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Originally posted by Smack
reply to post by irongunner
So, rather than checking into my claims, you'd rather attack my sources?
Do you have access to a search engine? Got Google?
I've learned that no amount of reasoning, logic or weight of facts, can ever convince some people. It's an emotional issue, that many people cannot reconcile within themselves -- that our government has been, and is now, run by criminals.
[edit on 1-4-2008 by Smack]
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. -- Mark Twain
Originally posted by stanglover2008
Mr Devino.. If 98% of "terrorist" are muslim than one can say that terrorist are "fundamelist muslim" This is logic.. Somthing that science is based on...
Originally posted by stanglover2008
I believe what I believe people, because nobody on this planet has produced info that supports your outlandish claims….. This is easy as one, two , three… You give me info and I ensure you I will give you evidence otherwise.. Why do you assume something without hard evidence? AGAIN, WOULD YOU CONVICT ME OF MURDUR WITHOUT SOLID EVIDENCE???? THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU!!! You assume and that is wrong. As far as the “rules” If ATS wishes to kick me off for me speaking my mind then so be it, it will only prove a double standard. : )
Originally posted by Mikey84
Originally posted by Lightworth
Sorry, but I've never heard of a plane crash before or since 9/11 where there wasn't enough wreckage to plainly identify it as such. OK, I've had enough. I think my insomnia is wearing off. Going back to bed. Toodles.
You obviously don’t know much about Plane Crashes in the past then, do your research please. But in saying that, identifiable parts of the aircrafts have been found at the WTC site and at the Pentagon, again I’m guessing you need to do more research.
Who really are the sheep? The people who believe the facts? or the people who “follow” the inside job theories?
Mikey
Originally posted by Mikey84
Originally posted by mr-lizard
(with a show of almost above expert level of flying skill considering the no doubt chaotic conditions on that flight)
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the plane Crash? Crashing a plane is not considered “above expert level of flying skill”, I thought that would be obvious!
Having flown planes myself, I can tell you it’s easy to fly (easier than driving a car actually) and it would be a hell of a lot easier to crash it!
Remember, you don’t need to know how to drive a car or be a skilled driver to be able to crash it! Do you?
Mikey
Originally posted by Sovereign797
Logic would also dictate that if you're staging a terrorist attack and you DID use explosives either on the ground or throughout the towers to aid in bringing it down, you'd just make a point of exposing that the terrorists made a joint air and ground attack. Even if 'they' did plan it, they had plenty of time to work out the physics of getting them to fall by hitting them in the right place.
Why would 'they' even remotely consider the possibility of leaving behind evidence to suggest it wasn't a terrorist attack. The simplest plan 'they' could come up with is to actually carry out a terrorist attack with their pawns and then claim it was Osama.
That's why I'm failing to believe in the inside job theories. They all seem to overly complicate how it was done to point to contrived evidence of a conspiracy.
Like I've said before, I can buy into why they would do it. It's not hard to see why an attack like this can benefit certain people. It's the explanations from truthers that make it sound less and less plausible to me.
Originally posted by Amaterasu
Let's see... You can see the motivation, but you can't buy that they would actually do it if they thought they could get away with it?
What's there to explain? Why won't they release footage from public cameras from that day if there is nothing unexpected to be found? There's one I would like explained.
Why did the debris get such a poor excuse for a forensics examination? There's another.
Why are the questions of the Jersey Girls not answered?
Why did Cheney say orders still stood when he was told a plane was approaching the Pentagon (and we must presume those orders were to do nothing)?
Why did the Towers fall like controlled demolition?
Why did #7 fall? Like controlled demolition?
Why did the investigation take 14 months! to start? With Bush/Cheney fighting it every step of the way?
Why were so many questions not addressed in the "investigation?"
And on and on.
Interesting thing is... We don't have to ask any of these questions if we start from the "inside job" supposition. Every
Originally posted by irongunner
so, now we can all agree that the people with the most questions are right?
well then let us types that believe in the official story start asking ridiculous questions as well.
why do "truthers" think that most deaths of public figures are conspiracies?
if they are conspiracies why haven't all of the "truthers" started disappearing?
Why do you think there is a gov./ mass media conspiracy?
why havent you "truthers" started moving to countries that are less worse than America if our gov. is flying around in black helicopters doing all sorts of dastardly deeds?
if i wanted i could go on, but the "proof by question" stuff needs to end.
Originally posted by Amaterasu
Let's see... You can see the motivation, but you can't buy that they would actually do it if they thought they could get away with it?
...Why won't they release footage from public cameras from that day if there is nothing unexpected to be found? ...
Why did the debris get such a poor excuse for a forensics examination?
Why are the questions of the Jersey Girls not answered?
Why did Cheney say orders still stood when he was told a plane was approaching the Pentagon (and we must presume those orders were to do nothing)?
Why did the Towers fall like controlled demolition?
Why did the investigation take 14 months! to start? With Bush/Cheney fighting it every step of the way?
Originally posted by Sovereign797
Originally posted by Amaterasu
Let's see... You can see the motivation, but you can't buy that they would actually do it if they thought they could get away with it?
It's not even that I don't believe they'd do it. If they did, there wouldn't be this much supposed evidence that they did. Or maybe I'm just smarter than our government to think that the easiest way to not get caught is to carry the attack out just like a terrorist would? Using controlled demolitions and missiles is sloppy and would lead to getting caught.
So I'm left with three possible explanations.
The people who planned this according to the truther explanations are apparently completely inept and truthers have nailed them!
The people who planned this ARE indeed in our government and did exactly as I said, carried out a terrorist attack using terrorist methods and truthers are just coming up with bogus evidence in an attempt to uncover it, all the while losing credibility because their assumptions are off the map.
Or terrorists carried out the attacks that day and 50% of their plan actually worked. The buildings coming down nearly right on their bases was just an eerie coincidence due to the construction of the buildings and where they were hit.
The pentagon was hit by an airplane, but they failed to cause any real damage because they hit it totally wrong and were going too fast to aim where they should have. The 4th plane also failed. And unpreparedness and a series of communications failures led to this even being possible.
I could go either way on two of those, can you guess which?
Originally posted by Sovereign797
Originally posted by Amaterasu
...Why won't they release footage from public cameras from that day if there is nothing unexpected to be found? ...
I can't answer this for you. We have the frames related to the aircraft hitting the pentagon, what more do you need? If you think it wasn't an airplane, you must subscribe to the theory that those who planned this are stupid enough to use a missile or plant explosives. That's great, but can you answer why they would do that instead of doing what a terrorist would do and crash a plane into it?
Why did the debris get such a poor excuse for a forensics examination?
Sometimes it's never enough. How much examination would have been good enough? A super thorough examination is really only necessary when there's a question on what happened. So either the government sent all that stuff away to hide what they did, or we already knew what happened. I'm not going to argue this point, because you either believe it was an inside job or you don't. This is not evidence.
Why are the questions of the Jersey Girls not answered?
Good question.
Why did Cheney say orders still stood when he was told a plane was approaching the Pentagon (and we must presume those orders were to do nothing)?
Do we know what the orders were? Even if we presume the orders are to do nothing, would you want to make the call to kill innocent civilians?
How much of that plane do you think an air to air missile would destroy? Sometimes they don't even destroy entire fighter jets, you'd have debris falling all over.
Why did the Towers fall like controlled demolition?
Lots of people like to claim that they know it was a controlled demolition, some because they are professionals, some because they've seen it on tv, or in person. That's great that you have something to compare it to, I've seen controlled demos too, and it looked similar as it fell to me too once someone mentioned it. By show of hands, who here has seen a building collapse from airplanes hitting it? Well, now we have, so now we have a frame of reference.
Why did the investigation take 14 months! to start? With Bush/Cheney fighting it every step of the way?
Because we knew what happened. The only question was how did the terrorists slip through the cracks.
Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Amaterasu
Golly Gosh, gee whilickers, Amater...
Your final statement, no victims at the Pentagon? Really, this is simply untrue, and tends to invalidate and impugn anything else you may care to write.
[outside source] "Many survivors suffered horrible injuries. Kevin Shaeffer was watching coverage of the attacks in New York City with co-workers in the Navy Command Center when the plane struck, instantly killing 29 in the same office. Shaeffer sustained second- and third-degree burns over 4- percent of his body." 'Recovering, PBS.org, 9/11/2003'
125 total dead victims inside the Pentagon...plus the 54 from the airplane (not including the five hijackers, since no families came forward to provide DNA samples for matches).
Ya know, a lot of darned rumors fly around on the internet...some that a little determined research would easily dispel......
Originally posted by seasalt
The other plane, did not make it's destination, due to heroic actions(or REactions)by certain flight passengers that morning.
Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Amaterasu
Golly Gosh, gee whilickers, Amater...
Your final statement, no victims at the Pentagon? Really, this is simply untrue, and tends to invalidate and impugn anything else you may care to write.
[outside source] "Many survivors suffered horrible injuries. Kevin Shaeffer was watching coverage of the attacks in New York City with co-workers in the Navy Command Center when the plane struck, instantly killing 29 in the same office. Shaeffer sustained second- and third-degree burns over 4- percent of his body." 'Recovering, PBS.org, 9/11/2003'
125 total dead victims inside the Pentagon...plus the 54 from the airplane (not including the five hijackers, since no families came forward to provide DNA samples for matches).
Ya know, a lot of darned rumors fly around on the internet...some that a little determined research would easily dispel......