Let's explore a different theory about 9/11 (My theory)

Originally posted by Lightworth
Sorry, but I've never heard of a plane crash before or since 9/11 where there wasn't enough wreckage to plainly identify it as such. OK, I've had enough. I think my insomnia is wearing off. Going back to bed. Toodles.

You obviously don’t know much about Plane Crashes in the past then, do your research please. But in saying that, identifiable parts of the aircrafts have been found at the WTC site and at the Pentagon, again I’m guessing you need to do more research.

Who really are the sheep? The people who believe the facts? or the people who “follow” the inside job theories?

Mikey

Sea Salt Sir: With due respect for your right to an opinion I disagree totally and absolutely. I've got a feeling your a Navy Vet no matter. I'm a baby boomer and veteran of combat in the Vietnam war. At any rate the evidence is overwhelming. My point with this veteran stuff is to say that in my day it was communism and in these kids day it's terrorism also the Arab countries excluding the United Arab Emirates respectfully are very poor. What I am getting at with this is that there is no way an operation such as this could be pulled off without some very high tech stuff ie;possible DEW tech and certain munitions of the latest generation That they do not possess. Did you see WTC7 go down look at the evidence man! the temperatures involved to bend and warp the structural steel. Also Actions or Bills such as the Patriot Act by our government is why the people were given the right to bear arms to combat it The Patriot Act is a slap in the face to me I spent a lot of time hunting other humans down and killing them it was my job, for what? to fight Communism HA! HA!!! Ha! what I did not see then I see now we are in grave danger as a Democracy or the idea of it. We are in more danger from our government that any group of ragtag terrorists Its a shame we live in such a beautiful place but have the government we do now. Just watch the videos and see the evidence there are many eye witness accounts of victims hearing explosions etc. I don't think you can fly a 757 off the deck at 400 knots either ie:regarding so called hit on the Pentagon.

APPARENTLY, when valid posts come up on a conspiracy site no one wants to respond to them. I will quote my earlier posts that were ignored, and hopefully some of yall can stop trying to stress your ill-supported points by double and triple posting.

Originally posted by InterestedObserver

Originally posted by spiritual being 13
reply to post by seasalt

 

dear seasalt, answer me this. How does a plane made of a thin skin of aluminum cut thru hardened steel like a hot knife thru butter?

Moving at nearly 935 km/h (top speed of a Boeing 757), with a near full tank of jet fuel, and a maximum take off weight of 272,500 lb (I don't know how much the plane weighed on 9/11)-- I don't think it'd be very hard at all actually.

Source:

www.boeing.com...

Originally posted by InterestedObserver
Rule out fuel altogether, you still have a 100+ ton plane going Mach .8 straight into a building. It's the same premise as a wood plank punching a hole through a steel shed in a tornado. It's not hard to understand.

Originally posted by InterestedObserver

Originally posted by spiritual being 13
reply to post by CaptainObvious

 

let's just say that we are in a time when the wool can easily be pulled over our eyes. Beware of television and the images on it and in print. also do not trust an answer from anyone other than yourself, go inside, the truth is there!

So,

1.) Don't trust anyones home video or pictures, even though most everyone here uses it as proof otherwise for the existence of extraterrestrials, chupacabras, or lawn gnomes. Those are much more plausible than 9/11 not being a cover-up anyways.

2.) Don't listen to the people who's family members died on the planes, because really those people never existed in the first place. Or perhaps they're just paid by the government to pretend like they did.

3.) If you were there and saw the planes, I shouldn't trust you because you're not me. You're probably paid by the government too!

4.) MOST OF ALL!!!! Don't trust the news media who filmed the second plane hit the WTC, because they all were paid off too. Or did the government create a CGI airplane to hit the tower from various angles and gave them to news media. OR, and totally most likely, they're probably just holograms of planes! There's no way terrorists would ever plan attacks against the United States and carry them out, that's totally the government's job.

Right?

[edit on 3/26/2008 by InterestedObserver]

First off, I'd like to say that I don't believe the official story. Second, I'd like to say that I don't believe some of the theories presented on ATS about 9/11. I guess I'm a rare breed. I think that the government was complicit in the attacks. I think the building were brought down by means other than fire. I think extremist did hijack the planes and fly them into the towers. I believe they were allow to do so. I think the towers were rigged with thermite/shape charges the weeks leading up to the attacks.

I'm not going to list the reasons why I believe this, as I'm sure everyone here has heard other people's reason numerous times.

However, I will respond to your law abiding, patriotic, shut-your-mouth-and-take-what-the-government-gives-you thread you've posted here.

Originally posted by seasalt
It is not the politicians fault, radical Muslim extremists hijacked 4 planes that day.

Is it not? After all, when I elect someone to office, I think he should do everything he can to protect the citizen's that elected him ... while at the same time protecting the freedoms guaranteed to us by our Constitution and our forefathers. It might be a delicate balance, but come on ... we pay these men WELL and it's not like they're working 8 hours a day, 360 days a year ... like MOST Americans.

Originally posted by seasaltIt is not their fault there remains a certain sect inside of the Muslim religion/Middle east that hates America, in large part because of Freedom and prosperity.

Do you think? Do you hate your neighbor because he owns a ski-boat? Because he make $50k more than you? Because he's Catholic rather than Baptist? Why don't you go blow yourself up in an attempt to kill his family? With reasoning like this ... you'd be doing us all a favor if you did. These people are no different than you and I. They're not a different species. They have the same reasoning abilities as you and I. We are not willing to kill ourselves over jealousy for another person's "Freedom and prosperity," so that tells me there must be something a little more to it than just "Freedom and prosperity". Like maybe if Russia had been occupying Texas for decades and raping the land for oil ... all the while exploiting the local families and communities that live there. I might be just a little bit pissed off as well. Just a little ... maybe.

Originally posted by seasaltWe do not know the full story, and never will, but don't you think the experts/government officials/politicians did everything in their power AFTER 9/11 to stop another terrorist attack from happening?
You bet they did.

With thinking like this ... it's amazing you ever graduated high school. Did you know Algebra before you went through high school? I highly doubt it. But, you attended school ... you sought the knowledge that you now possess. You DID learn Algebra! And we CAN know the truth about 9/11, with determination and persistence.

Did the government do everything in their power to stop another terrorist attack? Or did they create a breeding ground for terrorists? How many attacks did you hear about in Iraq before 2003? Yeah, I didn't think so. Invading Iraq didn't prevent ANY terrorist attacks .. it CREATED them.

reply to post by seasalt


Ok like many other people on here I have been reading Many topics on this site for some time now But When some one can not see the truth about 911 I just needed to sign up and have a say . If people don't start waking up it's going to be to late Your whole Country needs to down tools and say no more lies tell us the truth we wont be lied to any more Im sure that you get a few mil people demanding the truth they will have to stop the lies

Just a Aussies point of view

Originally posted by InterestedObserver
Rule out fuel altogether, you still have a 100+ ton plane going Mach .8 straight into a building. It's the same premise as a wood plank punching a hole through a steel shed in a tornado. It's not hard to understand.

I was going to say something similar: ever seen those aftermath of a tornado pics? You'll see a small twig that has impaled a guard rail, sometimes a piece of straw embedded in a wooden door.

Velocity and angle of impact make up for a lot.

reply to post by kelbtalfenek


Have you guys had a chance to check out these videos that are up on youtube and other sites...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...
Live Footage from that day, ABC news with Peter Jennings I believe....

www.youtube.com...
THIS ONE IS FOR THE OP!! Jet Fuel, which burned off very quickly, plus the subsequent fires could not destroy the towers in this fashion!!! Can the OP please be honest with all of us on why you actually started this thread in the first place??

Last but not least, here is another good one. It analyzes the "LIVE" footage from that day....
www.youtube.com...


Enjoy,
Purduegrad05

just thought id throw these videos of Building 7 into the mix.

Funny Clip of BBC reporter calling the collapse a little too early.



Also the clip of Larry Silverstein stating the classic phrase of "pull it" when talking about what happened to building 7.



The way i look at it there is always 2 sides to a coin you just gotta remember tho in the end its always the same coin.

it makes no sense for the entire base to be running mock drills. why would anyone think it a good idea to have everyone who is supposed to be protecting the pentagon doing mock drills. it was obviously a ruse.

Originally posted by Double Eights

Originally posted by Purduegrad05
Check out this video!!
Hopefully it wasn't posted already...

www.youtube.com...

I have great vision, better than 20/20 and I didn't see a plane in either of those two videos, then second being played on CNN!!! I mean, if you still believe the official story you need a reality check big time!
Enjoy.


Purduegrad05

At about 47 seconds in you can see a white thing fly across the screen above the traffic. It might just be a car, but I think it might have been the plane.

Hi Double Eights,

You may want to go back and watch the video again, I've seen this video before, Look closely, you will see that the person walking around in the lower left hand side of the video is walking very FAST, that would mean the video, is in fast forward. Therefore, if that's true, then you likely wouldn't have seen the alleged tail of the plane.

You see, that's what the believers of the official theory say about the video of the crash at the pentagon, from the security video, at the gate. They say the plane is moving too fast to see the plane, therefore, if the video from the hotel has been sped up, how could you see the tail at all?

This whole 9/11 scenario, is just common sense, common sense tells me that they (the gubmint) are hiding something.

Seasalt:

I've just had a thought:

I'll go along with your theory for a sec.

If Bin Laden's terrorists did orchestrate the 9/11 attacks and brought absolute terror and fear to every American in the world... by crashing a plane into the pentagon (with a show of almost above expert level of flying skill considering the no doubt chaotic conditions on that flight) and also bring down the two towers and attempting to hit the white house with the other.
And these same terrorists operated this terrifying attack from a small cave and not just evaded your airforce, your homeland security, your military and every American who was on the doomed plane....

Or do you believe the terrorists were invisible?

You've really gotta consider just how much protection you are getting from those in power when something like that can happen not just once, but four times in the same day... defying all security and all LOGIC!!!!

And you're STILL considering being a patriot to the shadowy fingers that let those terrorists under your nose....

This thread and subject will be discussed in a civil manner.

Consider this your final chance to make the decision to carry on a civil discussion.

For those who have followed the guidlines and are being civil
Thank you.

Civility and Decorum are Required

[edit on 27-3-2008 by elevatedone]

Seasalt,

I was curious to know if you've ever heard Hani Hanjour's story. Who was he, you might ask?

He was the hijacker that supposedly flew a 757 into the Pentagon.

It required making a tight 320-degree turn while descending seven thousand feet, then leveling out so as to fly low enough over the highway just west of the Pentagon to knock down lamp posts. After crossing the highway the pilot had to take the plane to within inches of the ground so as to crash into the Pentagon at the first-floor level and at such a shallow angle that an engine penetrated three rings of the building, while managing to avoid touching the lawn. And he had to do all of this while flying over 400 mph. Source

Countless images available all over the Internet, as well as the official accounts of that day, show that these were in fact the maneuvers he performed.

"What's the big deal?" you may ask? Despite their size, 757s are actually pretty agile.

However, they are also very difficult to control. Ask any pilot and they'll tell you that there is a world of difference between flying a Cessna and flying a 757.

There's just one problem.

Hani Hanjour couldn't fly a Cessna. Despite taking several months of flight school, he was reported to the FAA four times for being too lousy of a pilot to be able to fly. And yet, somehow he was awarded a pilot's license. Sometime after this, he attempted to rent a small Cessna and was denied because he demonstrated almost no ability to fly it.

So my question for you then is, how can somebody who can barely fly a Cessna in a straight line perform complicated 757 maneuvers at 400 miles per hour?

The terroists did it, but our government looks very complicit because they failed to protect us and have, and still are, covering for themselves...the real conspiracy is that heads have not rolled for this failure....

I don't get why people start threads like these. There is already an official thread for this, he could have posted in there. Let's stop feeding the trolls. SeaSalt also states that this forum has alot of users, and high traffic. Hmmm what are you interested in that so much? You have been shown the real proof if you don't like it then go somewhere else.

Who here has the specs of the cameras used to film all these youtube videos??? You need to have specs to determine what the cam could produce. For example frame rate and lense specs.. An aircraft traveling at 300 mph passing thru a cam with a very small field of view with a slow frame rate could cause many illusions... Again, i do not see any expert witnesses with info on cams in this thread.. Conclusion, conclusion.... You are jumping to them.. Know the facts and talk to experts before you make such enormous claims.. Do you realize that if you were making these claims toward an individual and or company you would run thr risk of being sued in civil court for slander.

Originally posted by patrickd
The terroists did it, but our government looks very complicit because they failed to protect us and have, and still are, covering for themselves...the real conspiracy is that heads have not rolled for this failure....

Now this makes sense to me! Our gov can be very incompetent. We have a large governing body and it is a big ship to steer with many captains and many big egos… They are in fact merely human.. The human ego gets in the way of science, education and government.. Hell the human ego gets in the way of almost everything. I know these things because I been a gov employee for a long time.. one day we will evolve to be better… Just know this though, many in our government do try to do the right thing and often do the wrong thing, they have good intentions in MOST cases.

Have we reached a consensus?!

I still don't know what to think about 9/11. There are some very suspicious things that need to be answered in my mind. As mentioned before, how could a plane have been allowed to hit the Pentagon which is supposedly quite well defended and with a big air base near by? The people in the air force will tell you that there are always fighters on alert status loaded with missiles at Andrews. There may have been drills taking place but that would never have put every plane and every fighter in the air. Even if they were on drill, the combat radius of an F-15 or F-16 is not that large to allow them to stray too far from base. It they were on drill a quicker response would have been the result. There are many comments here from some of my fellow pilots and others about 9/11:
Comments from 25 military officers

In opposition to those who claim that there is no way an airliner hit the Pentagon, one fellow I know actually witnessed the event. There are others quoted here as well:
Pentagon eye witnesses

In regards to the demolition of the towers, there are many engineers who dispute the official reports by FEMA. Many are furious that the wreckage was completely removed to prevent a thorough investigation as to why the towers collapsed. If nothing else, the wreckage could have been analysed to make future buildings safer so why was it all carted off?

I really don't know what to think about 9/11 but I do feel that there are a lot of unanswered questions that need investigating and I don't think the official report should be taken as is and whole thing put behind us until these questions are answered.

Greg

Originally posted by mr-lizard

(with a show of almost above expert level of flying skill considering the no doubt chaotic conditions on that flight)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the plane Crash? Crashing a plane is not considered “above expert level of flying skill”, I thought that would be obvious!

Having flown planes myself, I can tell you it’s easy to fly (easier than driving a car actually) and it would be a hell of a lot easier to crash it!

Remember, you don’t need to know how to drive a car or be a skilled driver to be able to crash it! Do you?

Mikey