reply to post by jackinthebox

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Well thank JITB...I try to look at it from the outside...especially if its not in my area. I have no idea how the cops/deputy's are up your way in NY. As you know I have a tough time believing that LEO's just come by someones house and whoop their --- for NO reason at all.....but as you know I have agreed in certain cases it CAN happen.

Bottom line to me is I wasn't there, it seems odd you got tased so much...having used a taser on folks before I never had to do it more then twice before getting them cuffed. You seem like a decent guy who tends to find/get himself into situations you regret later... but again you have debated with me enough to know I am not about kicking a man while he is down, but have no problem busting chops either if needed...so IF...IF your story is true you have my support...

Thanks. They didn't arrest me at that point. My stubbornness & stupidity of ignoring the ticket they wrote, led to a simple contact that resulted in my arrest for a FTA for that few hundred dollar ticket that required my presence in court that took a whole day each of the first two appearances I made, because It was far from home. You must make at least 3 appearances if you decide to contest their charges. Each time meant a day off work once I skipped one I was considered a full fledged criminal apparently.

So to summarize, calling 911 got me tagged & indoctrinated into their system & I nearly died because of it. Doesn't make sense, but it happened. Makes one think twice before asking for help - that's for sure. Seems both sides are treated as enemies/criminals these days.

They brought me into their game to extract revenue from me, but their loaded dice deceived them this time & now they will pay for playing with me. Everyone loses.


[edit on 30-3-2008 by verylowfrequency]

reply to post by rcwj75

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Indeed, which brings up another important point. They made no attempt to cuff me, did not even have the cuffs out, until other departments began to arrive.



Story of my life really. I got nicked when a shootout erupted on the street while I was walking home from school in the fourth grade. So it seems I've always had the nack for walking into trouble.

Do I really have to go all the way back to the first page of this thread to quote you saying that is exactly what you did when someone mentioned working as a security guard at K-mart?

I would certainly think that if you worked there, as you stated you did, you would know their training materials.

reply to post by craig732

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If I had realized it was that important to you, I would have communicated the facts more precisely. But as it does not directly pertain to the topic being discussed here, it doesn't really make much difference where I am working now.

If anyone else would like me to elaborate on this, or feels that it may be of importance, feel free to ask.



Again you reveal your lack of knowledge of the industry.



[edit on 3/30/0808 by jackinthebox]

Sorry, I haven't read the thread. I'm kind of tired. I just read the OP and wanted to say:

I would sue the balls off of the city. I dare cops to ever treat me like that.

Hmm, I think I know quite a bit more about the industry than you realize.

The NYS Security Guard Act of 1992 requires that when you begin working at a new employer as a security guard, you are to be given a 16-hour on the job training course specific to the property you will be working at. I think the New York State Department of State, Division of Licensing Services would be intereted to know if your employer is not following these procedures.

No, offense Jack, but there you go. You're close enough to admitting you provoked them with that statement.

Yeah, I support you dude, because I think your an alright guy (from following your threads) and cool enough that I'd buy you a brew if you were in my town. Besides I don't like to see people get unnecessarily bullied, & I always side with the underdog.

Nevertheless as a friend I'd point out that you made several bonehead moves. The first and the one I least see eye to eye with is you performed a little vigilante action. Doesn't matter whether or not he deserved it - It was stupid & wrong. We have cops like Rcwj75 and the courts to deal with that legally.

If your going to be a vigilante, be like Zorro be stealthy. Don't be stupid & gloat.

You admit to provoking the cops, as we all suspected. I don't give a rats behind if they were in the wrong - you knew the possibilities.

Then when you had the legal ability to counter a wrong you didn't file a claim in time, so you could have put them on notice and got some mental revenge as well as financial compensation. At the very least you would have dragged them through their own system - which in itself is punishment alone even if you lose in the end.

Yeah that's one thing many don't realize, being dragged through the system these days is punishment enough in itself, just because the system believes it takes precedence above all else and cares not how much it disrupts our lives & destroys relationships both personal & professional, which is why anyone it touches has lost by being there.

Thanks for being honest even at the risk of losing some credibility here. That takes guts and is a worthy trait, Jackinthebox.

Good day & good luck


Craig72 - get off his butt, and quit digging unnecessary holes over & over. You made your point clearly enough already enough is enough unless you have something new to bash him about. We all exaggerate a bit from time to time. One shot poking at it is enough, over & over like a broken record is unreasonable. You must like blood, it seems.


[edit on 1-4-2008 by verylowfrequency]

reply to post by verylowfrequency

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Oh, so if you say a provoking statement I should be able to punch you in the face, take you to the ground, and kick you?

I'll keep that in mind for the future. I thought people needed to show a little something called "restraint".

reply to post by craig732

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This is incorrect.

reply to post by verylowfrequency

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This is incorrect. If it were the case, I would admit that openly, as it would still not warrant the force administered by the police.



I only knew the possibilities based on my own experiences. I doubt that most civilians would have considered my statement to be downright provocative.

Here is what I said...

"Look, I'm not scared of the (insert department)Police, so if you're gonna arrest me, then let's not waste eachother's time."

BAM!!! ZAP....!!!

I rebuked their belligerent scare tactics, and expressed my willingness to resolve their investigation as they saw fit.

(I might add, that I made no confrontational physical gesture either.)





[edit on 4/1/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox

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But Jack... you provoked him. Everyone knows that our courts throw out cases of assault, murder, and threats based of provocation.

Remember the classic OJ trial:

"Yes OJ killed Nicole, but she was sleeping with a white man, which provoked OJ".

or Rodney King:

"Yes, but Rodney was a black guy in LA on a Friday night. Clearly the cops were provoked to use their nightsticks for 5 minutes on him".



*Edited to add:

Though I cannot source it, I believe those were the offical jury verdicts...

[edit on 1-4-2008 by Sublime620]

Does anyone remember what happened to the others that were in the car with Rodney King, that didn't resist arrest or attempt to attack the police?
There is a moral to that story- if you choose your battles wisely, the likelihood of becoming a statistic is greatly minimized. Our system is set up to use the court system to address grievances, not to challenge authority figures at every turn. If one's ego requires that they make a scene at every opportunity out of principle, then they can expect a higher frequency of negative attention. If on the other hand one keeps their pie hole shut, gets the names and badge numbers of LEOs that are being unprofessional, and informs their supervisors(or even the media), that's much more effective at making a point.

reply to post by BlueRaja

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That was really just a joke... however, Rodney King, resisting or not, should not have been beaten like that.

Those night sticks aren't there to beat people up, they are they to subdue an agressor. Once the person is subdued, they should continue acting like police. Not like thugs.

I just want everyone who hasn't seen the video to be clear of what Raja is defending:

Rodney King's Video

Watch with caution, it's pretty messed up. You can see AT THE START of the video, he's already been beaten so badly that he can't stand up.

They continue hitting him in the torso and legs, maybe the face, I didn't see any though.

Maybe he did try to run, or charge, I'm not defending that. But once he's down, he's down. Cuff him and take him away.

That's not policing, that's criminal. If I was "defending" myself from an attacker, but continued beating him after he was down, I wouldn't get away with it. Why should they?

The video is a bit off topic, but it's a good reference to how far some people will go to defend brutal police actions. There are good cops, and there are bad cops. Choose your stance wisely.

reply to post by BlueRaja

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Not effective at all. How many times have we seen officers that were clearly wrong and in violation of the law, yet they were not even fired much less prosecuted. And that is just the ones that actually make it into the media. Civilian complaints fall on deaf ears.

At what point did I defend anything? I asked if anyone knew what happened to the others in the car- the answer being nothing. Rodney was the only one that resisted and repeatedly attacked the police, even after being tased and beaten. The outcome would've been different had he chosen a different course of action. Does this excuse the police? That's not my intent here. My intent is to cause one to reflect on cause and effect with regards to their choices. I don't ever talk smack to cops, because I know that I'll lose that battle. If they are in the wrong I deal with them through other means, when they're no longer in a position to inflict bodily harm.

reply to post by jackinthebox

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That's why there are things call law suits. If you get good evidence and maintain your composure, so that nobody can impune you for culpability, (and file complaints in a timely manner), that can be far more effective than getting into a pissing contest with cop.

reply to post by BlueRaja

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Okay, well then for the most part we are in agreement. Yes, if you do not protest at all, you will probably not be abused by officers. That's true.

Where we obviously don't agree:

Sometimes you have to protest. I'm not saying Rodney should have, but in some cases it's necessary. Police Officers should NOT be above answering the publics questions.

All I know is:

If I wasn't resisting arrest, and I just made a comment that got me put on my back, tasered, and hit... I'd sue the pants off of the state, city, whoever I could.

No better way of getting your point across than taking someone's money. When money is up for grabs, officer's get fired.

reply to post by BlueRaja

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I didn't do anything morally wrong or illegal, yet we all know that if I had filed a complaint, it would have gone nowhere. In fact, neighbors who witnessed the event, tried to lodge a complaint as very concerned citizens, but no department would take the complaint. If I had filed a lawsuit, they would have thrown the book at me in my criminal case. There would have been no chance at a favorable resolution. So no matter how you cut the pie, the police have gotten away with criminal acts as a matter of course in a system that endorses thugs in blue.



[edit on 4/1/0808 by jackinthebox]