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Is the Cross Just Another Lie? (Revised)

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posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


I think it's just over.

Jesus taught, let your yes mean yes, and your no, no.

That's gone, so it's all over.


sarc




posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 02:24 AM
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it should also be noted that jesus spoke of a "disgusting thing" during the future fall of jerusalem.

most equate the roman army as the disgusting thing standing at the temple, but more than likely the romans carried standards for their legion.


THE STANDARDS
The battle standards of the legions were venerated in a religious way. The legionary standard with the most symbolic importance was the aquila, "eagle." In the Empire a cult of the emperor developed. This manifested itself in the imagio, a standard topped with a golden representation of the ruling emperor's face. An incident in Judea highlights this standards religious value. The procurater of Judea, Pontius Pilot, began his term in office by bringing in some standards to be housed in Jerusalem. Among them were imagio of Emperor Tiberius. The outraged Jewish populace protested, demanding the removal of these graven images. They insisted on their demand despite the Romans' threat of violence (Josephus, The Jewish War II, 165).
The success and prosperity of a unit was seen as linked to the standards. Every Roman camp or fort had a shrine to house the staqndards. To lose a standard was a tremendous dishonor. The army would do everything within its power to regain it. Recovered standards were not returned to the legion. They were instead placed in a temple constructed by Augustus devoted to Mars Ultor, "Mars the Avenger."


they were called aquilas

idols are something to be taken very seriously, you cant take an idol and "sanctify" and say its holy now. God abhors idols. any worship that includes idols, i think its safe to say that god disapproves of.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Miriam,

It's true, Idolatry is the greatest sin in the sight of God and we must avoid it at all cost.

Just want to share with you some great teachings of Jesus touching this subject.

One skilled in the Law invited Jesus to supper, in order to tempt him. Jesus came thither with his disciples, and many scribes, to tempt him, waited for him in the house. Whereupon, the disciples sat down to table without washing their hands. The scribes called Jesus, saying: "Wherefore do not your disciples observe the traditions of our elders, in not washing their hands before they eat bread?" Jesus answered: "And I ask you, for what cause have you annulled the precept of God to observe your traditions? You say to the sons of poor fathers: "Offer and make vows to the Temple."
And they make vows of that little wherewith they ought to support their fathers. And when their fathers wish to take money, the sons cry out: "This money is consecrated to God"; whereby the fathers suffer. O false scribes, hypocrites, does God use this money? Assuredly not, for God eats not, as he says by his servant David the prophet: Shall I then eat the flesh of bulls and drink the blood of sheep? Render to me the sacrifice of praise, and offer to me your vows; for if I should be hungry I will not ask aught of you, seeing that all things are in my hands, and the abundance of paradise is with me. Hypocrites! you do this to fill your purse, and therefore you tithe rue and mint.

Oh miserable ones! for to others you show the most clear way, by which you will not go. 'You scribes and doctors lay upon the shoulders of others weights of unbearable weight, but you yourselves the while are not willing to move them with one of your fingers. Truly I say to you, that every evil has entered into the world under the pretext of the elders. Tell me, who made idolatry to enter into the world, if not the usage of the elders? For there was a king who exceedingly loved his father, whose name was Baal.
Whereupon, when the father was dead, his son for his own consolation, caused to be made an image like to his father, and set it up in the market-place of the city. And he made a decree that every one who approached that statue within a space of fifteen cubits should be safe, and no one any account should do him hurt. Hence the malefactors, by reason of the benefit they received therefrom, began to offer to the statue roses and flowers, and in a short time the offerings were changed into money and food, insomuch that they called it god, to honour it. Which thing from custom was transformed into a law, insomuch that the idol of Baal spread through all the world;
and how much does God lament this by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "Truly this people worships me in vain, for they have annulled my Law given to them by my servant Moses, and follow the traditions of their elders.
Truly I say to you, that to eat bread with unclean hands defiles not a man, because that which enters into the man defiles not the man, but that which comes out of the man defiles the man." Thereupon, said one of the scribes: "If I shall eat pork, or other unclean meats, will they not defile my conscience?" Jesus answered: "Disobedience will not enter into the man, but will come out of the man, from his heart; and therefore will he be defiled when he shall eat forbidden food."

Then said one of the doctors: "Master, you have spoken much against idolatry as though the people of Israel had idols, and so you have done us wrong." Jesus answered: "I know well that in Israel today there are not statues of wood; but there are statues of flesh." Then answered all the scribes in wrath: "And so we are idolaters?" Jesus answered: "Truly I say to you, the precept says not "You shall worship", but "You shall love the Lord your God with all your soul, and with all your heart, and with all your mind." Is this true?" said Jesus. "It is true" answered every one.

Then Jesus said: "Truly all that which a man loves, for which he leaves everything else but that, is his god. And so the fornicator has for his image the harlot, the glutton and drunkard has for image his own flesh, and the covetous has for his image silver and gold, and so likewise every other sinner." Then said he who had invited him: "Master, which is the greatest sin?"

Jesus answered: "Which is the greatest ruin of a house?" Every one was silent, when Jesus with his finger pointed to the foundation, and said: "If the foundation give way, immediately the house falls in ruin, in such wise that it is necessary to build it up anew: but if every other part give way it can be repaired. Even so then say I to you, that idolatry is the greatest sin, because it deprives a man entirely of faith, and consequently of God; so that he can have no spiritual affection. But every other sin leaves to man the hope of obtaining mercy: and therefore I say that idolatry is the greatest sin." All stood amazed at the speaking of Jesus, for they perceived that it could not in any wise be assailed.

Then Jesus continued: "Remember that which God spoke and which Moses and Joshua wrote in the Law, and you shall see how grave is this sin. God said, speaking to Israel: "You shall not make to yourself any image of those things which are in heaven nor of those things which are under the heaven, nor shall you make it of those things which are above the earth, nor of those which are under the earth; nor of those which are above the water, nor of those which are under the water. For I am your God, strong and jealous, who will take vengeance for this sin upon the fathers and upon their children even to the fourth generation."

Remember how, when our people had made the calf, and when they had worshiped it, by commandment of God Joshua and the tribe of Levi took the sword and slew of them one hundred and twenty thousand of those that did not crave mercy of God. Oh, terrible judgment of God upon the idolaters!"

Peace!



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


Timelord,

The Holy Qur'an is the Final Testament of God sent to mankind, it is NOT a re-write of the Bible at all, instead it is the Mother of the Book, of all the Holy Scriptures of God and the watcher over it. God has preserved it from contamination and corruption by instructing the followers of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to memorize each verse and chapter as soon as it was revealed. The Prophet himself was referred to in the Old Testament as the unlettered prophet, he recited the words that the Angel Gabriel revealed to him for a period of 23 years to all the inhabitants of Mecca. His followers memorized the Holy Qur'an by heart and they used to recite it to other people who are mindful to listen to God's words, Christians and Jews, residing in Mecca at that time. Even 1400 years after the Holy Qur'an was first revealed, millions of Muslims have perfect memory of the Holy Qur'an as pure as the first time it was revealed and handed down by a whole generation of Muslims from the time of the Prophet, to the future generation of Muslims. If all the Bible and all the Holy Qur'an in the world is destroyed by a terrible calamity, The Holy Qur'an can be reproduced in one day, each and every verse can be gathered from the hearts and memory of believers, I doubt if the Bible can be reproduced perfectly as the Holy Qur'an if such events transpire.

I challenge you, timelord, if you have the time and if you truly love God, to read the Holy Qur'an with an open mind, and open heart, there's too much blessings contained there, a healing for all kinds of illness, physical, emotional and most of all spiritual.

The Holy Qur'an is the greatest gift God has given to mankind after Jesus (pbuh), I feel that I became a better follower of Jesus after I read the Holy Qur'an, it changed my life completely, and I'm sure that whoever reads it with pure intention will not be deprived of the mercy of God.

002.062 Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

005.082 Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.

017.107 Say: Believe therein or believe not, lo! those who were given knowledge before it, when it is read unto them, fall down prostrate on their faces, adoring.

002.213 Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path.

004.153 The people of the Scripture ask of thee that thou shouldst cause an (actual) Book to descend upon them from heaven. They asked a greater thing of Moses aforetime, for they said: Show us Allah plainly. The storm of lightning seized them for their wickedness. Then (even) after that) they chose the calf (for worship) after clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) had come unto them. And We forgave them that! And We bestowed on Moses evident authority.

The Holy Qur'an will be a witness against all of us on the Day of Judgment. The Revelation of the Holy Quran is the signal of the Last Day, and we are so near now to the Final Hour. All of God's Holy Scriptures are pointing to our generation as the Last, and the Holy Qur'an the book wherein we will all be judged.

006.157 Or lest ye should say: If the Scripture had been revealed unto us, we surely had been better guided than are they. Now hath there come unto you a clear proof from your Lord, a guidance and mercy; and who doeth greater wrong than he who denieth the revelations of Allah, and turneth away from them ? We award unto those who turn away from Our revelations an evil doom because of their aversion.

011.063 He said: O my people! Bethink you: if I am (acting) on clear proof from my Lord and there hath come unto me a mercy from Him, who will save me from Allah if I disobey Him ? Ye would add to me naught save perdition.

017.101 And verily We gave unto Moses nine tokens, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty). Do but ask the Children of Israel how he came unto them, then Pharaoh said unto him: Lo! I deem thee one bewitched, O Moses.

040.028 And a believing man of Pharaoh's family, who hid his faith, said: Would ye kill a man because he saith: My Lord is Allah, and hath brought you clear proofs from your Lord ? If he is lying, then his lie is upon him; and if he is truthful, then some of that wherewith he threateneth you will strike you. Lo! Allah guideth not one who is a prodigal, a liar.

043.063 When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), he said: I have come unto you with wisdom, and to make plain some of that concerning which ye differ. So keep your duty to Allah, and obey me.

There's so much more contained in the Holy Qur'an which is a treasure fount of knowledge and wisdom from God.

003.066 Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge ? Allah knoweth. Ye know not.

004.162 But those of them who are firm in knowledge and the believers believe in that which is revealed unto thee, and that which was revealed before thee, especially the diligent in prayer and those who pay the poor-due, the believers in Allah and the Last Day. Upon these We shall bestow immense reward.

002.269 He giveth wisdom unto whom He will, and he unto whom wisdom is given, he truly hath received abundant good. But none remember except men of understanding.

www.sacred-texts.com...

You have nothing to lose by clicking the link, you can peruse the chapters and see for yourself.

Peace!



[edit on 18-7-2008 by queenofangels_17]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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Tho I dont know much of the historic of Jesus death. I remember watching something on the history channel. A man accualy put himself on a cross like he was crocified. to see if he body cound hang with just his hand and feet in the cross. It work. This just happen like 3 or 4 months ago. I just can remember who did it.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 



P.S. : you still didn't comment on how long it would take to die on the cross compared to being impaled, like i said, check out vlad the impaler, it is very relevant to this discussion. peace


Actually I did earlier in the thread. A person could take days to die on a cross and even live in the end, with medical help.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


live for days on a cross, after being beaten as jesus was......i disagree, how about being impaled?

i gracefully bow out of this thread. i am clearly out matched and have no clue.....so enjoy.

great posts by everyone, like i said matrix, I HAVE READ EVERY POST. when posts contradict eachother i question it alot.

peace
www.freeminds.org...

Matthew 27:32-33 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross. And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is
to say, a place of a skull.
[edit on 18-7-2008 by pureevil81]

[edit on 18-7-2008 by pureevil81]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 



live for days on a cross, after being beaten as jesus was......i disagree, how about being impaled?


Yes, here I would agree. I agree that he was impaled, but on a stake or tree, as the original text or original wording says, and as I have elaborated on earlier.

But you have not substantiated the spiritual reasons why he needed to die on a cross, especially considering the pagan aspects of it. And why are you so positive that he did? Of course leaving out; "this is what I was taught!" What is the historical information relating to Jesus that would back up this theory?

What proof does anyone have regarding the cross relating to Jesus? The original texts certainly lean in my favor, (and others wishing to investigate the real truth) not the other way around! I don't begin to be the only one or even the first to question the cross and its historicity connected to Jesus. People have been doing this for centuries.

To what are you referring to when you speak of contradictions in posts?

Have I denied the sacrifice of Jesus even though many now are?
Have I denounced the credibility of Jesus and what he has done for us?

What I am denouncing is this: the rotten method that has been put forth by unbelievers of Christ, or manipulators of Christ, to control the masses through lies!

This is my truth and anyone can take it or leave it.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 



Though the Bible does not specifically describe the instrument that Jesus died upon,


Freeminds.org is right, it doesn't. Although no where does it say that Jesus carried a patibulum either. I am very familiar with freeminds.org and have researched them often.

Redefining a word such as the cross in literature is not a new occurrence. It has been noted that some scholars complained about theologians changing the meaning in past centuries. The fact that "The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology" has their definition or explanation on it, is no surprise! But I would not take it as fact!

Which is why I bring up - over and over - the spiritual side. Would Jah and Jesus have anything to do with something so repugnant as the cross? Does it fit a spiritual message and is it without stain? Does it fit all the sacrifices that had to meet with Gods approval in the past. Would he fail with the biggest sacrifice of all...that being the sacrifice of Jesus, and allow it to be so tainted? What about the purity of the sacrifice itself?

The cross fails the test.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


i respect what you believe to be true, have no doubt about that. i have never said i was taught to believe this so thats what i believe. perhaps you just dont see my point.

let me clarify: the reason jesus died is the important part, not how....you seem to think that anything that goes against what youre saying is biased, not to be rude thats just how its coming off to ME. there was a point in time i was confused if it was a stake or cross, so i started searching, first thing i came across was a jehovas witness point of view. they claim they are unbiased and their translation is written by independant people, and i know that to be a lie. so having read everything you posted, and everything ive researched its hard for me to see how the truth can be found now.

jesus dies on a cross or a stake. i have read and researched both sides of this, never making it clear cut to me, so if jesus was on a cross, he could possibly live longer correct. if he was on a stake, being impaled, as vlad the impaler would do, victims would die rather quickly.

i stick to what i said matrix, i opt out of this discussion.

im just curious how you know whos feeding you a line a crap, and whos not, how do you come to the conclusion of whos unbiased and whos not? everyone seems to have agenda.

i wish you the best matrix.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


religious side, spiritual side. i have no clue here.

all i know is god has healed me, when i was younger. god has spoken to me before. god is my salvation. i still think jesus died on a cross for our sins. god has not shunned me. all i really claim to know is god is there.

" Which is why I bring up - over and over - the spiritual side. Would Jah and Jesus have anything to do with something so repugnant as the cross? Does it fit a spiritual message and is it without stain? Does it fit all the sacrifices that had to meet with Gods approval in the past. Would he fail with the biggest sacrifice of all...that being the sacrifice of Jesus, and allow it to be so tainted? What about the purity of the sacrifice itself?"matrixprophet


why would you say that the cross is repugnant, is it for you to decide how jesus should have died, no this is for god. nothing said in the above quote is for you or me to decide.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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Yes the cross IS just another lie!



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


I know where you are coming from but try telling that to the Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons, they too had Angel encounters, every spirit that denies the son of man (Christ) is not of God that was a set rule in the Bible.

So what ever you say it's always the same argument of being different beliefs it’s not the same as people think but everyone can detect God in the universe if they want to by instinct. There is no evidence of corruption in the Bible and the Koran has it's own set of rules.
The word Gospel means rumour to repeat and the Christian's did that too 2008 years ago. Before that and even now the Jew's recite every word of the Torah and many predating manuscripts and artefacts prove and not disprove the Old Testament.

Both Gabriel’s from each book are different and have sent different messages, so either one is right or wrong. Both Jesus’ are different and each prophecy are opposites of the end times like a mirror image. As an individual I trust my own experiences to mean what the Bible says is true.

I openned the Koran 3times at random to see what I was getting and I felt like I was being shouted at, it has a different voice to the Bible and the koran sounds angry. But one passage I read mentioned The Book, something about accepting it, I think either my God of faith showed it to me or he did not. I work my faith with suprises and impossibilities, I can not prove or disprove what I am saying.

Guess its better to have faith than not, but depends how people use it in the end to make them what they want to be.




[edit on 18-7-2008 by The time lord]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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I read all of this and decided to join, becuase I love any discussion relating religion. Everybody has different views on things. Lots of people change the way things really are to accord with there lifestyle. I truly believe that there is somewhere one TRUE religion, one religion that makes the most since, and one religion that does correspond and follow all of Gods words and teachings.

Going with Christianity, I truly feel that their are TRUE christians and those christians who mostly follow what God and the bible teaches, but changes it to fit their lifestyle...such as celebrating holidays/ idols/ hell? whatever else, but it seems that those may be discussed in other topics though.

So to continue on this topic, I want to say (even though everyone is saying the same for the most pary), that I to KNOW (in my eyes) that Jesus dies on a Stake, not a Cross.

Greek word rendered Cross in modern Bible versions is stau-ros'. In classical Greek meaning an upright Stake or pale. Later came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. Even amongst the Romans the crux originally an upright pole. Noted that the bible also uses the word xy'lon to identify what was used.
A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, defines this as meaning "wood cut up and ready for use, firewood, timber......piece of wood, beam, pole, etc stake on which criminals where impaled.

There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings that state the cross to be used for Jesus' death....it was later that the word stauros started to be defined as cross during the time of the Apostles. Deuteronomy 21 : 22,23

The shape of the cross does have an origin. Was used as a symbol for a False God Tammuz...Tau...the initial of his name. The cross of the T later lowered to stand for the cross of Christ. And we can get further into this like most are say by discussing Constantine. Also can go more into say Egypt monuments where the cross is symbolical of either phallus...representation of the male sex orgran or coition..cross with circle or handle on top.

But it all comes down to one big point with me and thats "idolatry" Some today wear crosses, bow down and pray to it, all something specifically stated we are not suppose to do.
1 Cor. 10:14 "My beloved ones, flee from idolatry"
Ex. 20:4,5 "You shall not make yourself a carving or image or any likeness of anything in heaven or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them"
"So he plainly is commanding that HIS people not even make an image which people would bow. "

And to put it in words that should effect any person who truly believe and loves Jehovah and his Son and that has some kind of heart toward the situation.....

how would you feel if family, or friend was killed for false reasons/charges...would you make a replica (specially a false one) of the death? Would you bow down to it, wear it around you neck, cherish it?

Again going back to Tammuz, when dead, the unfaithful Jews wept for him and God spoke of it as doing a 'detestable thing' Tammuz was a Babylonian God and the cross was his symbol!
Why would God allow his son to be executed on something that represented a false God???

Cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God. Stating again the important verse I did above Ex. 20: 4,5



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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And I'd like to get into this just a little deeper because its something that really gets to me, and even more so because some just cant understand, but i try to explain with enough insight and common sense to make it understandble and of common sense...very easy stuff to put together and understand.
But i feel if your going to discuss the cross, it should be discussed a lot more that God does not approve of idolatry!!!

I mentioned twice the scripture Ex. 20: 4,5 but also very good is Lev. 26:1 (which I personally know very well myself)....." You must make no idols; you must set up neither carved image nor standing stone, set up no sculptured stone in your land, to prostrate yourselves in front of it; for it is I, Yahweh, who am your God."

So you can easily derive from this the God is not liking it when those who do worship or idolize the cross.

How else can we be sure of this...one of my personal favorite stories...and also something that upset me very much upon reading....

The story of Moses, Egypt, and the Isrealites. Everyone has heard this story or maybe has watched the movie Prince of Egypt...more than likely has heard the phrase..."Let my people go". Moses with the help of God led the Isrealites out of Egypt. Once they got to the destination. Moses was called to the mountain top by God where he stayed for some time. This is when the 10 commandments where being spoken of and written. With Moses not coming back they began to worry. Aaron, Moses' brother also a follower had all of them bring their gold, which he melted down and made a Golden Calf. Some of the Isrealites began to dance, bow, and pray to the calf , saying that it was there God that had helped them. When God seen/heard this he was angry and told Moses to rush down and see what they where doing. He threw the 10 commandments down and they broke/shattered and he was so hurt about what was happening. He then takes the calf and melts in down. Moses the tells some of the men to take their swords and the people that had worshiped the calf must die..and so they killed 3000 men.
This easily shows that we should be careful not to worship anything/item/God other the Jehovah himself...no false Gods or Idols of any sort!

John 4:23, 24 "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father wants. God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth" (those who rely on images as aids to devotion are not worshipping God "in spirit" but they depend on what they can see with their physical eyes....meaning your being portrayed/decieved by these images and items (ie. the cross)
2 Cor. 5:7 "We walk in faith, not by sight."

And what does the bible say about these items of idolatry?
Deutreronomy 7: 25,26
"The graven images of their gods you should burn in the fire. You must not desire the silver and the gold upon them. nor indeed take it for yourself for fear you may be ensnared by it, for it is a thing detestable to Jehovah your God. And you must not bring a detestable thing into your house and actually become a thing devoted to destuction like it. You should throroughly loathe it and absolutely detest it, because it is something devoted to destruction."
(not saying though you should destroy these things that belong to another person)

I feel and believe it to be true with all my heart that the things ive written, quoted or have learned to be nothing more than true. The bible says so and what the bible says is what we're to follow. The Bible is written through God and to draw close to God is to learn and to follow his word. Those who follow otherwise are veiled to the truth because they havnt learned it yet or havnt come to understand these things yet to be true. And theres a being who go's around and makes these things so...veiling the truth..and its your choice to follow either Gods word or his..the devil, satan.


[edit on 24-6-2009 by decievedperception]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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I really just wanted to add one more story to sybolize more so all that i have said....versed story from the bible.

Isa. 44 : 13-19
"The wood carver takes his measuerments, outlines the images with chalk, carves it with chisels, following the outline with deviders. He shapes it to have human proportions, and gives it a human faces, for it to live in a temples. He cut down a cedar, or else took a cypress or an oak which he selected from the trees in the forest, or maybe he plated a cedar and the rain made it grow. For the common man it is so much fuel; he uses it to warm himself, he also burns it to bake his bread. But this fellow makes a god of it and worships it; he makes and idol of it and bows down before it. Half of it he burns in the fire, on the live embers he roasts mean, eats it and is replete. He warms himself too. 'Ah! says he 'I am warm; I have a fire here!' With the rest he makes his god, his idol; he bows down before it and worships it and prays to it. 'Save me,' he says 'because you are my god.' They know nothing, understand nothing. Their eyes are shut to all seeing, their heart to all reason. They never think, they lack the knowledge and wite to say, 'I burned half of it on the fire, I baked bread on live embers, I roasted meat and ate it, and am I to make some abomination of what remains? Am I to bow down before a block of wood?"

Ezek. 14:6 "The Lord Yahweh says this : Come back, renounce your idols and give up all your filthy practices."

i think this story strongly symbolizes what it is your doing when you create something and then worship it and how its wrong and in a way, not to sound like a terrible person, but stupid to do such things.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by decievedperception]



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by decievedperception
 


Thank you for your thoughts and your conviction!

I was surprised to see that someone pulled this out of my "put to rest" threads! Thank you for reviving it.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by decievedperception
The story of Moses, Egypt, and the Isrealites. Everyone has heard this story or maybe has watched the movie Prince of Egypt...more than likely has heard the phrase..."Let my people go". Moses with the help of God led the Isrealites out of Egypt. Once they got to the destination. Moses was called to the mountain top by God where he stayed for some time. This is when the 10 commandments where being spoken of and written. With Moses not coming back they began to worry. Aaron, Moses' brother also a follower had all of them bring their gold, which he melted down and made a Golden Calf. Some of the Isrealites began to dance, bow, and pray to the calf , saying that it was there God that had helped them. When God seen/heard this he was angry and told Moses to rush down and see what they where doing.


what escapes the notice of alot of christians is that the israelites made this calf to represent god. it wasnt just some random god they were worshipping, they actually thought the idol represented Jehovah.

many people try to make the excuse that cross worship is ok because they are not worshipping the cross, but rather what the cross represents all the while forgetting that this is wrong too.

exodus 32:[4] And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
[5] And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD. "jehovah" is what is original ly here.
[6] And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



what escapes the notice of alot of christians is that the israelites made this calf to represent god. it wasnt just some random god they were worshipping, they actually thought the idol represented Jehovah.


Yes, a symbol of the God that had delivered them out of Egypt, and also the fact that this denoted the practice done in Egypt which would bring in what they considered pagan, or a pagan practice.

Of course earlier the thread noted that the cross had its earliest beginnings with ancient Egypt (at least documented).

Thanks for your post!



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by decievedperception
The story of Moses, Egypt, and the Isrealites. Everyone has heard this story or maybe has watched the movie Prince of Egypt...more than likely has heard the phrase..."Let my people go". Moses with the help of God led the Isrealites out of Egypt. Once they got to the destination. Moses was called to the mountain top by God where he stayed for some time. This is when the 10 commandments where being spoken of and written. With Moses not coming back they began to worry. Aaron, Moses' brother also a follower had all of them bring their gold, which he melted down and made a Golden Calf. Some of the Isrealites began to dance, bow, and pray to the calf , saying that it was there God that had helped them. When God seen/heard this he was angry and told Moses to rush down and see what they where doing.


what escapes the notice of alot of christians is that the israelites made this calf to represent god. it wasnt just some random god they were worshipping, they actually thought the idol represented Jehovah.

many people try to make the excuse that cross worship is ok because they are not worshipping the cross, but rather what the cross represents all the while forgetting that this is wrong too.

exodus 32:[4] And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
[5] And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD. "jehovah" is what is original ly here.
[6] And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.


yes this i know, but the whole point is is that you dont make any type of idol whatsoever whether it be to symbolize God or Jesus...Again with Ex. 2o:4 ,5
"You shall not make yourself a carved image or ANY LIKENESS of anything in HEAVEN or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth, you SHALL NOT BOW DOWN to them or serve them. For I am your God, am a jealous God."

my 3rd post i edited above has a good story/long scripture too.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by decievedperception]



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