It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Hence the problem with organized religion which corrupts the very message it pretends to proclaim. I am sure that most people will understand that the crusades, etc. . . . were based on greed and perhaps some fear. It saddens me that this was done in the name of my Savior, who would have had nothing to do with it. I am positive that He was not consulted on this, or if He were, His council was not taken.
Originally posted by MatrixProphetOne of the major reasons that I feel it is so important to bring this subject back up is; because I feel it is one of the greatest hoaxes associated with Christendom.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet1. Jesus is said to actually have died (in the ancient writings) on a stake, pale or pile according to the original Greek word.
Originally posted by MatrixProphetThe writers of the NT or Greek Scriptures wrote in the common loine' Greek, and used the word stauros' to mean the same thing as in the classical Greek, namely, a simple stake, or pale, without a crossbeam of any kind at any angle.
Originally posted by MatrixProphetThe Greek word xy'lon was also used and had the same meaning as stauros'.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet2. Where does it speak of a cross bar or beam in the scriptures? The cross beam had a different word attached to it: patibulum'. No where does it say that Jesus died on a stauros' with a patibulum' attached!
Originally posted by MatrixProphet3. “Vines Expository dictionary of Old and New Testament Words” – Mentions the Chaldean origin of the 2 piece cross and how Christendom adopted it from the pagans in the 3rd century C.E. as a symbol of Christ’s impalement. “In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system, pagans were received into the churches…and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the crosspiece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ.” The lexicons then altered the word stauros’ to mean a cross to the ire of many scholars! (“The Non-Christian Cross” by J.D. Parsons 1896.)
Originally posted by MatrixProphet6. Medical evidence showing the likelihood that Christ did not die on the cross:
Originally posted by MatrixProphet8. There were not any historians recording the death of Christ. Historian Josephus was not around yet. He did speak of ones surviving a sentence of death on a cross and actually living (with medical help). Other historians such as Livy defined crux as a stake.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet9. Paganism enters the picture: “Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics” – “With the 4th century magical belief began to take a firmer hold within the church…The surest defense against demons, and the remedy for all diseases – using the cross.”
Originally posted by MatrixProphetChi-Rho are the Greek letters that make up the cross. None of these words are connected with Christ and his execution according to all the research I have done reading the scholars.
Originally posted by miriam0566
Originally posted by doctorex
You need to understand how crucifiction took place. Unlike the movies where you see a cross being errected, the main beam was stationed permanently. The hands were nailed to the cross beam, which was lifted up by ropes, then the feet were nailed on. This made for more efficent placing and removal of a person from the cross. Jesus was hung on a pole, or stake, while also being hung on a cross, there is no contradiction, just with the images in our head due to watching too many movies. Also tests have been done that prove nails in the hands do hold the weight of a human.
ok, do you have ANY references to this? or is it pure theory? because right now historical evidence is saying something different. even greek translations of the bible are saying something different
/2r6mgm (pdf file).
Among the several monograms used by early Christians to refer to Jesus, the so-called “staurogram” or “cross-monogram”, which is comprised of the Greek majuscule forms of the letters tau and rho, the vertical line of the rho superimposed on the vertical stroke of the tau, is of particular historical significance. The specific proposal that I shall support in the present essay is that the Christian use of this device in certain early manuscripts represents the earliest extant visual reference to the crucified Jesus, indeed, considerably prior to what is commonly thought to be the time (fourth or fifth century ce) when Christians began to portray the crucifixion of Jesus visually.
According to the (Roman) literary sources, those condemned to crucifixion never carried the complete cross... Instead, only the crossbar was carried, while the upright was set in permanent place where it was used for subsequent executions. As the first century Jewish historian Josephus noted, wood was so scarce in Jerusalem during the first century A.D. that the Romans were forced to travel ten miles from Jerusalem to secure timber for their siege machinery."(Biblical Archaeology Review, Nov/Dec. 1985, p.21)
Some experts doubt whether the cross became a Christian symbol so early, but the recent discoveries of the cross, the fish, the star, and the plough, all well known from the second century, on ossuaries of the Judaeo-Christian community in Judaea put the possibility beyond all reasonable cavil.(Michael Green, Evangelism in the Early Church, pp. 214-215)
In the case of a person suspended by his two hands the blood sinks very quickly into the lower half of the body. After six to twelve minutes blood pressure has dropped by 50% and the pulse rate has doubled. Too little blood reaches the heart, and fainting ensues. This leads to a speedy orthostatic collapse through insufficient blood circulating to the brain and the heart. Death by crucifixion is therefore [also] due to heart failure. It is a well authenticated fact that victims of crucifixion did not usually die for two days or even longer. On the vertical beam there was often a small support attached called a "sedile" (seat) or a "cornu" (horn). If the victim hanging there eased his misery from time to time by supporting himself on this, the blood returned to the upper half of his body and the faintness passed. When the torture of the crucified man was finally to be brought to an end, the "crurifragium" was proceeded with: his legs were broken below the knee with blows from a club. That meant that he could no longer ease his weight on the footrests and heart failure quickly followed. (The Bible as History by Werner Keller, pp. 348-349)
"In [Ezekiel] 9:4 the man clothed in linen is instructed to go through the city of Jerusalem and put a mark (taw) upon the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over the abominations that are committed in the city ... In Hebrew, the word Taw both signified a "mark" and was also the name of the last letter of the alphabet, a letter which, in the old Hebrew script, was still written in the elemental form of a cross down at least to the eve of the NT period, or even into that period.(The Archeology of the New Testament by Jack Finegan, pp. 223-224)
Originally posted by MatrixProphetAny time you change the structure or meaning of a word it will change the word. Stauros', crux, xy'lon, all mean the same thing! A straight pole or pile or stake.
In pre-Republican times, the Romans sometimes punished disobedient slaves by fastening them to barren trees and scourging them to death. Occasionally the victims were forced to bear the patibulum before they were hung. This form of punishment was called arbor infelix or infelix lignum, and several later Latin writers confused it with crucifixion. As a result, the two-beamed cross became known as an arbor or lignum (both Latin words mean “tree”).
"Though the procedure was subject to wide variation according to the whim and sadism of the executioner, by the Roman period several features were fairly standard. With a placard proclaiming the crime hung around the neck, the condemned prisoner carried the crossbar, not the whole cross, to the place of execution where the upright stake was already in place."
(Harper's Bible Dictionary, 1985 edition, p. 194; see also the Anchor Bible Dictionary Volume 1, 1992 edition, pp. 1208-1209)