FBI workers remove evidence

An investigation of the removals by FBI employees, undertaken by the Department of Justice Inspector General, has resulted in citations of misconduct and in policy recommendations governing crime scenes. Many of the items have been or are being turned over to museums and other collections; the Tiffany globe in particular has been turned over to the Inspector General.

www.fbi.gov...

Why were the items taken at all?

It is my belief that our employees were simply working feverishly, got caught up in that historic moment, and had good, if misguided motivation in taking the items. We know that debris from the site was also taken by many others, for the same reasons. And yet, regardless of the reasons, the items should not have been taken.

Was there a policy against removing items?

There has always been a firm policy against taking evidentiary and personal items from any crime scene. But there wasn't a policy against taking items that were determined not to fall into those categories and were slated for disposal. Now, though, we have a policy firmly in place. No items at all can be removed from an evidence recovery site. Period.

Congrats on once again over-blowing something. If you had bothered to post anything except the most inflammatory parts of this article, it would have been obvious that this is not as big a deal as you're trying to make it out to be. Specifically:

Following the 9/11/01 attacks against New York City's World Trade Center, the residue of the two towers, spread over 174 acres of land, was hand sifted by thousands of workers to recover remains, personal effects, and evidence. Over 17,000 tons of material were processed daily. Items were taken by workers as mementos of the tragedy and recovery effort, including by FBI employees. An investigation of the removals by FBI employees, undertaken by the Department of Justice Inspector General, has resulted in citations of misconduct and in policy recommendations governing crime scenes. Many of the items have been or are being turned over to museums and other collections; the Tiffany globe in particular has been turned over to the Inspector General.

Not exactly the grand conspiracy you're trying to allude to, just the isolated acts of a few irresponsible people. People, incidentally, who were summarily dealt with:

Are any FBI agents or support personnel being disciplined for their actions?

The Inspector General conducted a thorough investigation and found evidence of misconduct on the part of two employees. Those cases have been referred to our Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR). The OPR is reviewing the facts and will determine what discipline is appropriate.

Two whole employees!?!!??! Please Roger, if you must try and sow seeds of discord, can you please do so with less obviousness?

Originally posted by KarmaIncarnate
Congrats on once again over-blowing something. If you had bothered to post anything except the most inflammatory parts of this article, it would have been obvious that this is not as big a deal as you're trying to make it out to be. Specifically:

The 9/11 forum overall has gone downhill so much it's hardly worth looking at anymore. Note that this article was from March 2004. Earth shattering news, huh?

There's pretty much nothing left to talk about re 9/11 anymore that hasn't been rehashed hundreds of times.

It's over and done with. Nobody running for office is going to open up any investigation. Only fringe "conspiracy theorists" even talk about 9/11 at this point. The "truth movement" has done a great job of making themselves look silly and irrelevant at this point.

reply to post by jamie83


If it's hardly worth looking at anymore then why are you constantly here trying to debunk everything? Seems counter productive to me.

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
If it's hardly worth looking at anymore then why are you constantly here trying to debunk everything? Seems counter productive to me.

Yes its funny how people seem to overreact whenever something is psoted that does not agree with the official story or brings light onto some different aspect of what really happened on 9/11.

My bowels are in an uproar. Quote by loved English teacher. The gov shoved rescue and salvage in there without the priveledge of respirators.
Many of those are toast. If you can't get your mind around some serious deep doodoo was going on, I don't know what to tell you.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Yes its funny how people seem to overreact whenever something is psoted that does not agree with the official story or brings light onto some different aspect of what really happened on 9/11.

Quite the contrary. It's funny that people such as yourself seem so desperate to find non-existent conspiracy embarrass themselves by conjuring up "facts" like the one you lead this thread off with. There's no conspiracy, two employees took mementos and they were dealt with. The more youpost, the more I wonder if you're on some sort of medication for paranoid delusions.

Originally posted by KarmaIncarnate
It's funny that people such as yourself seem so desperate to find non-existent conspiracy embarrass themselves by conjuring up "facts" like the one you lead this thread off with.

Gee its so funny how believers have to state anyone who does not agree with them and brings up somethign different it has to be called a conspiracy when in reallity the only conspiracy is what the official story is based on. ALso since when is looking for the truith a conspirac?

Also if anyone who has basic intelligence would know that basic crime scene 101 states that even 1 piece of material is removed it makes the crime scene tampered with.

.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Also if anyone who has basic intelligence would know that basic crime scene 101 states that even 1 piece of material is removed it makes the crime scene tampered with.

Yes, and you would think FBI agents would know this. The same FBI agents who are tasked with the crime scene BTW. And not get "caught up in the historical moment of it all".

Originally posted by Griff
Yes, and you would think FBI agents would know this. The same FBI agents who are tasked with the crime scene BTW. And not get "caught up in the historical moment of it all".

So much for even having a proper crime scene report if the scene was tampered with.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Griff
Yes, and you would think FBI agents would know this. The same FBI agents who are tasked with the crime scene BTW. And not get "caught up in the historical moment of it all".

So much for even having a proper crime scene report if the scene was tampered with.

Congratulations on, once again, using fallacial arguments to try to make your point. For those keeping score at home, Roger is using the nirvana fallacy. This is almost as popular as his use of base-rate and base assertions fallacies.

Originally posted by KarmaIncarnate
Congratulations on, once again, using fallacial arguments to try to make your point.

So what part of crime scene being tampered with do you not understand? Do i need to post basic crime scene regulations so you can understand it better?

Anyone picking up or moving material means the crime scene is contaminated.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Looks like it was not contaminated enough to affect the Moussaoui trial. Maybe you should have been on his lawyer team, since you apparently have a better grasp of legal matters than those professional lawyers.

It is not rational to expect nobody to move anything in such a catastrophic “crime scene”. This claim is just a silly attempt to cast doubt on anything. Moving a pile of concrete and steel doesn’t change the facts of the cause. There is video, yet you refute that. 1000s of eye witnesses... they are all wrong. CTers have created a self fulfilling prophecy with all their half truths & fuzzy logic. You are beginning to chase your own tails.

Still waiting for a shred of evidence that anything other then the obvious happened.


[edit on 3-6-2008 by Jake the Dog Man]

Originally posted by Disclosed
Looks like it was not contaminated enough to affect the Moussaoui trial.

Are you really that immature not to know that Moussaoul was a scapegoat and was going to be found guilty no matter what?

Please be adult enough to look up the regulations reguarding crime scenes before posting something that makes you look so immature.

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
Still waiting for a shred of evidence that anything other then the obvious happened.

Too bad you ignore the evidence that has been posted.

Also that there has never been any real evidence posted that supports the official story.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
Still waiting for a shred of evidence that anything other then the obvious happened.

Too bad you ignore the evidence that has been posted.

Also that there has never been any real evidence posted that supports the official story.

Actually, the opposite of what you say is true. There has never been any real evidence posted that supports anything except the official story. You certainly have never posted anything credible.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
blah blah... immature blah blah blah... adult enough blah blah blah... so immature.

Back to name calling? I'm sorry, I thought we were debating with an adult. Apparently we were mistaken.

The fact stands...the evidence was enough proof for the Moussaoui trial, it was not considered contaminated, and he was convicted on said evidence. Apparently your discussion about a contaminated crime scene did not affect that trial whatsoever.

oh, btw, mods have been notified about your personal attack not related to this thread

reply to post by Disclosed


I also flagged his attacks because they're getting more and more out of hand as he becomes more and more desperate to justify his position.