A picture show you Lama's violence in Tibet riot

Originally posted by harrytuttle

Originally posted by chinawhite
If the PRC is as bad as they claim, (stealing organs, mass murder etc) why would they go to the trouble of "staging" a protest.

Gee, I don't know, why don't you tell me?
Either the PLA have started doing the laundry for Tibetan monks, or they like playing "dress up" and starting riots.

I'll let the ATS viewers decide.

What if monks just get off their "monks cassock" and cosplay PLA and take a photo to remember?

I thinks if this is a secret movement, the lead is just not stupid as someone to let this disclosed in the open air. And in the same time , he must like to drive away the crowd.

Because the inertia in history, majority of western have bias on China and as a result, they believe all Dali said but none all Chinese media said.
I am sorry to see this happen. But I don't want to blame anyone. So I'd like to point out the mistakes western media made and will make to help them realize what terrible things they have done.

There is a scale between sky and land, and ordinary people are the weights. Hope the remain conscience will finally recovery in one's heart.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by pityonu]

reply to post by harrytuttle
I must inject here..



I've seen this photo.. quite a while back. This photo is from 2003, where the PAP were issued monks robes, for a major Religious event, for security coverage.

From the article from Whatreallyhappened, it claims that the British Intel had advanced knowledge that the Chinese had planned this. And that PAP in Monk's Cos-played were the one's who flamed the riots.

Initially, they were marketing it as a tibetan peaceful protest, and advised the Chinese govt to restrain.. so the protest con't to be "peaceful" in their ethnic cleasing ways, plunder, looting and murders... then when they couldn't eat their own words.. it's a Chinese plot.

What ever happened to independent thinking. I mean the Rioters could pick up, or sense Chinese to be attacked in the streets. Yet they couldn't tell Faked Monks up close ?





Look at the above pictures of the initial so-called peaceful protest. Are those the conducts of Monks, who chants buddhist scriptures. Do they look like fake ? The Americans and British should really get their propaganda straight.. they have always been professional. It seemed the Chinese had really messed up their plans.

BTW, this showed British Govt had a hand in this planned riot. The Chinese may well be correct.





[edit on 29-3-2008 by mobydog]

[edit on 29-3-2008 by mobydog]

Pellevoisin wrote:

I find it an interesting development that the Chinese Communists have become so aggressive (read: fearful) in their presence on the internet that they find it necessary to post absurdities to ATS.

Pellevoisin's post is the most intelligent and objective I have read in some time. I too don't blame the Han Chinese personally as this BS is what they've been raised to believe.

It is interesting to add that they really don't have that access to the outside world. Two days ago I was with a Chinese friend who accesses the internet via cn.msn.com ... A Chinese server.

I could not access abovetopsecret on his lap top.

Suggestion that the British were behind the Drepung monastery sit down protest on 11 March are a nonsense.

On 28 Febrauary 2008 at the Monlam festival 200 monks were arrested for publicly chanting long live the Dalai Lama. That was behind the protest of 10-11 March 2008.

The fact junior monks protest and the senior monks try to restrain younger ones is indicative that the younger monks are not party cadres.

It is well known and has been for years that the senior monks, especially abbots of monasteries are party cadres.

The Drepung incident on 10-11 March was apparently a genuine protest.

The riots of 14 March was an escalatory response to heavy handed arrests in February and March by PAP.

As for those who ask what US police would do in response to Mexicans rioting in USA...

They would not use lethal force except as a last resort.

China provoked this situation which is why I don't condemn the Tibetans.

reply to post by sy.gunson
Yeah.. it's all about perpsective.

Grannies reading the Constitution gets arrested, Anti-war and anti-World bank/IMF get police bashing and arrest. Even the Free Tibet invading the Chinese Ambassy get arrested by almost every country.

But, tell you what.. why don't you go into the streets and start chanting Islamic "long live Usama Bin Ladin".. and see what happen. While I'm not saying Dalia Lama a terrorist (though I don't think his all that religious either.. he's just a typical politician).. but there is a comparison to be made here. It's perspective.

The Chinese communist government is not staging incidents for the first time. Let's remember the staged "self-immolation" that took place on Tienanmen Square in 2001. In that case the government and the media orchestrated a really big event to demonize the Falun Gong followers. There are other cases as well. Take a look at the following videos and judge for yourself:

The Truth Behind the Tragedy #1




The Truth Behind the Tragedy #2

Pellevoisin wrote:
I find it an interesting development that the Chinese Communists have become so aggressive (read: fearful) in their presence on the internet that they find it necessary to post absurdities to ATS.

So why am I a Chinese communist? or even Chinese for that matter?. Where is your proof that ANY of the pro-China views have any connection to China?

Thats why ATS is a conspiracy site because people can post their thoughts (no matter how ridiculous they are) and sit back with their tin-foil hats and get even more paranoid.

Why would the Chinese government employ people to post "propaganda" on a conspiracy site?. Why would they waste their resources ARGUING with people, thats right ARGUING NOT persuading or trying to have a soft-touch.

I have my own opinion that sy-gunson is a spy. He seems to quote off Tibet.com and Free-Tibet way to often. Maybe CIA or FBI paid agents working under the guise of Tibetan activist trying to destroy Chinas economy

Originally posted by harrytuttle
Gee, I don't know, why don't you tell me?

When was that picture taken. What context was it taken in, the PAP does do cultural exchanges with Tibetans. How does it show that they are organizing a "protest"?. And what region of Tibet was it taken in?

Originally posted by chinawhite

So why am I a Chinese communist? or even Chinese for that matter?. Where is your proof that ANY of the pro-China views have any connection to China?

Please. "A tree without leaves is still a tree." "A lizard behind a rock is a lizard behind a rock."

It is possible to detect the Chinese Communist Han propaganda from miles away. Chinese Communists are clearly in a total panic over the Olympics being cancelled or boycotted and the PRC losing face.

Of course, the Chinese Communist government would employ every means available to try to change world opinion ... and that includes using extremely popular websites to post propaganda no one in the rest of the world could utter without laughing convulsively.

reply to post by chinawhite

Why would the Chinese government employ people to post "propaganda" on a conspiracy site?

Ask the Propaganda department for the "why", i would guess it's about propaganda.

from www.rsf.org...

While heavily censoring discussion forums, the regime also knows how to exploit them. For example, they are manipulated in times of crisis to reinforce nationalist feelings. The authorities let people post very fierce attacks on other countries, especially Japan and the United States, thereby channelling discontent toward external targets. [...]
The website of the governmental news agency, www.xinhuanet.com, and the online version of China Daily, www.chinadaily.com.cn, receive millions of visits every day. Their content is entirely controlled by the Communist Party.

from www.wtop.com...

Chinese President Hu Jintao has told officials to breathe new life into propaganda efforts, putting renewed emphasis on a key pillar of Communist rule ahead of this summer's Beijing Olympic Games.

from www.guardian.co.uk...

In response, the propaganda departments of provincial and municipal governments have recently been instructed to build teams of internet commentators, whose job is to guide discussion on public bulletin boards away from politically sensitive topics by posting opinions anonymously or under false names.

from subadei.wordpress.com...

Chinese Communist Party leader Hu Jintao ordered to “maintain the initiative in opinion on the Internet and raise the level of guidance online,” [11] “An internet police force - reportedly numbering 30,000 - trawls websites and chat rooms, erasing anti-Communist comments and posting pro-government messages”

Originally posted by Pellevoisin

Originally posted by chinawhite

So why am I a Chinese communist? or even Chinese for that matter?. Where is your proof that ANY of the pro-China views have any connection to China?

Please. "A tree without leaves is still a tree." "A lizard behind a rock is a lizard behind a rock."

It is possible to detect the Chinese Communist Han propaganda from miles away. Chinese Communists are clearly in a total panic over the Olympics being cancelled or boycotted and the PRC losing face.

Of course, the Chinese Communist government would employ every means available to try to change world opinion ... and that includes using extremely popular websites to post propaganda no one in the rest of the world could utter without laughing convulsively.

FXXXX. I am not even a communist. Why always doubt on other's identity? I guess no need to respect you and your idea for you disrespecting other's statement.

You think you are so important to let one government to persuade? Fact is you are even not cared about a bit. Don't say something far away from this post, or you can start one new thread and I will argue with you there.

You are no worth to persuade! Live in your fake full-of-lies world.

reply to post by Phil J. Fry


I personally think that in the case of the foreign websites, the Chinese communist government mostly uses agents located on foreign soil. I doubt the ones inside China have access to the banned websites (like this one). I guess the job is done by the members of the students organizations in US and Australia. There were a lot of reports in this regard like this old article from BBC:

BBC: China's spies come out from the cold

But instead of hardened KGB agents lurking on street corners in dark glasses, the spy stories appearing in the Western press recently have been about fresh-faced Chinese students.

Some are said to be engaged in research at respected foreign establishments, while others are enrolled as bright young business trainees in major Western companies.

Their mission - or so the reports allege - is to use fair means or foul to gather technological and commercial intelligence that will help speed China on its way to becoming the next global superpower.

...

China has sent 600,000 students overseas in the past 25 years as part of a conscious policy of developing its science, technology and business skills.

Well, 600,000 is a HUGE number. As a person born in an ex-Communist country I know quite well what kind of people were freely allowed to study in a foreign western countries during that time.

I personally think that in the case of the foreign websites, the Chinese communist government mostly uses agents located on foreign soil. I doubt the ones inside China have access to the banned websites (like this one).

Ah. Clever boy~ like to guess? En, sorry this time you are wrong!~
Easy, just check all the ip of pro-china poster. For a bright man , I think you know what's my meaning here. Good luck.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
It is possible to detect the Chinese Communist Han propaganda from miles away.

I asked what proof do you have that I am a Chinese agent?. Not some rambling on about trees and lizards which isn't a very clever analogy anyway. Why dodge the question?

What proof do you have that you are not an American agent?


Does it mean every person defending America on the internet is an American agent because they simply care enough to argue that point for it?. I was not educated in China, I was not raised in China, I have not read ANY literature from China which is quite boring and stereotypical.

How is any of my arguments "Chinese" propaganda when I use globally recognised logic, such as the notion Tibet is part of China which all governments world wide recognise

Chinese Communists are clearly in a total panic over the Olympics being cancelled or boycotted and the PRC losing face.

What is face?. What exactly are you trying to gauge by stating that they will lose face.

Do you know that "face" is a western notion not a Chinese one.

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
Ask the Propaganda department for the "why", i would guess it's about propaganda.

So in the other thread you lied about Xinhua, distortion and dont dare answer the post?. When people are wrong they normally concede they made a mistake but you act like it never happened

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I'm asking you people why.

Your links don't explain anything but more or less biased information


Your links below

The website of the governmental news agency, www.xinhuanet.com, and the online version of China Daily, www.chinadaily.com.cn, receive millions of visits every day. Their content is entirely controlled by the Communist Party.

So does CNN, BBC and other media from other countries not receive many more millions every day?. You might think you are clever and they are privately owned but they are more or less in agreement with the foreign policy of the government in charge

An internet police force - reportedly numbering 30,000 - trawls websites and chat rooms, erasing anti-Communist comments and posting pro-government messages”

And so does America, I doubt the Americans would have a smaller force than the Chinese government.

BTW: It does not only target Anti-government material but other items such as graphic material not suitable for minors



And it shows they are in the "Chinese" speaking realm. It doesn't mention anything about English websites or that they are targeting English websites

Originally posted by sy.gunson
Two days ago I was with a Chinese friend who accesses the internet via cn.msn.com ... A Chinese server. I could not access abovetopsecret on his lap top.

Is there any proof of this?. Can you provide proof?

How did he access cn.msn.com from a Chinese server in New Zealand?. It was probably because you didn't have a clue what you were doing which led to you being unable to access ATS


I had no trouble accessing ATS when I was in China nor does other western members like rouge1 who for some reason live or do business in China.

His living proof that you can access ATS and definitely not Chinese or pro-Chinese for that matter

I am not looking at your pictures nor am I reading your thread, just want to say "Good for the Llamas".

Blessings to a Free Tibet!

ATS is accessible from China. I just checked with the following web tool:

Website Test behind the Great Firewall of China

Of course websites like freetibet.org are blocked.

I was wondering how would our pro-ChiCom friends comment on the staged self-immolation video I posted YouTube links above. Looking forward to hear your opinions.

Originally posted by zarzar
ATS is accessible from China. I just checked with the following web tool:
Website Test behind the Great Firewall of China

This just confirms what I already know.

I would like to see what sy-gunson has to say to that because he claims it was somehow blocked

I was wondering how would our pro-ChiCom friends comment on the staged self-immolation video I posted YouTube links above.

My internet connection is capped until the new month but are you referring to the Falun Gong members who set themselves alight in Tienanmen square?. The biggest question is if they were staging a fake event, why did they allow a CNN crew to be in the square and then take their film?



Time Magazine dedicated a whole article to the issue which is from a obvious non-Chinese source. They didn't believe it for a second nor did CNN, the BBC and most major news organizations which reported that it was implausible that it was staged

Falun Gong's leaders badly flubbed their damage control after the immolations. Instead of acknowledging that the five protesters might have been misguided practitioners, they denied any connection with them. Implausibly, the Falun Gong website insists the episode was set up by government provocateurs. Few were convinced by that line. At the same time, Falun Gong's leaders abroad are demanding ever-higher levels of loyalty from followers. An editorial on the website calls for action "especially at Tiananmen Square," even though government repression has reduced the number of demonstrations there to basically nil. Li Hongzhi recently urged followers to use supernatural powers to immobilize the police and other "evil scoundrels" by pointing at them and thinking "freeze." Do that, he says, and they "will do whatever you want." Believers who renounce Falun Gong, even under duress in labor camps, are given little sympathy. They are expected to reaffirm their faith on the Falun Gong website and sign their names, despite facing certain rearrest. Although it's impossible to tell how many people still practice secretly, growing numbers seem to feel they can't meet the expectations of their exiled leaders. "Lots of people say they don't want me to give them information anymore," says the foreign-company accountant who distributes messages from the website.

www.time.com...

Well the documentary you posted is Falun-Gong sponsored so there is a clear motive they are trying to persuade. Here is the arguments they made

* Police, not normally known to carry fire extinguishers on duty, appeared to have pieces of fire-fighting equipment on hand on the day of the self-immolations.

Tienanmen square has a number of fire-fighting stations stationed around the place. Its not ideally suited to put out people on fire but they are used to put out the number of demonstrations in the square. The square is a hot-spot of dissent owning from the demonstrations in 1989 and people irregularly set alight (or attempt to at least) the Chinese flag and other material associated with the communist party

* Liu Chunling, appears to be hit on the head by a blunt object as police attempt to put out the fire.

Inconclusive, I actually think that she wasn't hit because her body never fell to the ground.

Some Falun Gong say the protest was staged and yet point out that Liu Chunling was apparently murdered, which contradicts their claim it was staged

The camera of the CCTV footage zooms in on the scene as it unfolds; surveillance cameras in Tiananmen Square are usually fixed.

How would they have any idea if the Camera was fixed or have zoom facilities. Even a basic security system at local shops have zoom in it. But it still doesn't answer the claim he made that they are fixed cameras.

Wang Jindong shouts comments that do not form part of Falun Dafa teachings; his sitting position also does not reflect the full or half lotus position as in the Falun Dafa teachings.

Falun Dafa is not even a formal practice and was created very recently. I personally never read a Falun Gong book but have read pamphlets and other material they give out. The teachings are evolutionary because they initially started out very simplistic but then Li Hongzhi begun preaching more and more material such as beating terminal illnesses with mediation which led to a wave of deaths owning to people not taking their medicines which was one of the reasons why the Falun Gong was banned in China


Guardian.co.uk gives a good insight into what happened that day

Mr Li has confused his supporters by warning in his New Year message that the "forbearance" taught by Buddha "does not mean tolerating evil beings". He said the "law" he propounded did not justify "ignoring terrible crimes". If the evil went too far, "then various measures at different levels can be used to stop it and eradicate it".

Ten days later the Falun Gong centre in the US issued a clarification admitting that "certain disciples had some extreme interpretations" of Mr Li's message, and that some people thought that "we are going to resort to violence".

Erping Zhang, its spokesman, said Mr Li meant it was time to "bring the truth to light" about China's atrocities.

"If we are being silent about [Beijing's alleged lies], it would amount to agreeing with such fabrications and brutality ... But the Falun Gong always believed in peaceful and non-violent means to make all of our public appeals."

The Falun Gong has denied that the attempted self-immolation by five people in Tiananmen Square had anything to do with its members, and it published a complaint to CNN, whose Beijing reporter said that four of the five were seen in flames with their hands held up "in a classic Falun Gong meditation pose".

But some observers believe it is possible that the five were driven by desperation - and confusion about Mr Li's "new scripture" - to attempt suicide.

While there is considerable evidence of brutality in Beijing's efforts to repress peaceful protest, Mr Li's own motives for encouraging his supporters to risk their lives are far from clear.

www.guardian.co.uk...

The hospital treatment of the victims, as recorded by Chinese state media, is inconsistent with proper care of severe burn victims: for instance, patients were not kept in sterile rooms

Well, thats debatable as well, depending on the nature of the burns would shed some more light on the issue more than anything else. Infection etc might not have been a concern

EDIT: To stop any confusion

Pro-Chinese rally in Toronto.

The Tibetans are claiming they were "forced" to be there. LOL. Its funny because I know people who went to the rally and are second and even third generation Canadians and they definetaly have no ties to the Chinese government. Another attempt to spread propaganda

Tibetans claim everything to be staged. Why didn't the Chinese government pay Australian or American Chinese to do the same thing. I would have loved to be paid to do that.











[edit on 29-3-2008 by chinawhite]

reply to post by chinawhite


Would you mind providing the news and or testimony of this claim of Tibetans that students were being paid?



[edit on 29-3-2008 by Witness2008]