an agenda? Nah.

Let's examine. The author quotes this article... which basically tells us how Gore got that "amazing 100 million get rich scheme money":

How Al Gore got loot

After his failed presidential run, a bearded and embattled Gore signed on as an adviser with a then-obscure Internet company called Google.

He went on to join the board of Apple, then he started his own profitable cable company and an asset management firm.

Now, according to a new article in Fast Company magazine, the former U.S. vice president is worth at least $100 million.

Think that stuff could have anything to do with it? Let alone a successful book and movie. Nah, it's gotta be carbon credit.

Seriously dude? Do you even read your sources?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The point is that he is telling LIES. While people are looking at those lies and thinking it's the truth, they are no longer looking for the truth. He is doing more harm then good. And he's making money off the lies.

What lies? That the environment is a piece of crap right now? Perhaps he's not right that warming is man made, it doesn't matter. The environment sucks, we need to fix it. We need to get off of carbon energy.

What else is there that you have a problem with?

[edit on 28-3-2008 by Sublime620]

[edit on 28-3-2008 by Sublime620]

Since the focus of the thread has gone ofcourse i have returned with links from National Geographic and a few others, basically, all the planets are getting warmer due to increased solar activity, and i don't care what Gore is or isn't, look at the bigger picture. Read and please cease arguing about Gore.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

www.livescience.com...

www.timesonline.co.uk...

reply to post by tommyson50


That was my original point:

There is no need to argue about Gore, but somehow I got roped in

We owe a lot to the round glowing object known as the Sun. It makes our days bright and warm. It’s the energy source that lets plants make food to feed us all. The Sun creates seasons, weather patterns, ocean currents, and even sleep patterns for most living things. Lucky for us on Earth, the Sun is the perfect distance, brightness and size to energize and sustain our delicate balance of life. Without the Sun, Earth would be a frozen, lifeless rock. But what exactly, is this Man Made disaster, that's called "Global Warning"

From Pole to Pole: The Inescapable Reach of Global Warming

By Kate Prendergast

As Europeans bask in what is one of the warmest winters on record, it's almost possible to believe in the beneficence of climate change - even if in the Czech Republic and neighbouring Slovakia, it is rousing brown bears out of their hibernation early.(1) But basking in the glow of global warming is misguided for two fundamental reasons. The first is that it views the effects of rising temperatures from a temperate part of the world, which has room to absorb rises and falls in temperature, rather than from areas with more extreme - and hence more vulnerable - weather systems. Second, it is absurdly short-termist. The warmer winters of today's Europe are just the beginning of a centuries' long process, one that virtually every scientist on record warns will have the same effect on the planetary global system as it is having on Europe's brown bears. Shaken out of its own natural cycles, the weather is set to become inexorably hotter, more unpredictable and more destructive as the century progresses.


www.islamonline.net...

Originally posted by tommyson50
Since the focus of the thread has gone ofcourse i have returned with links from National Geographic and a few others, basically, all the planets are getting warmer due to increased solar activity, and i don't care what Gore is or isn't, look at the bigger picture. Read and please cease arguing about Gore.

I read through the 3 links you've listed in your post. It's pretty straight forward, and they all seem to agree that solar cycles do occur in relation perhaps to the occurance of solar flares from the sun. The frequency of solar flares may manifest in a nominal "ripple effect" as the sun's radiation his the strata-sphere.

The thing is, the added CO2, methane, sulphur, lead, and other pollutants contribute to an underlying convection that traps heat under thick smog clouds. It may not happen everywhere at once, but I do see this problem becoming more widespread.

Blaming the sun is a scapegoat tactic. Abandoning fossil fuel consumption would be a movement of self-preservation for ourselves on this planet.

reply to post by traderonwallst


This is hilarious. But also a little scary. To see how most of the world is
so easily duped by a little propaganda.
They have no science. So instead they try and use threats; like deniers
are like holocaust deniers. Which can be arrested in Europe!
It is a sick sick place, the NWO is headed too. All it's followers are held
captive with fear. Fear is the opposite of faith. So if you have no faith.
Well God help you.


[edit on 28-3-2008 by Howie47]

reply to post by traderonwallst


Don´t worry about global warming, even if you are in your 20´s you wont live to see if you´r right or wrong...

reply to post by Sublime620


Thanks for taking the time to read my links, i tried to provide official ones, anyway it's pointless to mention dudes name, he...is just getting credit for what environmentalists have been saying for the last 20 years or more. And no, I am not using the sun as a scapegoat, last i check there weren't SUV's on the other planets and yet they are all magically getting hotter at the same time. The argument you guys bring forard has validity but if we did not use Oil, this would still be occurring. On to the next thread. I think I like it here......lol.