It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Real Top Ten Ancient Weapons

page: 3
1
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 12:01 PM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


I have always considered the catapult a siege weapon, best suited for taking down walls, but with the proper load it could have been used to devistate ground forces as well!




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 12:17 PM
link   
My vote for the all time “best” ancient weapon would be for the Roman Gladius.
In all likelihood, this weapon was the instrument of more death than any other in the ancient world - perhaps even until the advent of firearms. Whole nations and cultures were destroyed and the political and cultural landscape of Europe, Africa and the Middle East were changed by men wielding it. It endured in usage for centuries, essentially unchanged in form or function. How many other weapons can claim that?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 12:35 PM
link   
reply to post by passenger
 


I have to agree with you. The Roman Gladius and swords in general have changed the face of the world forever.
So as far as the sword is concerned maybe I should rethink my number one choice.......HMMMM........



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 11:23 PM
link   
to those who pointed out he atlatl someone pointed out the more efficient woomera. so we shall just switch those two. they are basically the same.

as for my choice i want to say knife. easily concealed. and as most of us hopefully know surprise is one of the greatest advantages in battle. and the knife is also very easy to use, so just about any random person who had a concealed knife has a very easy kill on an unsuspecting target. it also doubles as a tool that is still widely used today. it is also fairly easy to make a decent one out of the right kind of stone.

i like the thought of sneak attacks. they are quick and easy. thats probably why i like ninjas so much. that and im part Japanese.

i also like the katana. it was ingeniously designed. the curvature of the blade was perfect. most blacksmiths who made the katanas put more work into them then most other swordmakers of the era. so they usually turned out to be of a better quality. they were used by one of the most revered soldiers in history, the samurai.

this last one is a little sketchy. i'm just to lazy to check it.
the spear is also a good idea but i like the roman ?pilium?(i think it was one of the main weapons in the phalanxes) please correct me if i'm wrong but it was like a spear and javelin all in one. shorter range but once a foe was impaled the shaft would come out so the point would stay inside the enemy.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 11:58 PM
link   
reply to post by zeitaro
 


Absolutely, no good soldier would go into battle without a knife as a back up weapon. They can be thrown, if weighted properly, hidden easily and used to make yourself a spear in a survival situation. Essential.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 07:58 AM
link   
reply to post by zeitaro
 


The Roman javelin (pilium I think too, or something) was used to incapacitate shields or too break up enemy mass groups. The light javelin was thrown by the entire roman unit aimed at individual targets as opposed to a general volley (like longbows) and if blocked by shields would lodge in the shield making it cumbersome and useless, the barbed points ensured that it could not be easily removed. The enemy would then face a shield wall and the gladius thrust from cover at their midsections without their own shield for protection. The generally un-disciplined enemy would crush his own forces in the front against the Roman phalanx rendering (generally speaking in Europe) the enemies choice for long swords or large axes useless. Belly-to-shield is where you want a gladius!
The javelin is of course a from of spear.
Greek fire has never been identified and therefore should not be listed IMO.
Catapults and trebuchets are more effective in movies and video games than in real life, unless of course you count lobbing corpses over walls. The best seige weapon is attrition (investment) and in classical times of course mining. A pile of burning pigs stuck under a stone wall ended more fortresses than any catapult or trebuchet barrage.

We on this thread are also happily engaged with comparing ancient weapons with medieval weapons. Are we opening this up to all pre-industrial weapons?



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 01:25 PM
link   
In practice the pike proved unbeatable when used in formation. It continued well into the age of firearms -- 'pike & shot' -- and was only replaced by the bayonet, which turns the rifle into a crude pike and which persists today.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 05:38 PM
link   
I reckon it is the Longbow. Mainly because their was a time when all Englishmen had to practice with it. Sheer number of users makes it the best.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 05:27 AM
link   
The longbow is way over-rated - remember, the longbow-armed English lost the Hundrd years War against the French. it's useful defenseively, but otherwise limited.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 11:51 PM
link   
The longbow, and I mean the REALLY long bow, of the english and welsh, was the .50 caliber rifle of the time.

Stone slings were more deadly at longer ranges than all bows and spears up until the longbow came along.

The chinese autoloading crossbow was the fastest shooting weapon up until the repeating rifle came along.


If you can't afford or don't have the training to use the longest range personal weapons like a longow or the sniper rifle, then your best bet is to go with a fast shooting easy handling weapon and get in close, need very minimal training for that. That is why the AK47 is popular and what it was made for. And why I have weapons for ALL ranges.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:25 PM
link   
Like others have said it's difficult to name top weapons when their efficiency depends on target and context. For simplicity and survival the sling is hard to beat, I've heard it said that a skilled user can sling a stone nearly as fast as a handgun bullet with the right technique. You can make a sling from plant materials almost anywhere if you're desperate and these days you can stuff one in your pocket with arousing suspicion if the authorities check you over - you can even carry a few stones as ammo, after all carrying pebbles is not yet an arrestable offense.

The weapon I'm most involved in is the bow, as I'm trying to learn to make them myself. For most situations you can't beat an Asiatic horse bow, a good one can fire a light arrow fast enough to punch though a standard concrete breeze block. The long bow is an excellent weapon but there are more efficient designs. Longbow was mainly used in the 80-200 lbs range for hurling heavy arrows at knights and infantry in armour. Someone mentioned ourselves as a weapon - a sword not being able to wield itself - so can we also count horses in too then? Horse archers were some of the most effective and deadly armies against standard infantry and cavalry. The bow is very useful and is not just for killing people, it can be used for starting fires at a distance, sending an audible or visual signal to an teammate or firing a projectile to distract patrolling opponents away from your position.

Someone commented that a shield could protect them from an archer. That I think is not true. There isn't any traditional shield light enough to carry that could stop an asiatic bow or a directly aimed european war bow - I say directly aimed because the common thing was to fire up into the sky and rain arrows down on the enemy but that long flight path gives the arrow more time to slow down and lose energy, so by the time it reaches your shield it may not have enough energy to punch through. If you want guaranteed protection from a powerful bow I suggest you hide behind quarter inch steel, solid concrete or thick sandbags - even an simple 40-50 lbs bow can punch arrows clean through the 1-2 mm steel they make garage doors from. So if an archer attacks you don't bother hiding in a vehicle thinking you're safe, because you're not - unless it's bulletproof armoured! lol

Regarding blades, I have a fancy with asian styles. For melee the chinese broadsword appeals to me (they are 19th century "peasant army" design though and not ancient). The Pu Dao (Horse Knife) seems great for extended range melee, very dangerous and at about 70 inches long nobody can get near you, good for both stabbing and slicing.

As for those Romans, they were only successful against standard rank and file opponents or hordes on open terrain. Us celts whipped their arse with our forest based strategy of run out, kick'em, run back into the trees, hide and repeat. Their fancy formations weren't much good against that, especially if they could be lured into the trees, which I doubt they would because they would know they can't do their formations in trees.

What was that idea you mentioned about burning pigs under a fort wall? Are we talking stone or wooden walls?

I can understand what someone said about the halbard being very versatile. I think if you were a warrior carrying a bow, halbard / Pu Dao, axe and knife you'd be pretty damn tough by traditional standards. If you're skill was good enough, like the famous beserkers or ninjas, then you wouldn't need to bother with a shield.

Can we also consider the blowpipe? Used with poisoned darts it's very dangerous and almost silent to operate. Amazon indians use a poison that paralyses prey, such as monkeys, dead in under 5 seconds.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:25 PM
link   
Like others have said it's difficult to name top weapons when their efficiency depends on target and context. For simplicity and survival the sling is hard to beat, I've heard it said that a skilled user can sling a stone nearly as fast as a handgun bullet with the right technique. You can make a sling from plant materials almost anywhere if you're desperate and these days you can stuff one in your pocket with arousing suspicion if the authorities check you over - you can even carry a few stones as ammo, after all carrying pebbles is not yet an arrestable offense.

The weapon I'm most involved in is the bow, as I'm trying to learn to make them myself. For most situations you can't beat an Asiatic horse bow, a good one can fire a light arrow fast enough to punch though a standard concrete breeze block. The long bow is an excellent weapon but there are more efficient designs. Longbow was mainly used in the 80-200 lbs range for hurling heavy arrows at knights and infantry in armour. Someone mentioned ourselves as a weapon - a sword not being able to wield itself - so can we also count horses in too then? Horse archers were some of the most effective and deadly armies against standard infantry and cavalry. The bow is very useful and is not just for killing people, it can be used for starting fires at a distance, sending an audible or visual signal to an teammate or firing a projectile to distract patrolling opponents away from your position.

Someone commented that a shield could protect them from an archer. That I think is not true. There isn't any traditional shield light enough to carry that could stop an asiatic bow or a directly aimed european war bow - I say directly aimed because the common thing was to fire up into the sky and rain arrows down on the enemy but that long flight path gives the arrow more time to slow down and lose energy, so by the time it reaches your shield it may not have enough energy to punch through. If you want guaranteed protection from a powerful bow I suggest you hide behind quarter inch steel, solid concrete or thick sandbags - even an simple 40-50 lbs bow can punch arrows clean through the 1-2 mm steel they make garage doors from. So if an archer attacks you don't bother hiding in a vehicle thinking you're safe, because you're not - unless it's bulletproof armoured! lol

Regarding blades, I have a fancy with asian styles. For melee the chinese broadsword appeals to me (they are 19th century "peasant army" design though and not ancient). The Pu Dao (Horse Knife) seems great for extended range melee, very dangerous and at about 70 inches long nobody can get near you, good for both stabbing and slicing.

As for those Romans, they were only successful against standard rank and file opponents or hordes on open terrain. Us celts whipped their arse with our forest based strategy of run out, kick'em, run back into the trees, hide and repeat. Their fancy formations weren't much good against that, especially if they could be lured into the trees, which I doubt they would because they would know they can't do their formations in trees.

What was that idea you mentioned about burning pigs under a fort wall? Are we talking stone or wooden walls?

I can understand what someone said about the halbard being very versatile. I think if you were a warrior carrying a bow, halbard / Pu Dao, axe and knife you'd be pretty damn tough by traditional standards. If you're skill was good enough, like the famous beserkers or ninjas, then you wouldn't need to bother with a shield.

Can we also consider the blowpipe? Used with poisoned darts it's very dangerous and almost silent to operate. Amazon indians use a poison that paralyses prey, such as monkeys, dead in under 5 seconds.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:25 PM
link   
Like others have said it's difficult to name top weapons when their efficiency depends on target and context. For simplicity and survival the sling is hard to beat, I've heard it said that a skilled user can sling a stone nearly as fast as a handgun bullet with the right technique. You can make a sling from plant materials almost anywhere if you're desperate and these days you can stuff one in your pocket with arousing suspicion if the authorities check you over - you can even carry a few stones as ammo, after all carrying pebbles is not yet an arrestable offense.

The weapon I'm most involved in is the bow, as I'm trying to learn to make them myself. For most situations you can't beat an Asiatic horse bow, a good one can fire a light arrow fast enough to punch though a standard concrete breeze block. The long bow is an excellent weapon but there are more efficient designs. Longbow was mainly used in the 80-200 lbs range for hurling heavy arrows at knights and infantry in armour. Someone mentioned ourselves as a weapon - a sword not being able to wield itself - so can we also count horses in too then? Horse archers were some of the most effective and deadly armies against standard infantry and cavalry. The bow is very useful and is not just for killing people, it can be used for starting fires at a distance, sending an audible or visual signal to an teammate or firing a projectile to distract patrolling opponents away from your position.

Someone commented that a shield could protect them from an archer. That I think is not true. There isn't any traditional shield light enough to carry that could stop an asiatic bow or a directly aimed european war bow - I say directly aimed because the common thing was to fire up into the sky and rain arrows down on the enemy but that long flight path gives the arrow more time to slow down and lose energy, so by the time it reaches your shield it may not have enough energy to punch through. If you want guaranteed protection from a powerful bow I suggest you hide behind quarter inch steel, solid concrete or thick sandbags - even an simple 40-50 lbs bow can punch arrows clean through the 1-2 mm steel they make garage doors from. So if an archer attacks you don't bother hiding in a vehicle thinking you're safe, because you're not - unless it's bulletproof armoured! lol

Regarding blades, I have a fancy with asian styles. For melee the chinese broadsword appeals to me (they are 19th century "peasant army" design though and not ancient). The Pu Dao (Horse Knife) seems great for extended range melee, very dangerous and at about 70 inches long nobody can get near you, good for both stabbing and slicing.

As for those Romans, they were only successful against standard rank and file opponents or hordes on open terrain. Us celts whipped their arse with our forest based strategy of run out, kick'em, run back into the trees, hide and repeat. Their fancy formations weren't much good against that, especially if they could be lured into the trees, which I doubt they would because they would know they can't do their formations in trees.

What was that idea you mentioned about burning pigs under a fort wall? Are we talking stone or wooden walls?

I can understand what someone said about the halbard being very versatile. I think if you were a warrior carrying a bow, halbard / Pu Dao, axe and knife you'd be pretty damn tough by traditional standards. If you're skill was good enough, like the famous beserkers or ninjas, then you wouldn't need to bother with a shield.

Can we also consider the blowpipe? Used with poisoned darts it's very dangerous and almost silent to operate. Amazon indians use a poison that paralyses prey, such as monkeys, dead in under 5 seconds.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:48 PM
link   
Why did my post show three times? All I did was click "preview" and then "post".



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:48 PM
link   
Why did my post show three times? All I did was click "preview" and then "post".



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 01:03 AM
link   
Actually I do not beleive the greatest weapon was the norse axe per say...though I will say the bearded axe wether norse or other wise, is my favorite hand to hand blade, tool,cleaving, ripping (thus the beard), and when spiked a great armor piercer. The norse gift to weaponry wasn't the axe....it was their steel......their metalergy.

The greatest weapon in my mind however was the shield......with the shield came the use of coordinated units, and the Phalanx. I know, I know you may not consider a shield a weapon, but i do, it is after all a tool of war. Which one of these is still used by police today? The Phalanx is still used today with great effectivess. It is the weapon of discipline.

If you won't consider it a weapon I would say the spear. Weather in Feudal Japan, or in Roman Legions, or among Zulu Warriors....it was the spear the provided the most devistation. Indeed in feudal Japan an expert spearman mercanary was paid MUCH more then a mere swordsman. A master of the spear is likely to tag any other would be melee combatant 3-5 times before he gets in range with an axe or a sword etc.

A spear and shield especially when coordinated are much more useful then an axe, sword, katana, and sometimes can even overcome a bow. Unless it's mobile.

ANd that would be my next pick. The recurve bow, allowing mounted archers was probably one of the single most devestating advancements on the battlefield....moble archers will make short work of ANY group of ancient soldiers no matter their hand weapons....

Just my own biased opinions......

as to the rest...
I probably would add the spainish falcata (was able to make short work of early armor, and was just very well designed in blade geometry), the atlatl (going really ancient, but tell me would you consider hunting Mamoth with an axe or sword?), the rapier (speed wins over brute force), and the trebuchet (fortifications can be tombs)in there as well......

But yeah, I do love me a bearded axe.........esp when it's in tomahawk form.

[edit on 11/7/2008 by ForkandSpoon]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 01:22 PM
link   
each weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses but watching a couple related TV programs on cable has shown me what i believe was the most effective and resourcefull weapon of past times

make sure to think about production time and such, a samarai sword may be highly effective but due to having probably the longest production times back then it would probably be a major factor

I have to agree and say the Roman "Gladius"/short sword is very close to being no 1 cos it's (I Believe):

-lightweight and easy to carry as a main or back up weapon
-the standard length would be effective to pierce into important organs (unlike daggers/knifes) from weakspots in enemy armour
-the standard length may be shorter than a long sword but is more flexible in terms of stabbing or slashing style
-less metal used in production means if it's properly made by a pro, it can be turned into much harder/stronger weapon with less possibility of breakage (long swords would have longer to make plus it would of been harder to make it into steel once "steel" had been founded)
-it's weakness' are balanced out by it's strengths
-easier to train and less fatigue from attacks

also on one of the shows he did mention the gladius was the preferred weapon of choice

-------------------------------some cons for the other weapon types mentioned

spears:
-the tip is further from where you are so i'd imagine it would be harder to aim at weak spots
-depending on the material used to produce it, it is probably easy to "snap" against shield or armor
-not effective with close encounters

Bow & Arrow:
-hard to train

axes:
-during production it would be hard to make the bulky axe a more pure steel

samurai swords:
-probably the most hardest and longest production time

that's all i can think of for now...........


oh yeh couple othe things to tink abot
if were talkin heavy weapons then a ballista for sure

trebuchets were the more accurate type of catapult im guessin' so they'd would be good

caltrops are them little metal things that can be thrown on the floor to stop either human, horse or camel

probably the best cannon type of weapon would be the early Culverin, you wouldn't waste time shooting a cannonball at just one person with a normal cannon, so a hand cannon (culverin/musket) would be highly effective on armoured enemies because even if it does'nt penetrate the armor it would most likely "dint" the armor inward and cause the enemy extreme blunt force

[edit on 23/7/08 by angryjessman]



new topics

top topics



 
1
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join