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Let's explore a different theory about 9/11 (My theory)

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posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 01:39 AM
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I can imagine the conspiracy just fine. It's not a lack of imagination. I can see all of your reasons for WHY our government might want to carry something like this out. It's really not all that hard to imagine. That's why it's so easy for some people to believe, because the reasons why make sense.

I'm failing at believing that they DID do it. Not even because I don't think that 'they' are capable. Although I have a bit of trouble with G.W. having anything to do with it if it were a conspiracy. (If you guys haven't noticed, he's not good with words or sentences, he would have told us already on accident)

I don't believe for a second that the people at the top of our government, even the evil Cheney, said hey, you know what would be a good idea... and then carried it out. First you have to believe that they had the thoughts which lead to the WHY. Then you have to believe that they thought that the WHY was necessary enough to create an elaborate plan. Then you'd have to believe they thought the benefits of this elaborate plan to murder US civilians was worth the cost. Then you have to believe that they were careless enough to actually leave these little breadcrumbs which lead 'truthers' to believe they were behind it.

That's a long series of maybe's that I can't buy into. If you string it all together, it even sounds good. Especially if you're anti-government. The more simple solution is that 19 terrorists attacked the US in the only way they know how and got lucky. That our military was unprepared to deal with an unorthodox attack (we still only train for conventional war at my base), and that our government mishandled intelligence.

That's a lot easier to believe. It's not like they've never fouled up intelligence before...

Even if I suspend disbelief long enough to entertain the 9/11 conspiracy theories, none of the videos, the articles, the 'evidence' ever compels me. So what I ask is that someone show me even 1 piece of compelling evidence. Seriously, I've seen enough of the websites and videos containing the whole picture.. I get it, I get the why, and I get the how, what I'm missing here is what makes you so sure. 100% of evidence put forth that I have viewed has a plausible counter.

If you've got something I haven't seen that's compelling, or you've got something you think is worth while and you've got a reason the official excuse doesn't cover it, let me hear it, and I promise to give it a fair shot.

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this forum, guess that didn't work.




posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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Your a damn idiot. Go back to watching your TV. There is overwhelming evidences that supports government involvement in 9/11. I have read the 9/11 commission report, and its all been cover up from start to finish. Do you think that a bunch of cave monkeys come into this country blowup two buildings all in the name of Allah. I have built airplanes, I have work for aircraft manufactures in this country I know those were not airliners that slam into the world trade centers, and I'm still looking for the airliner that slam into the pentagon? The engines alone are big enough to stand in. I think you have BS brain tumors. If you believe the government story so much why are you here. Is it because you have some doubt? Or is it because you are a BS eater? Turn the TV off, take the earplug out of your ears, and try to sense what is going on in this world of ours. Your afraid like the rest of us. I have fought one of this country wars all base on government lies, and deceit. God help you!



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by Sovereign797
I don't believe for a second that the people at the top of our government, even the evil Cheney, said hey, you know what would be a good idea... and then carried it out. First you have to believe that they had the thoughts which lead to the WHY. Then you have to believe that they thought that the WHY was necessary enough to create an elaborate plan. Then you'd have to believe they thought the benefits of this elaborate plan to murder US civilians was worth the cost. Then you have to believe that they were careless enough to actually leave these little breadcrumbs which lead 'truthers' to believe they were behind it.


Heh. Lessee. They were thinking they needed a "new Pearl Harbor..." Reichstag, more like it. They needed it to justify war so that war contracts could be created. The Towers had been ordered to be decommissioned by 2007 by building a scaffold to take them apart... Insurance could be gotten against terrorist attacks... They had plenty of time... The whole gang made buttloads of money. They justified raping our freedoms and turning the presidency into a fuhrercy... They are letting the Fed Reserve take full control of our economy...

I'm thinking I see WAY more than enough motivation to plan 9/11.


That's a long series of maybe's that I can't buy into. If you string it all together, it even sounds good. Especially if you're anti-government.


I never thought of myself as "anti-government," but anti-Bush/Cheney, et al, after examining a whole lot of data.


Even if I suspend disbelief long enough to entertain the 9/11 conspiracy theories, none of the videos, the articles, the 'evidence' ever compels me. So what I ask is that someone show me even 1 piece of compelling evidence. Seriously, I've seen enough of the websites and videos containing the whole picture.. I get it, I get the why, and I get the how, what I'm missing here is what makes you so sure. 100% of evidence put forth that I have viewed has a plausible counter.

If you've got something I haven't seen that's compelling, or you've got something you think is worth while and you've got a reason the official excuse doesn't cover it, let me hear it, and I promise to give it a fair shot.

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this forum, guess that didn't work.


All the evidence has been talked to death, so let's not go there. Instead...

If you start with the official story, many weird things - like the debris never undergoing a proper forensics study before hauling the evidence off to China - need to be explained. If you presume it was an inside job, it makes sense why a smattering of debris was offered up for examination while the rest was out of there in weeks.

In fact, virtually every question that has come up and has been answered with stretches, coincidences, and even falsehoods, does not have to be asked if you presume an inside job. The only question that has to be asked is, "Who was involved?"

Oh, sure, you might ask how they pulled it off, but I bet if you knew who was involved, you wouldn't need to ask about that too much, either.

What would Occam choose?

[edit on 3/30/2008 by Amaterasu]



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by TheBerg
Your a damn idiot. Go back to watching your TV. There is overwhelming evidences that supports government involvement in 9/11. ...


Berg... I know you're angry, and I know you're right. But I might suggest toning the anger down and the valid points up. Attacking someone because they don't believe will not win converts.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 12:57 AM
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I just ignore that MF Stanglover, who is here only to poisoning our talks. Pages in this threat drops with 3 pages full of his idiotic crap.

I met that guy before in one of my own threat, witch he poison in couple of minutes. I try to be pollite, but answers was nonsense. I put him as foe then.

I havent been here so long that I can see those idiots "always come and go" ... But for me he is kind of "only a waste of your time."

Foe, and ignore, I suggest you all do the same, he have had his chance!

[edit on 30-3-2008 by JanusFIN]



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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The reason most people don't go along with your theory is that it is ignorant of the facts to date.

The real mystery has to be; where are the planes that went missing that day and the people on them?

Since it has been proven that a military jet was culpable for the Twin Towers collapse and that a missile was culpable for the pentagon attack, WHERE ARE THE REAL PLANES AND PASSENGERS?

That is about the only mystery left.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by spaceweaver
 


I did see some document, where they show that passenger seats was full of government officials, and its contractors employees. Also planes had plenty of empty seats, witch was not usual that time in those routes.

I only assume, but in that light you can see, that when the original flight was changed to drone plane, those planes were grounded somewhere else, and passenger were moved to another flights, and silenced with oaths.

Of course another theory will be more violent and bloody, but so was the whole day too... That is really good question, and I have think it many times. One of the good reasons to investigate that day again, soon as possible. Maybe they are still in custody somewhere in CIA camps in foreign soil.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 02:06 AM
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Stanglover...I've read your posts, and what what really upsets me is how you can not believe anyone can be so bold as to blame our government for 3000 murders on 911. Maybe you haven't noticed, but far more have been murdered in the Middle East. How many soldiers and innocent civilians have been murdered?? If you have a tally, or if anyone does I would love to hear it.

911 was a sinister plot to help rally a nation to support the Bush regime's plan to set-up a strong presence in the Middle East. The government gains of their actions are self explanatory.

And if history does repeat itself, research The Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, and the Gulf of Tonkin. After doing so you might just begin to understand why some people are skeptics when it comes to the official 911 story.

And really stanglover...Do you really think they wouldn't sacrifice 3000 lives for monetary and imperialistic gains?



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by seasalt
 


This is the possible result of chlorination and floridation of public drinking water, the dumbing of Americans through the education system and an extensive progaganda network. Makes it hard to see the forest for the trees.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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You know, I was in New York City in 1977. I went to the Twin Towers. They were new and very impressive. When my dad called me at work and told me a plane had hit one I told him that was sad. He called back and said a plane had hit the second one. I knew it was no accident. He called back and said the first tower had collapsed and I thought he had had another stroke. I told him he was misunderstanding the news or listening to exaggerated reports. It was NOT possible. For a brief moment I entertained the official story. But then I heard about the put options. They were naked puts. Some of you trade no doubt. You don't go naked on a whim. You need good fundamental information, good technical setup, timing and inside information helps a helluva lot. This was an inside job. The put options closed my mind to any "official" explanation. FOLLOW THE MONEY. Check out the insurance claim on the buildings too. "Terrorist" insurance was purchased just sufficiently ahead of the attacks to assure a victory in court. The insurance company was forced to pay on a policy specifically purchased for terrorist attacks just months prior to the attack. The official story is a hoax.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by pursuitoffreedom
And if history does repeat itself, research The Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, and the Gulf of Tonkin. After doing so you might just begin to understand why some people are skeptics when it comes to the official 911 story.


You forgot the Reichstag... It was a classic example of what 9/11 was.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Sorry about my reply. Your right I was angry.


Some people must learn not to be so rough on them self, Life will do it for them.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 09:53 PM
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perhaps one might ask why the president didn't react emediately,when at the elementary school,he was a guest at,was notified ,about the first plane attack?,enough time to give orders to respond with protocall,or the qucik response to escourtin from this country ,some of bin laddins family members,who were in new york and other areas etc,? aol also at that time ,on the net,posted one question ,what freedoms would you give up,? it did not ask would you be willing to give up,but that you would be ,making a decission ,out of two choices ,already chosen for you!
did you not also not know that the busch n bin laddin families have been in bed with each other for many years before his becoming the pres,and that they hold many shares in companies around the world,together , i served this country with pride ,but some body has and still is selling this country out from under the noses of the american sheeple, i took an oath when i joined the corp years ago,to defend this country and my people form foreign and domestic enemies,sorry to say ,i believe the enemy is at hand ,and has always been here ,shortly after our fore fathers,who set in motion our freedoms and our god given rights ,to manage and decide our own fate past ,present,and future , for our families ,and the properties by which we are in possession of ,not the goverment,not the church,and certainly not ,the abiguouis goals of the simple few,who say it is ,if you fall amoung this group ,then get out of my country,quit trying to change us ,or trying to take control of us and our belongings, we should not tolorate the creeping caner of deceitful,politicians,any government ,ocult, or entity,that says they are law ,only to hold us accountable at there leisure,and hold a double standard for themselvels , and there pawns , who carry out there orders, i do not give up my freedoms ,guns ,porperty, or my rights,got that! and you shouldn't either !



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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Now that's funny. You pretend to be all polite at the beginning the procede to call anyone who disagrees with you "closed minded" and "arrogant". And all of this based on your on unverified claim to "expert" status because you claim to be an "active duty Air Force mechanic". Whatever mister.

As for your theory, how was Andrews airforce base supposed to (in YOUR words) serve the "president and congress" without any fighters? But hey, forget Andrews for a second. What about the Pentagon? It's close to the ocean. Easy target for a submarine launched missile. And we're supposed to believe that there are NO anti aircraft capability there prior to 2001? Baloney.

Hey Mr. Air force mechanic. Tell me what Dick Cheney meant when he was asked "The plane is 50...40...30 miles out. Do the orders still stand" and he replied "Have you heard any different? Of course the orders still stand." Open your own mind and stop being arrogant yourself.


Originally posted by stanglover2008
Greeting, I am new and this would be my first post.

With all do respect to everyone on the board...
I have to say that before I begin.

911 happened the way it happened, no conspiracy theory at all. A little about me. I am active duty Air Force and a aircraft mechanic, I specialize in Jet engine systems. I know about aircraft and engineering,

....babble snipped....

I know that I will change hardly any minds on this site and I believe that to be sad. A closed mind is an arrogant mind.
[/quo



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by nakedtruth
 


nakedtruth,

Hello, see you've been on ATS a while, but haven't posted much...

You said the Pentagon was 'near the ocean'. That's an interesting assertion. Since I live in the DC area, and drive by the Pentagon on a regular basis, I happen to know that your statement is incorrect.

IN FACT, Washington DC was chosen as the Capital because of its defensibility....in the 18th Century, because it was only accessible by the Potomac River....a very long journey.

The Pentagon is on the Virginia side of the Potomac....try looking at a Google Map, you'll see quite clearly what I mean. I-95 and Rte 110 are highways that snake around the building....well, actually, around the huge parking lots that surround the Pentagon...

To suggest that an enemy 'sub' could sneak into the DC Harbor is ludicrous.

The Potomac is only navigable upriver as far as 'Great Falls', where the Chain Bridge is located...this is only slightly upstream from the 'Key' Bridge, the route from Georgetown into Rosslyn.

From Rosslyn, you drive a mile or so, past the Marine Memorial, and the Carrilion, hang a left....and you can veer to the Memorial Bridge, or into the Arlington Cemetary....and you're still not near the Pentagon! General Lee's old house, in the Arlington Cemetary, is closer to the Potomac!!!

Please don't spout disinfo about the location of the Pentagon. Or, if you can back up your claims, post the evidence.

Thanks.

[edit]

[edit on 30-3-2008 by weedwhacker]



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by stanglover2008
Building No. 7 probably collapsed due to the massive forces imposed on the structure by both towers collapsing… The heat and pressure of the towers collapse probably did the dead. Something similar to a Pyroclastic flow. This is something that should be addressed by a structural engineer before assumption.


And what is your evidence of this? Seriously. You run around shouting "evidence evidence" while ignoring or denying any evidence that disagrees with you and then you throw up a BS theory against the wall hoping that it will stick without any evidence. For the record WTC 6 was closer to WTC 1 & 2 than WTC 7. WTC 6 suffered MUCH more damage from falling debris than did WTC 7. WTC 6 did not fall and had to be brought down by controlled demolition. Heat and pressure from collapsing towers? What on earth do you get this nonsense?



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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Hello Weedwhacker. Yes I signed up a long time ago and no I don't post much. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

As far as the Pentagon not being near the ocean, I suppose it depends upon your definition of the word "near". From the stand point of a submarine launched cruise missile all of D.C. is near the ocean (as opposed to midwest which is REALLY far from the ocean and that's why our land based ICBMs are there.) D.C. might have been the "most defendable" place circa the 1790s, but that was over 200 years ago. A lot has changed regarding both U.S. geography and modern technology. To claim that a cruise missile couldn't reach D.C. from the Atlantic ocean is ridiculous. The range of a Tomahawk is over 1500 miles. Well within reach of the Pentagon from the Atlantic. And while the Tomahawk is one of ours, prudence requires that you assume if you can do something you enemies may eventually have that same capability.

Oh, and I don't need to live in D.C. to know that a cruise missile could reach the Pentagon from the Atlantic. I simply have to pull up a map via Google. So "research that" Mr. Disinfo.


66.34.1.62...



Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by nakedtruth
 


nakedtruth,

Hello, see you've been on ATS a while, but haven't posted much...

You said the Pentagon was 'near the ocean'. That's an interesting assertion. Since I live in the DC area, and drive by the Pentagon on a regular basis, I happen to know that your statement is incorrect.

IN FACT, Washington DC was chosen as the Capital because of its defensibility....in the 18th Century, because it was only accessible by the Potomac River....a very long journey.

The Pentagon is on the Virginia side of the Potomac....try looking at a Google Map, you'll see quite clearly what I mean. I-95 and Rte 110 are highways that snake around the building....well, actually, around the huge parking lots that surround the Pentagon...

To suggest that an enemy 'sub' could sneak into the DC Harbor is ludicrous.

The Potomac is only navigable upriver as far as 'Great Falls', where the Chain Bridge is located...this is only slightly upstream from the 'Key' Bridge, the route from Georgetown into Rosslyn.

From Rosslyn, you drive a mile or so, past the Marine Memorial, and the Carrilion, hang a left....and you can veer to the Memorial Bridge, or into the Arlington Cemetary....and you're still not near the Pentagon! General Lee's old house, in the Arlington Cemetary, is closer to the Potomac!!!

Please don't spout disinfo, do some research.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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That's nice. Of course we have no idea what it is your AF base is supposed to be protecting. Arnold AFB in Tennessee is close to...well....nothing. It's got nothing to defend but itself. Remember that according to the PDB we were expecting terrorist attacks. According to the war games that were happening before and ON 9/11 we were expecting hijacked aircraft to be used as flying bombs with a possible list of targets including the WTC and the Pentagon. So the Pentagon wargames what to do if they get struck by a hijacked aircraft but nobody thinks about actually preventing the attack? Oh sure, I've heard the story of the cliff, the guardrail and the ambulance and maybe that's what happened. Then again maybe not. But to randomly throw up an example of some AFB somewhere that's not on alert frankly isn't very convincing.

Also regardless of the jets at Andrews there's also the question of missile batteries. A stinger missile should be able to take down a jetliner. A dual stinger missile battery can be deployed in 3 minutes. Remember this was also several years after someone had TRIED to crash a plane into the Whitehouse to kill president Clinton. There was plenty of time from when the second plane hit the towers to deploy stinger missiles around obvious targets (ones you WAR GAMED being attacked) before the Pentagon got struck. Did anybody think of that? Was an attempt even made? Unfortunately we can't know based on the sloppiness of the investigation. Dick Cheney was never asked about the following:

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"


What did "the orders still stand"? Unfortunately we don't know. A good investigation would probe to find out. The problem with this whole argument is that the "defenders" of the official story don't understand what (most) 9/11 skeptics really want. It's not a conviction but rather a real and impartial investigation. For me it's not enough to say "well that anomaly doesn't 'prove' Cheney did it." Push the damn investigation to the limit and force the truth to come out one way or the other!


Originally posted by Sovereign797
I'm a little ashamed to drive a mustang and also believe the 'official' (aka the real story) of 9/11 when you have posters like stanglover2008 being all crazy and what not.

I just wanted to offer my support to the OP as one who still buys the real story and also hasn't seen any evidence to support a conspiracy.

No I don't buy the missile hit the pentagon story. I've seen enough experts say it was an aircraft, seen the wreckage, and no evidence to the contrary.

Andrews didn't launch alert fighters.. ok, you're assuming Andrews knew what was going on? You're also assuming the world's best Air Force actually has fighters sitting ready to launch. Post-9/11 and my base doesn't have any alert fighters. Not even a fighter jet on station most of the time.
...
It's up to the individual to decide if they believe. Kind of like religion.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by nakedtruth
 


nakedtruth, just read your response...

I'm shocked that you would imagine that ANY enemy submarine would be able to get anywhere close enough to the East Coast of the US, let alone off the Eastern Seaboard of Washington, DC, and be able to launch a 'cruise missile' without the US Navy detecting?!?!?

Maybe in a Tom Clancy novel...hope his house is OK, heard he had a fire the other day.....



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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Did anyone else see the TV program about the guy who visited 9/11 before the attack and was mistaken for someone else, then ushered into a secret meeting about how to drop the Twin Towers building? It went over many aspects on how to get it to fall into its own footprint and explosives needed and also discussed the insurance money.

The whole program was riveting and very damning.



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