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McCain Proposes League of Democracies

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posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by Apolon
 



Originally posted by Apolon
I really hope this smiley is there for a cheeky response. Read my post above and many others and tell me if you see difference between hating current government and People from USA in general.

Oh, geez, sorry about that. Maybe it was what you said:




Majority of us here shares believe that US is one of the most corrupt government in the world


Speak for yourself, Apolon.


Originally posted by Apolon
I wish People start commenting on the posts rather then using old proven tactics, if you can't beet them, lie and discredit the Person who doesn't think like you.


You mean like talking about Jews and the Kennedy assassination, which have nothing to do with the topic?

reply to post by JanusFIN
 


Originally posted by JanusFIN
This proposal reminds from GW Bush words: "You are with us, or with terrorists"

So, after years has gone, McCain wants to make that conclusion. "If you had work against US interests in recent years, you are out, but those who has done and said nothing against these lethal acts of US, you are in!"


So where did McCain say that, JanusFIN? Or are you just making things up? It appears that you are just making things up. Who can believe anything you say after that?



Originally posted by JanusFIN
This is like the last step of fascism, the real "axis of evil" for me. Imperialism is a disease, what has overtake US. In the light of history, this disease should be past, long time ago.


Hah! This from someone who admires Nazis so much that he quotes one in his signature!:shk:




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


You are right that has nothing to do with mcain. I was following 3 different treads and responded like that thinking about other post. My bad


However, I didn't want to change the post later because it does in a way explains what I meant by twisting other Peoples words by calling them/me Bigots and why do we hate USA!
WE don't hate USA! I hate government that is residing in a white house and those zealots who are actually electing them in there in the first place ( and that is not People who actually voted for bush) but same scum who run and own federal reserve, oil and pharmaceutical business etc..



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


what a horse # response...

Why don't you comment on what he says instead of trying to discredit his opinion by putting words in HIS mouth.

how ridiculous.

by your logic . you must worship McCain...hope your knees dont hurt too bad


anyway, seems much like some b.s. ploy to reel in the rest of the non-esoteric world, for some neo-con agenda, under the auspices of a "Democratic League"....


don't trust him for a minute...and for those who want to play partisan crap, I dont trust clinton and I don't know enough about Obama...

do something substantial for world peace first. you can start by taking the U.S. out of other countries...that might help
. Once you have PROVEN your true intentions then you can start to consider another 'coalition of the ludicrous' or "League of Democracy"..whatever you want to call it



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by abelievingskeptic
 



Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
reply to post by jsobecky
 


what a horse # response...

Why don't you comment on what he says instead of trying to discredit his opinion by putting words in HIS mouth.

Before you come in here and talk trash, you might learn how to use the correct reply to tags. Or else you end up pinning the tail on your own arse, as you did.


Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
by your logic . you must worship McCain...hope your knees dont hurt too bad


See what I mean? Your thoughts are like a train wreck, impossible to follow. All you're capable of is making fun of a war hero's injuries.

Pathetic.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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McCain's idea has gone down very well in Europe, especially on the right spectrum of politics.

Personally, even though I am on the Liberal Left, I like this idea very much. It's a good thing. McCain should go further and add a free trade agreement to it, that would be very interesting and a popular move on the international stage.

Hopefully all the candidates in the US general election take up this policy



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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The personal attacks stop now please.



Any further sniping will result in appropriate action being taken.

Please stick to the topic at hand and carry on with the insightful and meaningful discussion

Lest we all forget, Courtesy is Mandatory



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


im pretty sure you got the idea



Before you come in here and talk trash


if you think that is talkin trash, you got another thing comin my friend. if you would like ill be happy to give you lessons for the low low price of free 99!



All you're capable of is making fun of a war hero's injuries.


i dont know what you are talking about. obviously my comment went flyin above your head at about 10,000 feet. that is prob a good thing though.

but my comment stands. maybe it was a little harsh, but that kind of mentality doesn't get anyone anywhere. and speaking as a veteran of the U.S. Navy i can assure you it was not appreciated.

as there are those in every country, the nationalist attitude of "you say a negative thing about my leader so you must hate my country..." crap is so old and does nothing but shed false light on others who carry and uphold that flag with honor.



Pathetic.


indeed.

hope that was easier for you to follow


edit for typos

[edit on 9/16/07 by abelievingskeptic]



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


I didnt say there reads, it reminds, like I said, because this goes with this continuing US attitude in their black/white world, where there are evil and god, good and the bad. World is not so simple, its much more multipolar than you seems to understand, with many degrees in it.

Thanks from reading my signature too, but in memory of Rommel I have to defend, and we all should remember that he was only German general, never accused from war crimes, but totally opposite, from to be the "last true gentleman of battle zones." Also two allied general has wrote a book from him after the war: That is true respect what we should learn!

Respecting wisdom has nothing to do with ideology, what I see is in your mind very badly confused.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by infinite
 


How can you say that you are Left Liberal, if you agree in building more, and more political institutions and power structures?

In my eyes you have no clue what Liberal even means...



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Speak for yourself, Apolon.


He may have overstated with the "MAJORITY" bit, but there is a definitely huge chunk of the U.S. populace who believes our government is rotten to the core, partly because of it lying with the Corporate Mega-conglomerates and playing towards the interests of Big Money and special interest.

It could be a Majority. I haven't heard a lot of people that are happy with our government, and I talk to people from all over the states. There is a general sense of dissatisfaction, malcontentedness, and helplessness on the matter. Of course, I have also met people like yourself; some of which argue that things are going smashingly well.



You mean like talking about Jews and the Kennedy assassination, which have nothing to do with the topic?


Okay, both JSObecky and Apolon, however frustrated you are with the people posting, let's not make it about them.

As for Kennedy and Jews, maybe Apolon feels they ARE involved in this conversation. It is due to note that some feel the lobby for Israel is directly influential concerning things like international governing groups (At least when it comes to the U.S.).



So where did McCain say that, JanusFIN? Or are you just making things up? It appears that you are just making things up. Who can believe anything you say after that?


I am fairly sure he was making inference from past comments made by McCain. Some quotes as to McCain's views on the matter would be helpful, and I am positively certain that they exist.



Hah! This from someone who admires Nazis so much that he quotes one in his signature!:shk:


You're essentially calling someone a Nazi here, or at least stating that JanusFIN likes Nazi's.

Herman Goerring had a lot of choice quotes, as did Adolf Hitler, Moussolini and Stalin. These were not small minded folks that commited these atrocities, they were just people blind with ambition for power.

Which definitely seems to be the ghost driving our current process today.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by JanusFIN
 


No, promoting freedom and liberty is a liberal value. Liberals believe in a society based on a democracy, justice and law. This is what the League of Democracies will be built on. The fact you believe liberalism is something else shows your lack of understanding of political ideologies and theories in general. Or you are against democracy?


We on the liberal left believe in fighting for democracy, i.e why most of us supported the Iraq war. My judgement is not clouded by conspiracy thinking, there is nothing to suggest this has a hidden agenda. If you want to believe this is the NWO or illuminati, fine, that is your opinon and I am entitled to mine too


International organisations should be reformed to defend and promote democracy, it is not a neo-conservative idea, but common sense. Surely every citizen in this world should live under a democracy? Why cannot, for example, the people of Burma enjoy the same liberty as us in the West?

I, like most sain people in the world, believe in demoracy and so I support this idea.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by infinite
 


Free trade with the US is not such a good thing. As a Canadian under NAFTA, it hans't been the best thing for us. Look at the whole softwood lumber issue.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by infinite
 


No hostile thoughts, and I respect your views. I see Libeterians mostly fighting against bureaucracy, because it destroy the democracy they yes, do respect. Building international institutions are so easy to see as opposite of that dream...

Sorry, I have lost my believe to democracy in recent times. Its a good idea, but what lead us usually to bad situations, and patronising states. I believe to freedom, but I have lost my believe to nations.

I see that we are talking about our dream worlds...

Earth is a beautiful place, and life a ultimate challenge. Problems, our nations causes our greatest concerns, and its all about our leaders, cause they come with wrong means, and by accident and pressure, or just with their noble family names...

In my dream world there would be no rush. Like wisdom is timeless, so would be my government too, and those who run as our greatest leaders, would have no rush in their decisions, and scared to be overthrown by their mistakes. Based on human nature, and differences in our minds, we should pick up our best individuals to that philosophic positions.

There is many people, but a great minority, who has that collective mind. Those, who feel that there is nothing more important, than our combined cause, and they spend their life to think about its problems. In my dream world, like those who has that religious minds, goes to churches and temples, collective minded our government would pick up, and put them as mations future political leaders. Its very different kind of structure than we see today.

Politics are made to everyone now, but only minority understands it, and votes with their brains in important common issues. Its because that only great minority is really interested from those, and have that needed collective mind, but in democracy, they do have only that common right to vote, just once. Then the majority, ruled by active propaganda, and its lethal greed and hided agenda, comes, and turns all the wisdoms upside down. And those who see where it leads, suffer more, when nations go finally broke.

I call that todays: "Majoritys fascism in democracy"

Life is not a joke, but our nations are ruled with jokes. Those who dont understand a bit what issues are really about, they vote because nice jokes they still remember from evening broadcasts... I dont believe to elections, not, if they are made amongst careless peoples. In my dream world, we still had a a chance to talk, to discuss with our leaders in those great forums, witch would be always open, because those students of politics would always be interested from public thoughts, we still would have possibility to change the way its future goings, if we were really concerned.

But from those who makes the steps, and carry the hardest responsibility, as our political leaders, have to commit their lives to public service. Like Munks. And when taking that final step, before to be as a "government man", should be also that step, when you leave all your personal greed behind. No fortunes, no privat stocks, or funds. But dedication for common causes, and you get national maintenance from that decission.

No salary, but also no future kick outs. Just upgrades, and downgrades because your public respect. ( Can be voted ) But we all learn from our mistakes. Government should be that finest university of all wisdoms, learned by mistakes or by past, and politicians, those who understand that greatest value in life is to be lightened from philosophy, and our humanistic facts... They would run my country.

I see, that there is many among us, who could dedicate their life, and make always their best for community and its causes. But corruption, and bloodlines, direct us, this system what we call democracy, and witch is many times driven by only individual greeds, and those who has the real concerns, and talent, dedication in their minds, are ignored, and kicked by majority of blinded sheeps. In my dream world, nations politicals would be the wisest, and many times, the oldest mans and womans.

Oh, I love dreams, and my imagination.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 03:33 PM
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It is on the face of it the best idea McCain has had in terms of foreign policy. It certainly appears to counterbalance his hawkish stand on Iraq.

After the last 2 presidential terms of George W Bush, the USA is much less of a republic or a democracy today than it was in the days of President Eisenhower. I know many if not most of those who post here at ATS weren't alive then, but he was a remarkable president and the USA was intentionally and functionally the best republic of its day. Yes, the military-industrial complex was making its ascent, but Eisenhower was fighting it tooth and nail.

Sadly, McCain is very much a tool of the military-industrial complex, and who can vouch for the integrity of his mind after what he experienced in Viet Nam. Not to dishonour the man for his service to his country and his endurance whilst being imprisoned, but no man could come out of that situation without at the least suffering PTSD and at the worst enduring God knows what at the hands of his North Vietnamese captors who did like to engage in brainwashing and programming of its prisoners.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by JanusFIN
 


There is a difference between Liberals and Libertarians


Over the last five years, my views have changed on politics and politicians. I do not believe there is some sort of selection by a secret government, far from it now. Maybe due to the fact I got to see things on the inside instead of the outside.

I've become more suspicious of politicians who claim a conspiracy then those who don't. I believe in globalisation, a federal Europe and even a North America Union. Those are my views.

Of course, our parliaments and governments need reforms. Direct democracy and voting reform is need in all West democracies, but a sea of change is sweeping the Western World and voters are demanding, voting and crying for change.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by infinite
 


I have never feel that I belong to any available political group, but I really liked Ron Paul. I hope we find his kind of guys to Europe too... Maybe its just because I see my self them so black and white... Its very good that you regonize your believes, and you have wisdom to set them as different forms.

Basically, I am just a dreamer...


Now I will concentrate to that Esoteric-Movie, witch has been downloaded at this while... Will that be that "best film, ever" ... I keep my mind open. It was nice talking to you!



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by JanusFIN
 



Originally posted by JanusFIN
reply to post by jsobecky
 


I didnt say there reads, it reminds, like I said, because this goes with this continuing US attitude in their black/white world, where there are evil and god, good and the bad.

You are referring to what you said about Bush. What I meant was what you said about McCain:


So, after years has gone, McCain wants to make that conclusion. "If you had work against US interests in recent years, you are out, but those who has done and said nothing against these lethal acts of US, you are in!"


How can you make such a statement? Have you ever heard McCain say that, or words to that effect? No you haven't. He has offered the exact opposite, as a matter of fact. What you do when you make false statements is to spread disinfo.


Originally posted by JanusFIN
World is not so simple, its much more multipolar than you seems to understand, with many degrees in it.

You seem to practice moral relativism. That means anyone and everyone can be right. But it is a lazy person's way of thinking.

So everybody and anybody can be right, in your eyes.

Except for the US, of course, which you easily classify as corrupt.



Originally posted by JanusFIN
Thanks from reading my signature too, but in memory of Rommel I have to defend, and we all should remember that he was only German general, never accused from war crimes, but totally opposite, from to be the "last true gentleman of battle zones." Also two allied general has wrote a book from him after the war: That is true respect what we should learn!


And many learned people wrote books on Hitler, too. That does not mean he is worthy of respect.

What you are saying is, Rommel was one of the "good Nazis".
Sorry, I disagree.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by jsobecky]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 04:23 AM
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I felt the need to bump this because McCain mentioned this “league of nations” and I discovered he has been talking about it for some time. I was surprised to see it is not just him BSing, it seems like he really does favor such a league, which would probably trump the UN. Sounds sort of like shady, NWO stuff to me.

From May 1, 2007:
Senator McCain Addresses The Hoover Institution on U.S. Foreign Policy


”The new League of Democracies would form the core of an international order of peace based on freedom”


"This League of Democracies would not supplant the United Nations or other international organizations. It would complement them. But it would be the one organization where the world's democracies could come together to discuss problems and solutions on the basis of shared principles and a common vision of the future. If I am elected president, I will call a summit of the world's democracies in my first year to seek the views of my democratic counterparts and begin exploring the practical steps necessary to realize this vision.”


Read full address at: www.johnmccain.com





[edit on 8-10-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]







 
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