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New Age or Old Nick?

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posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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I am authoring this post as a sort of antithesis of the subject matter discussed in my thread Proof of multidimensional molecules that know you're watching...Down the rabbit hole.

The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey is really the book of self-worship, with manifestation in the physical realm brought about through ritual. The pseudo-religious metaphysics talked about in the above-referenced thread and elsewhere, are also clearly self-oriented and purport that physical manifestation can be brought about by will. Ritual magick is really nothing more than the orientation and focus of the will.

Either way, it seems like having the ability to manifest physical reality to one’s own liking would be desirable. However, I would draw the line at doing so to the detriment of others, lest that manifestation become what I would consider to be inherently evil. This is the point where I questioned these New Age teachings which I have been exposed to lately. There was an interview on Larry King that I watched recently, but was taped sometime last year I believe. This New Age material was the topic of discussion, and the question was asked about what one should do about friends and family who were not on the same “path” as those who were getting involved in this New Age metaphysical movement. The answer was to basically let them fall by the way-side. That the more a person manifested and attracted that which they desired, the people and things that were not in accordance with that would fall away as a matter of course.

Well, that seems to me to be a convenient way to abandon friends and family who might be having troubles and are not on the same “spiritual path.” You should feel no guilt in abandoning the people you love, because this is really their own doing and once they realize this they will begin “manifesting” for themselves.

Now this brings up another problem. According to these teachings, you can have whatever you want and are really only limited by your own belief as to whether or not you can have them. If you don’t have what you need or want, it is simply because you have not gotten on the right sort of “frequency” to manifest it. And they take it further than the Satanists. If there are things in your life that are not desirable, you are actually manifesting those things as well, apparently through flaws in your own thought process. Your own negative thoughts and doubts are attracting all the bad things in your life.

I’m starting to have a problem with this. If I get shot in the head it was my fault, I attracted it? Suddenly I am left feeling like this whole thing is really just another scheme to prey on the people who really need help the most, while conveniently blaming them for their own plight. Another plot by the Satanic elite to divide the people and absolve themselves of their responsibilities to the people?


[edit on 3/25/0808 by jackinthebox]




posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 06:04 PM
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Let's not forget that the Deceiver wears many faces. We should consider that his most likely disguise would be that of peace, tranquility, and goodness. Some of these people in the New Age movement just creep me out sometimes. Why?

[edit on 3/25/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
Some of these people in the New Age movement just creep me out sometimes. Why?


Maybe it's the unsettling trait many of them have of abandoning the peace, tranquility, and goodness, when pressed and questioned? I've seen that occur many many times. And I'm not a young man. I find that to be the oddest behavior. I also find a strange lack of altruism.....replaced with an ego-centric viewpoint. The "self" part of it seems to be in opposition to what many, including me, interpret "spiritual" to be.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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Maybe they creep you out because this new age movement was created by satanists that traumatize their children until their mind breaks in childhood to keep a steady stream of monsters coming as new members and sacrifice any weak children to use their death agony to power their ritual magic with the ultimate goal being the creation of a world based on the mass suffering and slavery of 99% of the planet so that the other 1% can live in disgusting amounts of luxury? i could be wrong though



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:22 PM
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You seem to have a problem with the idea that,

" your life is a reflection of your perspective on it. If you go around seeing things as being terrible they inherently will be."

That's not new age, thats common sense.

I'm willing to make concessions for the children that get hurt, and the addled.

Still, God watches over children and fools, I'm living proof.

Still, the devil didn't do it.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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"I’m starting to have a problem with this. If I get shot in the head it was my fault, I attracted it? Suddenly I am left feeling like this whole thing is really just another scheme to prey on the people who really need help the most, while conveniently blaming them for their own plight. Another plot by the Satanic elite to divide the people and absolve themselves of their responsibilities to the people?"

You are on the right path, my friend. You are beginning to see the traps the New Age movement harbors. I have been there and I asked the same questions and got the same answers.

As I said in my post in the other, related topic, we can and do affect the quantum field in minute ways but must still abide by the laws of this material universe, we cannot materialize matter. You can gain wealth through the new age movement only if you write a book and do some tapes about how to get rich through manipulating the material plain. It is a scam for people looking for the miracle answer.

The New Age movement or philosophy (if you can call it that) has arisen out of combining Eastern Philosophy with Quantum Physics into a religion. It contains smatterings of Wicken, Native American and even Aboriginal spirtiualism. It is a catch-all.

That being said, as is with any philosophy or religion, there is a kernel of truth. Your job is to find that truth for yourself. No channeler, no high priest or priestess, priest, pastor or sulfur and brimstone preacher can find it for you. You are well on the way, you have seen the trap and are now wary.

There is a passage in the Gospel of Thomas (a heretical text banned by Christianity) that is one of my favorites.

When asked "How shall find the Lord?" (paraphrased) Jesus replied "Go into a closet." And another goes something like this:

"How shall I find the Kingdom of Heaven?" Jesus answered "The Kingdom is within you and all about you. You will not find it temples of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Lift a rock and I am there."

In other words, don't look to churches and organizations (religions) for the truth. The truth is within you.

You will find the answers within yourself. My advice is to learn to meditate and that will give you the only tool you will need. A spiritual guide is good, if you can find one without and agenda. And don't use drugs as a short cut - they give false answers.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will come." Buddha

Have a good journey.

All organized movements despise and fear Free Thinkers, because Free Thinkers cannot be herded like sheep.

Hopup



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


I can see where you're coming from, but "new age" is merely a mish mash of older beliefs that some threw together as a belief system.

Some would call me a new ager because I believe in consciousness and oneness without a religion to follow.

I do not follow any dogmatic belief systems, nor am I 100% certain on my beliefs.

I actually authored a thread you might find interesting on the "new age" phenomenon here



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Hopup Dave
 



"How shall I find the Kingdom of Heaven?" Jesus answered "The Kingdom is within you and all about you. You will not find it temples of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Lift a rock and I am there."


This is one my mother had told me a long time ago, and one I still think about today.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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Jackinthebox

Ritual magic huh, well, would you be willing to comment on it being the trail or diversion for a false belief, or religious doctrine?



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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I just want to make it clear that I am not experiencing any sort of spiritual turmoil myself. I find this sort of material interesting, but my own belief system is pretty well intact. Of course, I don't know everything, yet
, so I felt it might be interesting to share some of my more recent observations, and see what sort of feedback I get. But again, my beliefs are pretty well grounded. This is one reason I posted this thread as a sort of counterbalance to the other. Not that neither is true or untrue either, you see?



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by ADVISOR
 



Ritual magic huh, well, would you be willing to comment on it being the trail or diversion for a false belief, or religious doctrine?


I am not dure I understand your question. But if you are asking if I believe that ritual magick works, I have seen enough examples to say that it does. I have also experienced telekenisis twice, but have no idea how I did it.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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Very interesting, would you by chance, be willing to participate in a debate argueing the opposing sides of this subject?

I only ask, because I have not ever experienced, in my 3 decades, any super/supra or any un natural events. And am very much looking forward to finding any counter arguement of said occurance.

Of course, this does not anwser your question, so in essence, yes what the clarification could be, is that i am wondering if you beleive such "ritual magic" functions.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by ADVISOR
 



Very interesting, would you by chance, be willing to participate in a debate argueing the opposing sides of this subject?


Debate myself? Sounds insane, but I like the idea.


Seriously though, what do you have in mind?



I only ask, because I have not ever experienced, in my 3 decades, any super/supra or any un natural events. And am very much looking forward to finding any counter arguement of said occurance.


One truth that I have found is that it is extremely difficult to argue fruitfully that which cannot be proven. My own experiences have assured me that a "supernatural" realm exists here along with us, but of course I have no way to prove any such thing. There are some phenomenon, such as telekenisis, that have been observed under laboratory conditions over the years, but it is very diffucult to locate and verify such accounts thouroughly.



Of course, this does not anwser your question, so in essence, yes what the clarification could be, is that i am wondering if you beleive such "ritual magic" functions.


In general, yes, I do believe that ritual magick can have an effect in the physical realm around us, as intended. In practice however, I think most practitioners are charlatans.


EDIT: To add the M to "realm" um, twice.


[edit on 3/25/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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Ok, let's see how if any supprting evidenc can be obtained prior to a possable debate, between you and I, not you and yourself.

This way, if iether side, cannot find supporting material we can leave it as an open case. I would how ever be interested in a "challenge" via debate. It is an older ATS tradition, more commonly seen in the 2002-2004 days.
I how ever didn't get to debate until late 03, and well, one only needs to find the first debate forum page to see how that turned out.

In any case, I feel both of us would be able to entertain te idea with open minds and present to the ATS membership and well and soundly researched presentation.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by ADVISOR
 


Sounds interesting. Let's spend the next few days looking to see if we can gather enough material to make fruitful a display of our debating prowess (and to make sure I can dedicate enough time). I have never engaged in a formal debate before, and would be honored to break this lack of experience against an ATS veteran such as yourself. Shall we say, until Sunday 11:59pm Eastern to determine the potential validity of such a debate? Honestly, I expect we should be able to come up with something anyhow in that time.

In the meantime, I have decided to post two of my most profound supernatural experiences here on ATS this evening. If you are interested, please visit...

The Entity at the Sewage Treatment Plant
An Entity by Day



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 04:09 AM
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Interesting thread. Regarding New Age movements, I don't think there's a singular New Age dogma or philosophy in reality. As someone earlier said, 'New Age' is essentially just borrowing from a variety of old/ancient esoteric traditions and practices. Two 'New Agers' can be as different as a Christian and a Satanist so there's little sense in trying to attack or criticize New Age movements as a whole.

Furthermore, there are a large number of different strains of 'Satanism' - Traditional Devil Worship, La Veyan, Chaos-Gnostic, Pagan... etc. Not all of them are 'evil' in the strict sense. Some of them even work on the rather confusing concept that God is the true evil and therefore to be 'evil' is actually to be good.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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Every now and then more light breaks through the barriers, of the
status quo maintainers. Who want to keep the world, dumbed down and
in as much darkness as possible.
This new light, ushers in a "New Age". Like the age "of enlightenment."
The new age, sets people free from the bondage, that the elitist built up over the past. Then it takes a while for them to build up new blocks,
lies and misinformation. Fear mongering. ( Like; you'll fall off the edge of the world, if you leave). To build a new platform at the
top; where they are secure to lord it over the mass of humanity.
Every institution gets involved, with this keeping mankind dumb, and
working like, "Panokios donkeys".

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Howie47]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


Question, what type of LAW would be in pleace in this new age, and would YOU live with it, Or by it
or not at all



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by mrwupy
 


READ my reply below



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


I must agree with what you have posted. I apologize if anyone interpreted my meaning to be against the New Age movement as a whole. My true intention was to point out the paradoxes which exist, as they become aparrent to me.

This thread was meant as a sort of counterbalance to some of what was suggested and/or proposed in the aforementioned thread, but not to discredit it out of hand.



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