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ATS Shut Down? HR 1955 Bill Could

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posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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It is scary, but this is why we have a supreme court... ATS isn't going anywhere... We still have the right to fight and change laws through this process... Also doesn't ATS prohibit any such acts of terrorism on their site? I think ATS is smarter than the government and has nothing to worry about...




posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUncleSam
It is scary, but this is why we have a supreme court... ATS isn't going anywhere... We still have the right to fight and change laws through this process... Also doesn't ATS prohibit any such acts of terrorism on their site? I think ATS is smarter than the government and has nothing to worry about...


If you read the bill and listen to the vids you will see that, if this law is passed anything can be construed as terrorist language. That is why this is scary.

The supreme court shouldn't even have to deal with this issue, if people are aware and stand up before this bill passes, because it should have never gotten the votes it did.

It shows us the position of both the Democratic party and the Republicans, doesn't seem to matter who we vote for.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:57 AM
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More moves in panic by a failing Republic. The powers that be might be feeling "the fear". People are twisting off more and more, and the lack of fear with government and police has some at DOJ going into panic mode. This has nothing to do with domestic terrorists. It has everything to do with the fight against patriots. I highly doubt McVeigh needed the internet. And the Unibomber was anti internet. The gov wants to stop the flow of information and the power people connected can build........jeesh cant believe I just said all that
DHS flags all over that one.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 02:20 AM
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Here's a terrorist :
kwuark.newsvine.com...

"A man got into the Minnesota Homeland Security and Emergency Management office in downtown St. Paul last week and defecated in several rooms, police said Monday.

The incident happened about 1:30 p.m. Friday in a basement office area of 444 Cedar St., according to a police report. The man went in through an emergency exit door that hadn't been secured properly, said Tom Walsh, St. Paul police spokesman."



[edit on 26-3-2008 by pai mei]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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If ATS goes down is there any plan in place so that members can communicate with each other and organize themselves?

The reason i ask is that i was a member of a huge forum years ago that just disappeared without a trace and i haven't been able to find out what happened etc. since there was no way to contact the members.

I think if there is a risk of ATS going down we should all have some way to contact each other and start asking questions.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
There was another thread where S.O. stated that we'd move the servers to Canada if there was ever an issue of the US Gov't having the right to shut us down over the content on the site.



You can of course believe me or not believe me; if the US Government or any agency thereof, thought ATS was a real threat, it would be over. No one really realizes what can be done if they decide you're a real problem. "They" use sites like this to keep track of people; it is the quiet ones they never see or hear that they truly worry about..not a bunch of talkers and nerds The term "Nat Trap" has come up... but I will not quote.

My bet is the ATS Board has already been told the rules of the game and are playing.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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The Gov't already knows what is being said on the internet. It's more convenient that way as they can keep track of who's who. ATS, by default not complicity, provides the PTB with a wealth of information on just about every issue imaginable and, as such, is a way of "taking the pulse" of our societal mindset. So, no danger for ATS but individual posters beware - there is no presumption of anonymity. The Violent Radicalization Bill is just the next step in controlling the flow and the impact of information generated on the web, after all the Pentagon has declared it a possible weapon.

www.eff.org...


The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) urged a judge Thursday to force the FBI to finally release records about its now documented abuse of National Security Letters (NSLs) to collect Americans' personal information. EFF's filing comes as an internal FBI audit revealed that the bureau's misuse of surveillance authority has been more widespread then previously thought.

EFF sued the FBI in April after the agency failed to respond to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request about the misuse of NSLs. EFF's FOIA request came after an initial Justice Department report indicated extensive abuse of the powerful NSL tools. Now, the Washington Post has reported that a new audit identified more than 1000 potential violations made while agents collected data about domestic phone calls, emails and financial transactions of thousands of Americans. FBI officials told Post that there have likely been several thousand instances of abuse in total. This week, the FBI also released new guidelines for the use of NSLs, but that won't fix the core problem -- a law that's ripe for abuse.

"Under the PATRIOT Act, the Bureau can use NSLs to get private records about anybody without any court approval, as long as it claims the information could be relevant to a terrorism or espionage investigation," said Marcia Hofmann, EFF Staff Attorney. "We have heard again and again about how the FBI has misused this new power to overreach into the lives of ordinary Americans. It's time for someone other than the Justice Department to assess the documented problems, and long past time for Congress to fix the mistake it made in the PATRIOT Act, including repealing the expanded NSL powers it gave the FBI..."



More documents detailing secret government surveillance of AT&T's Internet traffic have been released to the public as part of the Electronic Frontier Foundation's (EFF's) class-action lawsuit against the telecom giant.
Some of the unsealed information was previously made public in redacted form. But after negotiations with AT&T, EFF has filed newly unredacted documents describing a secret, secure room in AT&T's facilities that gave the National Security Agency (NSA) direct access to customers' emails and other Internet communications. These include several internal AT&T documents that have long been available on media websites, EFF's legal arguments to the 9th Circuit, and the full declarations of whistleblower Mark Klein and of J. Scott Marcus, the former Senior Advisor for Internet Technology to the Federal Communications Commission, who bolsters and explains EFF's evidence.

"This is critical evidence supporting our claim that AT&T is cooperating with the NSA in the illegal dragnet surveillance of millions of ordinary Americans," said EFF Legal Director Cindy Cohn. "This surveillance is under debate in Congress and across the nation, as well as in the courts. The public has a right to see these important documents, the declarations from our witnesses, and our legal arguments, and we are very pleased to release them."

EFF filed the class-action suit against AT&T last year, accusing the telecom giant of illegally assisting in the NSA's spying on millions of ordinary Americans. The lower court allowed the case to proceed and the government has now asked the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to dismiss the case, claiming that the lawsuit could expose state secrets. EFF's newly released brief in response outlines how the case should go forward respecting both liberty and security.

"The District Court rejected the government's attempt to sweep this case under the rug," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Kurt Opsahl. "This country has a long tradition of open court proceedings, and we're pleased that as we present our case to the Court of Appeals, the millions of affected AT&T customers will be able to see our arguments and evidence and judge for themselves."


www.abovetopsecret.com...

cryptogon.com...

It's good that people are waking up to this ...for more information and a wide variety of analysis, there are many, many threads on this topic:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...




[edit on 26/3/08 by kosmicjack]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 09:01 AM
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HR 1955 could be considered mild to outrageous depending on perspective. Moving ATS servers to Canada could be a complicated effort legally speaking. Canadian ATS staffers (if there are any) might wish to review Bill C-250, Bill C-59, Bill C-36, Section 297 - 316 of the Canadian Criminal Code, Section 318 of the Canadian Criminal Code and Section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada. They're just laws. We're all just people.

Speak'



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Hey all,

Just a quick couple of comments on this topic.

My mom works at a nuclear facility, I have sent emails to her there, some were sent back, because of certain words, and none were of any type of threat, not even close.

My guess is that certain key words or phrases are indeed, red flagged and brought to the governments attention, because there is no way they could monitor millions of people and pages, but I bet they can monitor certain words and phrases, on auto pilot, which would trigger a red flag, then they would look into that particular email, or instant message or forum thread.

I have watched a short clip on this, and if passed, simple phrases, like I hate (President whomever) could be considered terroristic. Big Brother is watching, and Bush and his cronies are moving us closer to a dictatorship. Too bad every time I bring things like this up to friends, they shrug it off, like no big thing, It's not a big thing now, but it's getting bigger. soon it'll be too late.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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This is easy to avoid in case such bills do pass.One would be to move ATS on an international server outside US , they can't do anything about it since it's outside the US.They got a real problem with the internet.They can't control it.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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I wonder if protesting this bill would make me a terrorist.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
This is easy to avoid in case such bills do pass.One would be to move ATS on an international server outside US , they can't do anything about it since it's outside the US.They got a real problem with the internet.They can't control it.




really? They can't control what we have access to if the servers are not in the US? Are you absolutely sure about that?

I don't know a lot about how the internet works, but I would guess that, if the US Gov. wanted to, they could surely limit access to sites they don't want us to see. Isn't that a bit of what they do in China?



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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I love how it was voted on too. A role call vote. This way the debate was pretty much cut out. Kind of like what happened with the Patriot Act.

"Let's not talk about this foks. Let's just pass it." "It's about terrorism! I mean TERRORISM!!!!!!" "If you don't vote for it then you are with THEM!"

I'm still trying to figure out when this country turned into a Communist state...



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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This bill reaches much farther than blogging.

Anyone who exhibits dissent for the US Government would in fact be labeled a terrorist and extinguished.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, HITLER AND THE NAZI'S DIDN'T APPEAR OVER NITE!!

THE PEOPLE USHERED THEM INTO POWER FOR THE SAME EXACT REASONS!!



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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What I want to address is what constitutes 'force' in their book? That is so vague that it kind of concerns me with everyone saying that they are going to write their senators and such.

Here are the bills definitions:


`(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.



`(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.



`(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.



`(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.


From the governments website: HR 1955

Since they do not clearly define what force is will it eventually become a crime to write letters to our representatives telling them that if they want to keep their jobs (using the force of our will in the form of a threat) that they had better consider what they are voting for?

This whole bill on top of the Patriot Acts is just sickening. It's down right scary when you think of it. I try to avoid fear and I try to keep it away from my family. However, there comes a point when you have to stop avoiding the crap that is causing the fear and take it on.

This bill MUST NOT pass.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by Realtruth
 


this bill you speak of must be what i heard last week on our local news that the american government was becoming alarmed at the use of the internet for conspiracies-----------and that word conspiracy is the exact word they used.

they know bin ladden's and other islamic terrorists are sending coded messages to each other via the net but why use the word conspiracy?

might be best for ats to find another term to use for describing whatever secret societies are up to so we don't painted with the same brush?

when i worked for the federal government we all got reprimanded as a group when 1 guy messed up-----its their common mod of operation.for 1 to be singled out and the rest of us left alone that 1 would have had to been caught "stealing the crown jewels"



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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This is a thought by the alternative author G. Edward Griffin




"what is unfolding today is, not a war on
terrorism to defend freedom, but a war on freedom that requires the defense of terrorism.

From (The Chasm The Future Is Calling (Part One)
© 2003 – 2007
Revised 2007 September 18


It is at least an intereting way to look at today's news and posturing.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by enigma77

Originally posted by pepsi78
This is easy to avoid in case such bills do pass.One would be to move ATS on an international server outside US , they can't do anything about it since it's outside the US.They got a real problem with the internet.They can't control it.




really? They can't control what we have access to if the servers are not in the US? Are you absolutely sure about that?

I don't know a lot about how the internet works, but I would guess that, if the US Gov. wanted to, they could surely limit access to sites they don't want us to see. Isn't that a bit of what they do in China?

They can't really do that, they can limit the ways you access things but they can't cut you off.You can allways access things no matter what, You can allways use a proxy server and bypass anything this is the easyest way, no costs at all.You can get a satelite dish and have internet from an international provider, you can place a call and connect from another county to the internet by modem.
The beauty about the internet is that no one owns it.


[edit on 26-3-2008 by pepsi78]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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This makes sense to me. They want to make a revolution impossible. They want to divide the people so that they may do as they please. US citizens should really start to worry when the police knock on the door to take guns away.

Here is a 2 hour movie I watched last night. (Warning if your in a good mood this will make you depressed!)

VIDEO

I would strongly recommend watching this.



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