Humans - the most developed civilization in the universe...

Originally posted by spacevisitor
And do you still find “it also positive in that at least we know it.
I definitely don’t.

Well, I find the inverse to be revolting. To be the source of this much damage, ruin, and fear.....and not realize it; nor, have the ideals that recognizes our faults...to be unthinkably horrible.

Knowing we're faulty, and having higher aspirations, may very well be a pinnacle of species evolution. We don't know different.

And about the part of people finding it hard to contemplate.....It's my opinion, that many people, because of their recognition of our faults as a species, grasp at what they sincerely hope is some higher, advanced species that has risen above the brutality we practice. Because the pain they feel as a resident of this planet is so horrible.....the realization or reflection that "this is it"....sucks. And leads them to project their hopes of higher virtues on "others"...without the taint of our miserable humanity.

Don't take this as condemning the entire human existence. I'm perfectly aware of the often mystical, awe-inspiring, and wonderful acts performed everyday. Unfortunately, by individuals. Our behavior on this planet is one of the instances where statistics is the key....on the whole...we haven't done well. Woe betide us if we are the top of the ladder.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by MrPenny]

reply to post by MrPenny

Knowing we're faulty, and having higher aspirations, may very well be a pinnacle of species evolution. We don't know different.

EXACTLY WE DONT KNOW DIFFERENT-ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,it points more towards we are not alone though.

Originally posted by jkrog08
EXACTLY WE DONT KNOW DIFFERENT-ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,it points more towards we are not alone though.

"We"? Speak for yourself

Originally posted by jkrog08
EXACTLY WE DONT KNOW DIFFERENT-ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,it points more towards we are not alone though.

Actually, it doesn't. We have no idea; we have no evidence pointing to either conclusion.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Well we have more people saying we are not alone than people saying we are.Im not just talking about abductees and people who have seen UFOs either.Scientist agree that it is highly likely we are not alone.Very few people anymore think we are.Also just use logic man-do you really think in the whole universe with 70 sextillion stars at last est. that we are the only planet w/ intelligent life?I think not.

Were definitly not alone, in fact i bet were probaly looked at as the retarded little brother of the universe

Originally posted by jkrog08
do you really think in the whole universe with 70 sextillion stars at last est. that we are the only planet w/ intelligent life?I think not.

Very few people, reasonably informed, will argue against the possibility of other life....more may argue about the intelligence level of that life, if any.

The thesis here is that we, the humans on this planet, could be the highest intelligence anywhere. I know, I know.....what about UFOs?!!??? Abductions!!??? I haven't seen anything that clearly says they're not a natural phenomena we do not understand.

I guess it's possible that we are the most advanced but I have a hard time accepting it. Like you said we have advanced very quickly as a species since the first humans and we could easily be "behind" another planet by a billion or so years in existence of intelligent life.

Just think that not even 100 years ago, people would probably not be able to comprehend us posting messages/conversing on a medium such as this, or a cell phone, or a bunch of other stuff we have. Just think what could and probably is out there that we can't even imagine. I mean by 2108 there will probably be stuff on Earth that would blow our mind. Thats why I don't doubt intergalactic travel and the like is possible for some very advanced civilizations.

Originally posted by jkrog08
.Also just use logic man-do you really think in the whole universe with 70 sextillion stars at last est. that we are the only planet w/ intelligent life?I think not.

I am using logic. The universe is a very dangerous place. So many variables exist that can prevent life from developing in the first place, much less intelligent life. Asteroid impacts, stars going supernova, bursts of solar radiation, just to name a few. And then there are the dangers that exist after intelligent life develops; they could kill themselves through accident or design. It is entirely possible that we may be the only intelligent life, or that we are the most advanced intelligent life.

If we're the best, then congratulations to us!

The odds are pretty heavy against it, but then again the odds are against any one person winning the lottery. Yet, somebody always wins eventually.

One thing I'll say is that if this is as good as life gets, I would like a refund. :-)

Just for some mind gymnastics, I'd like to challenge the very premise of this thread... The concepts of "WE" and "DEVELOPED".

"WE" seem to have developed this notion that "WE" are somehow a separate entity than everything that is "NOT WE". Why refer to it as life on earth when it is the earth itself that is alive and it is the earth that is the developed entity, which has produced limitless configurations of protein combinations. The ones that could find a way to self generate and reproduce developed increasingly complex enabler bodies with increasingly complex brains to ensure the proteins survival. So who is really surviving? "WE" are simply an occurrence. A mere spark of repeatable energy configuration.

Most likely since it helps with survival, "WE" also seem to have developed a notion that we are simply not good enough. Becoming the permanent top of the food chain, and finding cleverer and cleverer ways of survival, still thinking that we have to keep "DEVELOPING" ourselves so that we can feed greater populations that is necessary to produce even more in order to feed even greater populations.... All the meanwhile, imagining a future-better version of ourselves and using it as a measuring stick to come to the conclusion that we are still not "DEVELOPED" enough.

All of it self-importance at best.... And simply and imaginary galactic carrot that we shall never taste. However "DEVELOPED" we may get, it will never be enough, and however much knowledge we may acquire and accumulate about the universe, however many life forms we may eventually encounter in our neck of the woods, it will simply re-define the meaning of "WE" for the generation of that moment. And the literal we, the readers and contributors of this site will definitely not be there to see it.

So you think we developed the fastest? If thats what you mean then I disagree. Why? Well Human remains have been dated back a million years. I think its slow actually, but we can never know.

Interesting post and yes I think it warrants thought. Now, for the record. I agree with many other postings on this thread. I think the universe is so damn enormous that logically you have to assume that most likely there is other very intelligent life. Also we as humans probably only acquired about one percent of knowledge that there is to be gained. I personally think that it would be ignorant and or arrogant to assume we are it.

Having said this…. I am not entirely convinced on the UFO phenomena either. I say this… There is about 10 to 20 very good UFO cases that provide very decent evidence… Not enough to make a definitive conclusion but enough to warrant a worldwide intensive scientific study. Therefore it would be ignorant to say UFO’s do not exist. See where I am going with all this…. Interesting lil fact… There is more evidence of UFO’s then there is of Jesus and God… If you believe in UFO’s then you are nutz… if you believe in Jesus and God, you are normal… I do not get this… Sorry for the tangent….

reply to post by LoneWeasel



GREAT POST!! I have benn floating that idea around to friends for years. What if we are the "first"?? Maybe the little grey dudes with bug eyes are us a million years from now time traveling........I know I am not the first to post that, but that is my take on things.

Originally posted by samureyed
Now think about this..

What about the theory that there are multiple universes. Perhaps billions? Who's to say? Billions of universes with billions of galaxies containing billions of stars... it makes my brain hurt to think about.

When I get to that point in the thought process, I become gladdened by the fact that the only possible explanation that any human being could comprehend for such a massive creation would be God?

Considering that the 'common people' on this Planet are basically 'good' people, it seems to me that we all have something 'missing' to allow a relatively tiny group of criminal retards to dictate, rob and murder us in our thousands, and sometimes millions.
Try as I might I cannot see anything 'advanced' here, we should , by now, ALL be enjoying free energy and living in HARMONY.
Love and Peace to all,
Horsegiver.

reply to post by may_be_true


Really interesting post, may_be_true - starred - the concept that feeling under-developed is a survival tactic in particular.

I accept what you say up to a point - but I think my view is that at a certain point in time evolution of life on earth changed gear when it came to humans. The origins of our existence are unquestionably the earth - but we are the only species on earth who have given themselves the tantilising possibility of changing that circumstance - we are a freak, in the sense that there is the chance we may not one day be dependent on that home world any longer.

If you take your analysis of the earth and its life as a model - whose to say that our freakishness - for want of a better word - isn't unique in the universe as a whole? In other words, what if planet-as-life-sustainer is the consistent model throughout the universe, with all life on other planets dependent on their home worlds and not evolving to challenge that dependency? What if dependency on a home world is "industry standard" for life in the universe - and what if we're the only ones who by chance of evolution have developed the possibility to extricate ourselves from our original environment?

LW

We as humans have already beat the odds by being the most advanced creatures on earth. The are many life forms here and we are at the top. Some one or some race has to be on top in the universe but I doubt that it is us.

A couple of things to note.

With any development of a life form you also have to factor in the chance
of that life form developing fast enought to beat an extinction event such as asteroid strike etc.
Thats why our rapid devlopment is so important.
You would asume than in 100 years time we would have the technology to avoid such an event.
So if you think that such an event happens every few million years and we have developed over the last few thousand years then we simply cannot be the most advanced species in the universe.

Playing the odds

Originally posted by WAKA2002
A couple of things to note.

With any development of a life form you also have to factor in the chance
of that life form developing fast enought to beat an extinction event such as asteroid strike etc.
Thats why our rapid devlopment is so important.

Thanks WAKA - I guess all I'm saying is that said chance could in fact be absolutely tiny! I suppose one could argue philosophically that it's practically impossible to have a one off event in a near infinite universe.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that there are 5 such species in the universe. Let's play the odds some more.

Planet 1 is Earth, and us.

Two of the other planets have a dominant species much younger than us - say homo sapiens near the beginning of its evolutionary existence.

One planet has the evolutionary wherewithall - in that it has a species as intelligent and good at problem solving as we are, but lacks the raw materials to do anything about a meteor strike - it just doesn't have the energy reserves we do to escape. It probably devotes its intelligence to writing really deep poetry musing on the pointlessness of its existence...

The final planet has a species very similar to ours in terms of capabilities and intelligence, but (believe it or not) that species is genetically speaking even LESS pleasant than we are - and even more self-destructive. So its technological advances are even more geared around beating the proverbial out of one another than seeking betterment for the species as a whole....

You get what I'm driving at, I'm sure. The point is that all these odds are completely speculative. But if there are X many species in the universe that have reached our "gear", so as to speak, ie - a level of intelligence and development that allows them to combat challenges on a galactic scale (meteorites, cataclysmic events, etc) - there must be ONE of those species that is "better" overall than all the others. And so it follows that it is possible that we are that species...

LW