Ghost Hunters - Cashtown Inn Discussion

I thought it was highly suspicious that Grant turned the camera on, then less than two minutes later, the picture frame moves. What also struck me as weird was how the frame moved - it was rotating on its corner, just as if it was being pulled. Just like the chair in the attic.

To the OP, I must say that this isn't evidence of anything other than TAPS have captured footage of a picture frame moving. You can't say it's down to ghosts, as it's even more likely to be Grant faffing around with a bit of fishing line. For it to be real evidence, it would have to have been independently witnessed, and in a controlled environment. The massive conflict of interest that exists in Ghost Hunters, where it's in everyone's best interest if evidence was falsified (to boost ratings, gain fame, etc.), doesn't help their claims of being real investigators.

Plus they keep banging on about various "theories", all completely lacking any substantiating evidence. Even if they preface the "theories" with "some say" or "it's been said", the fact they're even acknowledging these crackpot theories hurts their credibility even more than if they ran around with bed sheets on their heads. Oh, they did that in the Eastern State Penitentiary already.

reply to post by dave420


it does seem odd, like you said, that only after two minutes of being back in his room the frame moved. i do see the similarities between the chair moving in that lighthouse and this current one. is that proof that grant is behind these two experiences though?

the problem is that i do not know if i would be able to distinguish paranormal movement from tomfoolery with absolute certainty. you say it's odd that these objects moved by the corners, like on a pivot, but that's maybe just how these beings wanted to move them? there is as much proof of grant rigging the movements as there are of beings causing the movements, so the evidence has to be thrown out. by evidence, i mean the entire show.

i love the show, and i've watched every episode, but i agree with you, it's still television. the TAPS team might be the most honest and genuine group out there today, but simply because it's airing on the SciFi channel and there is money to be made in that, every piece of evidence they bring out cannot be trusted.

it's more the media i do not trust with all of this than TAPS.

reply to post by banyan


You can't distinguish between paranormal activity and tomfoolery - that's why any video evidence from the show is next to useless, as it's not performed in a controlled environment.

Ghost Hunters can only ever offer us "oooh!" clips, not actual evidence. It's entertainment only, and it seems the Ghost Hunters team want it to stay that way.

I'm not saying Grant faked all those "incidents", but it certainly damages the show's credibility (whatever's left of it) when they leap all over this unsubstantiated nonsense like it actually means anything.

Originally posted by banyan



the problem is that i do not know if i would be able to distinguish paranormal movement from tomfoolery with absolute certainty. you say it's odd that these objects moved by the corners, like on a pivot, but that's maybe just how these beings wanted to move them? there is as much proof of grant rigging the movements as there are of beings causing the movements, so the evidence has to be thrown out. by evidence, i mean the entire show.

I'm not so sure about that. Not saying that the evidence isn't genuine nor is it necessarily but I don't believe for a second that there is a 50-50 chance of it being faked vs. it being genuine. That's the whole idea behind Ockham's razor. All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the most likely. So is it more likely that:

A) Grant is by himself turns on a camera and within minutes is privvy to an event that most people will never get to experience in their entire lifetime? or

B) Grant in an effort to boost ratings and ergo most likely his own salary puts a simple rig of fishing line or something similar to move an object in his room?

I think you are right though, pretty much all of their "evidence" needs to be regarded with absolute skepticism, however I don't agree that it all needs to be thrown out. You take it for what it is I suppose...

reply to post by thestateofnirvana


It doesn't have to be thrown out as all it demonstrates is that a picture frame moved in Grant's room. Nothing supernatural or paranormal can be learned from that encounter, whether it was a ghost doing the moving or Grant.

reply to post by dave420


Agree 100%

Originally posted by thestateofnirvana
I think you are right though, pretty much all of their "evidence" needs to be regarded with absolute skepticism, however I don't agree that it all needs to be thrown out. You take it for what it is I suppose...

i don't think the show needs to be thrown out, and i do not want their findings to be thrown out either. the TAPS team is showing what they find [tomfoolery, if any, put aside for now], and it is our responsibility to figure out whether or not it's evidence.

dave420 and i pretty much agree that you cannot take any findings they have and purport them as truthful evidence. they are still findings nonetheless, so they still have usefulness... to convince people who are on the fence about paranormal activity, to intrigue individuals to research the subject more, or to establish conspiracies on the origins of said occurrences.

reply to post by banyan


I'd say the findings are as useful for encouraging people to study ghosts as showing footage of a chimp defecating in a lab would encourage people to take up chemistry. If they do take the bait and get into paranormal research, modelling themselves after TAPS would be about the worst career move ever, as they offer nothing to the field apart from ridicule and a TV show that illustrates exactly why ghost hunters the world over are laughed at.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by banyan

 

I'd say the findings are as useful for encouraging people to study ghosts as showing footage of a chimp defecating in a lab would encourage people to take up chemistry. If they do take the bait and get into paranormal research, modelling themselves after TAPS would be about the worst career move ever, as they offer nothing to the field apart from ridicule and a TV show that illustrates exactly why ghost hunters the world over are laughed at.

Not so sure about this either. I think it can definitely generate interest in the field, and I do believe EVP to be one of the most simple and effective ways to investigate. I have had a few paranormal encounters and they show ways to debunk certain phenomena so I think it could be a guide. The extra music, flashiness, etc. is what I attribute to the producers and TAPS going along with it. But the foundation is pretty solid IMO

The entire show is based solely off of opinions. The last thing discussed on every show is whether of not Ghost Hunters thinks the location is haunted. It is only an opinion.

They never claim to have actual scientific proof of ghosts, but only what they consider evidence due to video and audio and some of their equipment. Again, only opinions.

So it is true, you need to take everything you see on the show with a grain of salt.

I have watched the show long enough to trust them. I think they are genuine people and are out there to find the truth. Like a previous poster mentioned, TAPS has been organized since the early 90's. Which goes to show that they truly believe in what they are doing, it is not just a money maker for them. Although I am sure they are loving the cash flow from the marketing side of it.

Of course people are going to be suspicious when evidence like this arises, how could you not question the possible explanations. But until there is proof of any of them tampering with evidence I am going to go with my gut feeling that they are genuine. It definitely is possible, but I see no proof of any tampering.

If they do take the bait and get into paranormal research, modelling themselves after TAPS would be about the worst career move ever, as they offer nothing to the field apart from ridicule and a TV show that illustrates exactly why ghost hunters the world over are laughed at.

All the previous shows are far more ridiculous than Ghost Hunters, focusing on demonology and psychics, when TAPS has barely even touched on most of those issues. (Yes I am aware they have had rare episodes with members of the psychic community).

It is very easy to be a skeptic until you have your own paranormal experience, the same goes for seeing a UFO.

Originally posted by samureyed
It is very easy to be a skeptic until you have your own paranormal experience, the same goes for seeing a UFO.

I've had plenty of experiences, I just choose to not trust myself any more than anyone else having an experience, as I know just how flawed our sensory perception can be, how easily confused people can get.

The only thing I trust is evidence, and TAPS has yet to produce any evidence at all, as all they get is terrible-quality video and even worse-quality audio, in uncontrolled environments.

EVP is a joke, especially on that show, as they use the most basic recording devices, using terrible lossy compression. Of course you're going to hear stuff on playback you didn't hear when the recording was made, just as using a bad camcorder will introduce visual artifacts you didn't see when recording (snow, interference, etc.).

If TAPS were serious, or even deserving of respect, they'd use proper technology. They wouldn't wave around EMF-detectors when they're using all kinds of wireless devices, and they wouldn't bang on about those ridiculous, insulting theories. I believe Grant mentioned about running water somehow helping entities manifest. The number of unproven, undemonstrated guesses that spew forth from the Ghost Hunters' mouths destroys any credibility they once had, if indeed they did have any.

reply to post by dave420


I'm making an assumption here so i apologize if I am wrong. If you have had multiple first hand experiences and you are still a skeptic, than they must not have been phenomenal ghost encounters.

Also, if your not willing to accept your own experiences, than what type of evidence would it take to convince you otherwise? You have thrown out all audio, video, and probably images (because even I don't trust pictures of ghosts), as well as your own personal experiences.

Wouldn't it make more sense to commend those that are seeking the truth rather than brush them off as fakes? There is no hardcore scientific evidence of paranormal that I am aware of, and there never will be if we can not get the scientific community to embrace the fact that something exists that is worth the time, money and effort of researching.

reply to post by samureyed


I know what you're saying, and I've thought about it before. The evidence required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that ghosts/entities exist would have to be recorded in a controlled environment. That could be in a "haunted" house, a lab, a state park, whatever - just as long as the environment has been thoroughly researched. As long as all creeks, squeaks, rumblings, infrasound sources, EM sources, etc. have been discovered (so they can be ruled out), and multiple instruments capture something at the exact same time in the exact same spot, I'd be happy.

I do commend those who take a sensible, scientific approach to the study of these alleged phenomena, believe me. I just don't suffer charlatans gladly, as the old addage "there's no such thing as bad publicity" doesn't hold any water in the scientific world, as it brings the entire discipline into question.

You don't see lauded physicists running around saying they've found a new kind of quantum particle lodged in their cheese sandwich, do you?

Originally posted by dave420

You don't see lauded physicists running around saying they've found a new kind of quantum particle lodged in their cheese sandwich, do you?

Actually, yes. Not that exact comment, but many of them do have some rather funny ideas about the universe and gods.

Gee, yet another time Grant magically knows exactly where to point his camera only to capture "ghosts" only minutes after setting it up...Although I will confess I haven't seen one episode after seeing the Halloween special foolishness.

Taps is a fraud, at least Grant is.

There is a spot where they were caught actually faking evidence. It was on the halloween live special.
At one point Grant says he feels something pull on the back of his collar several times. On the tape you can see his collar get physically tugged down by an unseen force. Apparently Grant didn't count on youtube because within minutes of it happening it was posted on the interwebs and upon watching the footage over and over again it was evident that Grant was tugging on a string attached to his collar. Jason even accidentally hits on the string, triggering the "pulled collar" when patting him on the back at the end of it.



Most people on their forums don't think Jason is in on it. Unfortunatly, this calls into question all of the material that Grant was directly involved with , and that is most of their good stuff.


1. The moving chair in the lighthouse. Grant was the last person to sit in it and the chair conveniently moves as soon as he gets up and moves off camera.Very simple to achieve with scotch tape and fishing line. Pull and the chair moves, pull harder and you pull the tape off the chair, removing the evidence.
www.youtube.com...

2. The bedroom foot uncovering video. Well, it was Grants room and rants feet. Grant set up the camera and only Grant knows what really happened. However, it is easily done with fishing line and a hook. Absurdly simple to fake. Feet fetish poltergeist starts at 2:34
www.youtube.com...

3. there was also a spot where something paranormal appeared to happen but it was discovered that someone had tampered with the camera. On the show they say that someone at the site that worked there must have done it in an attempt to fool them. The faker had to have a fairly deep knowledge of how this particular camera worked and exactly how they set it up in order to sneak into the room out of camera view and edit the footage with only the software in the camera.....I think this was aonother spot where Grant tried to fool everyone but was caught by his own investigators.

4. The psychic reading and the strange thermals during it. Well, Grant was holding the camera and while I dont know much about thermal cameras I know they have all sorts of controls to change the color ranges and that's what it would look like if they were being changed while recording. Starts at 1:53
www.youtube.com...


----------------------EDIT---------------------

Whoops, i just noticed i already posted this about a year ago when I forgot my main account pass.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by Tiloke]