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Unknown stealth fighter

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posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Today I visited Newark Air Museum in Lincolnshire with my son and while looking round the main exhibition hall I was stunned to see three wind tunnel models which appear to have been retrieved from the old Hawker Siddeley facility at Kingston where all Hawker fighters were produced from the Sopwith Pup to the Harrier GR.7.

The three models were each of a different aircraft but one in particular grabbed my attention. One (only fleetingly glimpsed in some of these pictures) was the Spey Phantom development model from the 1960's (Hawker Siddeley did this work at Kingston and produced UK Phantoms there as compensation for the scrapping of the P1154). The other is the the twin-boom ASTOVL HS P1216 from the early 1980's, I have seen several incarnations of this design and I was pleasantly surprised, but not shocked, to see this one.

The third however is a real mystery, it has all the hallmarks of JSF type design but is obviously not the design BAe shared with McDonnell Douglas (unless it is an early version of it) as it seems to have delta wings, rather than the Replica type shape that proposal featured. It has no canard and a butterfly tail, similar to the YF-23 but is also clearly not related to that either.

The really odd thing about this particular model is that it is stuck at the back out of the way, un-labelled and almost hidden, I only got these pictures by using the 10x zoom on my camera, and the side view shows how I had to peer past several other exhibits to get a shot of it at all. My only reason for associating it with Hawker Siddeley is the obvious origin of the other two models which it seems to 'belong' with.

Can anyone shed any light on this design?









And here is the P1216









posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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It is well known that hawker was testing out all sorts of wing designs for this project including some outlandish ones like the p1216

img.photobucket.com...

some more pics here

i9.photobucket.com...
and
prototypes.free.fr...

you might want to look through this lot too
prototypes.free.fr...



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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It looks very similar to the f-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Not sure of which this plane is though, perhaps they share a similar design pedigree?



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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I guess I should also add that the v-tail design does not mean stealth...it means less drag - the v-tail design was invented by a Polish engineer Jerzy Rudlicki in 1930, and first tested on a modified Hanriot H-28 trainer in 1931.

So not new...and nothing to do with stealth really...infact its used in commercial planes too.. see the Beechcraft Bonanza Model 35!




there is of course the remote possibility that the model has nothing to do with the others around it.

btw did you ask anyone at the museum?



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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Freakyclown, thanks for the reply though you may have misread my post. I am not looking for info on the P.1216, I already said I am familiar with it, thanks, but I am talking about the other design. I included the P.1216 photos as a matter of interest.

Nor am I assuming the unknown design is stealthy because of the butterfly tail, why would you think that?


As 44soulslayer pointed out in his reply, it does bear resemblance to the F-35 and has all the hallmarks of a design proposal to either JSF or JCA, which is why, along with several other nuances of the design overall (intakes, curvature, blending etc), I am assuming it would have some LO properties if it had been built.

I did ask the museum staff about it but they themselves know nothing about the design, only that the model came with the other two via private donation, and no, they don't know (or wont say) who that was. This is, as I said where my HSA Kingston association comes from but yes, there is a chance they are unrelated and came together only by chance. This is why I am wondering if anyone knows this design from anywhere? In the side view in the top photo the model does also bear a passing resemblance to an early ATF impression from Lockheed, but this also could be a coincidence as this design appears to be for a smaller single engine type.

Any relevant info would be greatly appreciated but with all due respect I don't think pointing out that the Beech Bonanza also had a butterfly tail is all that helpful


Your own photo of the P1216 also shows the Phantom and the "JSF" still in their boxes. It wasn't yours was it?

Also your 'i9 photobucket' link is a link to my own album, for I am Spartacus....well, WtMiller anyway. See, I told you I knew what the P.1216 was








[edit on 26-3-2008 by waynos]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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I'm thinking it's a YF-23, but I'm not sure.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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The first model is the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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It has quite a unique undercarriage design, unlike any I've seen on the F-35 and F-22. Maybe this is a clue?




posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


Okay its not an YF-23 as someone suggested.

It does bear a passing resemblance to the ill fated McDonnell Douglas / BAE/ NG entry in the JSF compettion that was axed in 1996.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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www.alexstoll.com...


^^ found that as the McDonald Douglas JAST/JSF entry

edit: it seems that BAe hooked up with MD sometime early 1990`s to offer the above - now the shape other than the wing is very similar to the model , especially when you view the usmc colour schemed version.


[edit on 27/3/08 by Harlequin]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by FredT
 


Yes, thats what I was thinking too Fred, (and Harlequin
) I think this is likely to be an early design on the road to the MDD/BAE proposal to meet JSF and JCA. On doing some research into this project since I posted it up I have found a couple of pictures that offer clues;

This first one for instance still has the separated intakes of the model, which were later lost on the definitive design when they were blended into the fuselage which is obviously better for stealth.



This second one seems to resemble the shape of the tail fairly closely, and the body is also the same despite the wing being very different.



The clincher for me seems to be this which is actually a diagram for the engine arrangement of the STOVL proposal, but just happens to be exactly the same shape as the model in every way. This therefore must be the origin, or have I missed something?





[edit on 26-3-2008 by waynos]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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Your last picture is certainly the clincher Waynos. The slight trailing edge sweep of the wings matches the model perfectly.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 08:09 PM
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The fighter in the first top pictures is the F-22 Raptor.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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In the ones Waynos posted? No, it's not. The model is a single engined fighter, with various other differences from the F-22. It definitely is NOT an F-22.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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Oops. Sorry bout that.

[edit on 3/26/2008 by Zaphod58]



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 07:23 AM
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I think your right on in your last post waynos. I really can't think of any other time that a design like that would of come out of hawker of BAE and the model when i first looked at it had so much in common to the 35 design and proportions that it would only make sense. Now i guess the next step is trying to track down the name/number of this model variant so the museum can label their model and the mystery laid to rest. Any idea where to start?



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 05:10 PM
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if we are going along the f35 STOVL variant line, then these websites may be of interest

www.faqs.org...


www.patentstorm.us... (an STOVL proposal from BAE in 1987!)

www.vtol.org... - in this text the author describes scale models.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 05:32 AM
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Could it be model someone has just made up to demonstrate the effects of aircraft shape and design on its RCS?

I ask this because there is a model of a shortened F117 type A/C with canards which is on display at Cosford's Museum and was produced specifically to demonstrate the effects of various shapes and angles on an A/C and how these can affect the aircraft's Radar signature.

Not sure who made it but as Cosford was/is the home of the RAF's technical training it might of been made there and used for teaching the new radar technicians about RCS and what affects it.

Just a thought...!

SV....out!



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Silentvulcan
 


When I posted that it was a wind tunnel model I did also wonder if it might be an RCS model instead. I do think it is an 'actual' design though as other general RCS models I've seen are more generic without provision for cockpits, intakes etc that this mopdel shows, being much more basic.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by waynos
 


doesn't it look a little to rough to be a RCS model? I'd side with the initial thought that it was for wind tunnel testing. Also the vertical stabilizers are quite large don't you think? They are almost as large as the wing as far as I can tell. Just something to point out. Its a interesting model and I wish I had time to actually look into it more.



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