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The truth about "Thief in the night" and the Great Harlot of Revelation

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posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


I agree with you 100% on God may not be what most people think God is. Thats why I often will put God/Source/Creator. People seem to give God a human imagine. I perfer the word Source since I think of a more spiritual likeness instead of a human likeness. Creator sounds again like a human form kind of thing.




posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by Blueangel7
 


I think by the time anyone realizes the two witnesses came and went they will be long gone. I'm sure there would be a smear campgain against them so they don't seem to people who they really are. I'm sure that those that kill them know who they are but do everything to cover up any of the prophecy about them.

I guess this is what to look for.
Revelation 11:9-10,

Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[a] their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

It would have to be something big for world media to cover it. I'm sure they will be known not as witnesses but some kind of terrorist so the world will be glad they are gone.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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reply to post by napayshni57
 


Who do you think this is then :

REV 13:11
"Then I saw another beast which rose up out of the earth;it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was headed".

This is the beast that gives breathe to the image of the main beast (UN) and is associated with forcing the "mark of the beast" on the world.

As it is a beast, we are looking at a kingdom, a country, an empire you would think but in verse 18 we read "...the number of the beast (with the two horns like a lamb) is a HUMAN number....666" . This verse seems to suggest the beast is an individual ?

So are we looking at a PERSON who is very closely tied to the UN, such as the UN head for example....rather than a country/empire ?



What's your take on this Nap ?



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by cosmicpixie
reply to post by napayshni57
 



As it is a beast, we are looking at a kingdom, a country, an empire you would think but in verse 18 we read "...the number of the beast (with the two horns like a lamb) is a HUMAN number....666" . This verse seems to suggest the beast is an individual ?

So are we looking at a PERSON who is very closely tied to the UN, such as the UN head for example....rather than a country/empire ?



What's your take on this Nap ?


Rev 13:18


18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


The words " count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man"
can be interpreted from the original greek text as "the mutitude that voted for the beast".

"Count" has three meanings in the greek.

(1) to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon

2) to give one's vote by casting a pebble into the urn

3) to decide by voting

"Number" can also mean

1) a fixed and definite number

2) an indefinite number, a multitude

I am not finished with this analysis yet so its full implications are unknown. But with todays word actions these slightly different interpretations are interesting....



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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reply to post by heliosprime
 


That's very interesting. The only thing I wonder about is that this beast with 2 horns (some say this beast is the False Prophet, ie they are one and the same) is supposed to perform signs and wonders, which most people take to mean supernatural miracles of some sort. However, the fact that this beast exercises all the authority of the first beast "in its presence" suggests to me that the person talked about is not some sort of supernatural false messiah but rather someone who has a political authority ....The Beast as the UN combined with the EU (10 horns) is a political , economic and military system essentially so the BEAST WITH 2 HORNS has to be similar. A man, a human.....signs and wonders could simply mean grand gestures, actions , promises, etc

The 2 horns like a lamb originally suggested to me someone who is new on the scene (a lamb is young, fresh, new) , someone who heads a nation that appears lamb-like (Christian) and who runs for two terms (2 horns). Horns are always associated with power akin to powers of a king or president, the head of a nation/country.

We all realize I think that the USA has the most powerful influence within the UN (Beast) so the beast with 2 horns would be an American political leader. America are at the forefront of the agenda for a global currency system and previously I wrote about the UN 666 resolution tied to buying and selling.

Let me reiterate I am NOT a Christian, I believe all this is being deliberately staged so the elite can prepare the way for the arrival of their masters ....but I'll end with a link discussing the inumerable connections Obama has with the 666 thing :

Obama 666

PS) If the beast with 2 horns (who is also the false prophet ?) is NOT the expected supernatural -spiritual-demonic counterfeit christ then who is ?



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by napayshni57
 




If you notice there are not seven parts of the statue in nebbs dream. Yet rev 17 talks of 7. So the two of the empires had to come before the head for rev 17.


That's because nebb's dream statue was not fully mentioned in John's visions. John's visions did not concentrate on the original Babylon, Persia, or Greece. These were empires that would succeed the earlier. It ended with Rome.... the 4th empire. The legs of iron. Later in Daniel 6 or 7, Daniel has a dream about 4 beasts, each representing these same 4 empires but the 4th beast was unlike the other three. It was more like a machine than a beast. Within this beast was seven heads, ten horns and one little horn that uprooted 3 of the other horns. This defines what the feet and toes of iron and clay mixed were. This would be Rome but a series of revivals of the Roman Empire depicted by the ten toes and the ten horns.

Have you even gone to read my thread on the 7 revivals of the Roman Empire? You post your wiki view for me to read.... which I did. Now I urge you to read what I posted on my new thread so you get the full scale grasp of what I believe and why I believe it. Here... I'll put it here for easy access so you don't have to dig for it.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

It's long, but please read it. You speak of the statue of liberty and how she stands for freedom. You then go on to speak of Ishtar being the goddess of freedom. My understanding of Ishtar was that she was the Goddess of fertility and that is where the holiday of Easter came from.... hence the easter eggs (female fertility symbol) and the hare/bunny (male fertility symbol) which was adopted by the catholics from paganism in order to keep the Jews and Christains separate. Note that Jesus wasn't resurrected on easter or on a sunday. Read here about why Jesus died on 31AD as opposed to 33AD as so many christians believe due to good friday and easter sunday falling on Passover for 33AD. It's a false teaching and this thread will show you why.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Also, to help you understand why I believe the USA is out of the question for being the beast/superpower/political leaders of the tribulation, visit this thread on the USA and Britain in bible prophecy. It's very eye-opening.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

If you take the time to read through these three threads, you'll see WHY I believe the way I do on this subject. There's a lot to take in but maybe you'll get something out of it all.

This goes to anyone reading this post as well.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


I've spent half the day reading up on the idea that the USA is Babylon and there is an awful lot of supporting evidence. Before you totally toss out the idea, perhaps you could read through the following two articles :

Economic Babylon of Revelation 18 may be America

The above article also touches upon the idea of Eonomic Babylon having a spiritual counterpart, ie "Mystery Babylon".

www.sherryshiner.org/sherry/america-babylon.htm

She lists over 100 clues contained within the bible as to who Babylon is.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 

I have to agree with you pixie on this being all staged. I often say if you look back at the history of the human race you can see how events in history have paved the way for whats happening today. It's like humanity has been given a script and everyone has some part in it. Even if its a bit part. You can't change what is going to happen because the movie script was wrote and sold and had to be put into production.

You would think American invented slavery. Yet we didn't it wasn't an orginial idea over here. They had slaves in Egypt yet we talk of it as if it was an entirely different thing altogether. Would we of had slavery in American if there would of been no slavery in ancient history? Probably not. So our history as humans has lead us to this moment in time we have built upon it.

We were in another thread together. It was about a book. towards the end of that thread another poster came on. He talked of a dream about something evil he said it looked like pumpkin head. I told of a an image over a face I'd seen on tv for the first time. When I looked up his pumpkin head monster he had seen the same thing I had seen. Mine was over a face. I said this person was on tv a lot.

I think you are on target with your thoughts about the second beast. The number 666 is mentioned only one place else in the bible. Solomons gold per year he took in. Which to me means where you find gold/money/credit you'll also find greed and power. Not some of our kinder human traits. You'll also find lack of gold/money and credit brings out in many even worse traits. Gold/Money has become the leading God even in our churches. Even with the men that stand up there and preach the bible. If they knew their bible they wouldn't have preaching as a paying job. According to Jesus they aren't suppose to be taking money for spreading his teachings.

You are also right the US does a have a lot of weight in the UN. Whenever we don't like something we want action done that makes us happy. Or shall I say makes our leaders happy.

I also don't believe in the supernatural powers thing either. I think we forget we are reading what a man almost 2000 years ago saw and couldn't comprehend as modern day life and the technology that goes with it. In my time I have seen things go from sci-fi movies to every day home items. Would John of ever thought one person could command a missle strike bringing fire out of the sky? Don't think so would of looked supernatural to him though.

The link about Obama666. You already knew the answer to that before you read the article but just wanted more confirmation lol. You are very intuitive pixie follow your gut like you normally do. You'll have your answers.

Here is another thing to make you hmm. America had a friend his name was Sadam. When he stood up to Bush Sr his name was changed to Saddam. Understand the difference in the way the name is from when he was our friend in America until he wasn't. Also notice what he did and how he raised to power. Then see how after he angered our ptb he did a total 360 and became a terror. Don't stop with just the government issued articles go deeper.

Here is a bit of irony on that subject during this time America was starting to take God out of its government buildings. In God we trust was offensive.

During that same time Sadam was having inscribed on all government buildings God is Great.

Also see if you can find any articles dealing with the mutilation of his body after he was dead and in the governments hands. This will really make you say hmmm what were they afraid of?

Here's his farewell letter you also might find it interesting.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

I believe saddam/sadam ties in with biblical prophecy also.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


I do know about the dates wrong with crucifixtion. The birth of Jesus. Even our calendar is off by a few years.

I on the other hand don't hold these against those people that made those errors. They are human. They did what they were suppose to do. The bible states God made good and evil. So that tells me there is a purpose for everything. I don't have a problem with them trying to make everyone happy to have one main religion. Why should I? It's the message that Jesus spread thats what is suppose to be important. Not easter, not christmas. The message is what is to be understood taking the focus off the message with the dates is not what I really think Jesus wanted to happen do you?

So if I read your thread and you turn me into a believer and it comes down to you were wrong does that make you as bad as the catholic church then? Do you not become a false prophet also?

Keep digging on Ishtar. There is more than what you know of. Sometimes we stop when it fits into our mind set.

I will read your threads up unto the point where I feel that hatred has lead you to this conculsion and used to back up your theories. Hatred can blind us to other possibilities. When dealing with the bible and prophecy of any kind one must keep neutral or our emotions blind us to the real truth. Hatred is a darkness that keeps us from seeing the light.

Have you ever thought back in those days they just assumed Rome would always be so powerful. Much like Americans use to think we would always be the number 1 world power. Thats kind of iffy right now isn't it. Like Kmart was the number 1 retailer but she fell. Now we think walmart will always be...everything falls if you have enough history to see that for hindsight. In Johns day he didn't have quite as much history and the Roman army was an awesome thing to behold in those days. In those days you would not of imagined it could ever fall or not be the number 1 power.

And if after I read your threads we still don't see eye to eye you can be Obama and I can be the Pope and we can agree to disagree.

I don't really have a problem with pagans either. Probably because I actually research more than just what I'm told about them. Just for fun last night I decided with the full moon and luner eclipse and being a wednesday church night would be a good time to burn the brush pile. Give the S.B's something to gasp at on their way home from church. I love people that are in the mindset pagans are evil they are so fun to mess with



[edit on 6-8-2009 by napayshni57]



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


The first one is read. Here is my question the book you post from calls the Catholic church the false church. The Catholic church was not the first false church when you consider the fact during the time of Jesus he already knew a false church existed.

The Jewish temples in Jerusalem had no priest of the tribe of Levi. They actually had different teachings then the Jewish temples in Egypt. The difference was (a true historic fact here) the priest in the temples in Egypt were of the true Zadokite priesthood that is they were ligitimate descendents of the Levitical priest. Think back to what Jesus says to the priest in temples in Jerusalem. Which could make it very possible thats where Jesus spent all those missing years was in Egypt studying under the real priest hood. Not the false priest. Which would not make the Catholic church the first false church or maybe not even the false church you speak of today. It could also possibly mean that all churches today are of the false church since it all started in Jerusalem when Jesus came on the scene and started his teachings.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 


Babylon Mystery Religion, I believe is related to Crowley. Check it out. If you search through here you can find some pretty interesting reading. It is the US Grande Lodge/OTO web site.

oto-usa.org...

As for Babylon the city I would guess New York City as it is the headquarters of the UN.

Also remember that many of these secret societies that work within governing bodies, so the text in the bible may be referring specifically to those said orginizations.

As for 666, well if man is 5, the devil is 6 and god is 7 then maybe it has something to do with DNA.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Yes I know of OTO, I will revisit it though. I was earlier thinking that the mystery religion connection was another clue as to the Babylon of Revelations as it is well known ancient Babylon was practicing all sorts of so called pagan spiritual pursuits much like the Freemasons do and we all know about the Freemasons and America.

As for 666 I'm more inclined to take it at face value .. everywhere the mark is mentioned in Revelations it is always in connection to the global political authority that is the Beast and as Nap pointed out, 666 is related to gold via Solomon. Then there is the UN (Beast) 666 resolution tied to buying and selling...it all seems to point in a particular direction.

If the Beast is the UN then we have to figure out what "the image of the beast" is also...what about the prototype world currency that debuted around 11th July this year...the image there was of 5 interconnecting leafs that rather looked like the symbol of the horned goat ! It is meant to represent 5 continents joining together , a unified global system . Could that be considered as the image of the beast I wonder ?

I'm a bit stumped regards the issue of the image of the beast being given breathe so that it could speak....a TV does not really fit as has nothing to do with the UN or a monetary system. I'm not aware of any cash machines that use voice commands either. Perhaps IF they sorted some sort of chip a device that spoke would scan the chip, perhaps to confirm to the person holding the scanner that the person being scanned was kosha ? It might say something like, " Identification confirmed" or speak the person's name out aloud.....Just guessing atm ..........



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 


I agree about the currency, though I think theres more to it than just that. You need to check out this thread here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

By the way I have done some research on these, the denominations and compositions of these coins have the same values as the amero and I'm guessing also the euro.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 


maybe the word breathe means like a force or power. In Genesis God gives Adam the breath of life to make him a living soul.

Not life as with a humans but how many times have we said it seems to of taken on a life of its own by itself. Like a credit card. We give it birth and it seems to grow and grow and takes on a life of its own unless we basically kill it or lock it up unless we find the power to overcome it in ourselves.

Am I making any sense here? Ever have one of the moments that you know what you mean but the words don't seem to express it the way you want to say it?


Now I have to finish reading loco's threads..life got in the way and I had to stop.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


I am glad to say I didn't find hatred in your threads
but I found it ironic that I've had this same conversation a few years back with another fellow born and raised in GA. He now lives in Al. I bet you've gone to the same websites and read the same books because you are almost word for word him. He's from Athens is that close to Franklin? He's also a mason are you? I'm trying to figure out if its a mindset thing over there in Ga or a mason thing lol.

The tribes aren't lost. God knows exactly where he put everyone of them. The only thing lost is the people not knowing their lineage.

Have you noticed in the gates for the 144,000 there is no gate for the tribe of Dan? Some say because the anti-christ comes out of (not from) the tribe of Dan.

I would like to talk about the tribe of Dan.
Dan was the fifth son of Jacob. His name means , "to Judge" or "to set a straight course". As a tribe of Israel, while on the march or moving, Dan’s position was the last. When the tribes were encamped Dan’s position in relation to the Ark of the Covenant was on the upper right hand side or the "side of the North". Dan was also the designated meeting place, angelic or human, for all the other tribes to congregate for military or spiritual assemblies. Each tribe was given a standard or symbol of the Zodiac and a banner or flag that represented their tribe. Dan was given the sign Scorpio, (from the Egyptian symbol-the serpent). Finding the serpent repulsive as symbolic of Satan, Ahiezer replaced the serpent with it’s natural enemy the eagle as their symbol. The colors of their banner was red and white. The Danites were also a sea faring people living on the coast.

Now the U.S. The U.S in the hindmost of nation empires. As Dan was the last in procession. The United States first had a flag with a snake on it with the saying, "Don’t tread on me." That was changed to the National Symbol of the Eagle. Our flag has Red and White stripes with a standard of blue to signify a New Constellation in the Heavens with 13 stars. We set on North America.

Turn to Jeremiah 50 & 51. Jeremiah is not talking of the babylon of his time but a future time when the seed of Jacob regathers.

51:13 -dwells upon many waters

50:12 -the hindermost of nations, and her mother sore confounded

51:53 -Babylon should mount up to heaven (space program)

51:7 - Babylon hath been a golden cup in the Lords hand, which made the earth drunk

America when first founded was called the wilderness by nickname.

There's another scripture that talks of the lion with wings then its wings were cut off. Englands known as the lion. America sprang from England.

Heres another thing about the tribe of Dan and how they fit as the tribe in America.

An early writing by a Jewish writer Eldad, to the Jews in Spain sometime around the 9th or 14th century states, "...in Jeroboams time (957BC) the tribe of Dan, being unwilling to shed their brethren’s blood, took resolution of leaving their country."

The apocryphal books though not recognized as canonical literature by the church and should not be used as a source of inspired writings but can be relied upon for historical insight. Looking at 2 Estras which claims to be a series of apocalyptic visions of Ezra the scribe and was probably written sometime in the first century AD he states, 2Estras 13:39-43," And as for you seeing him gather to himself another multitude that was peaceable, these are the nine tribes (other Latin manuscripts say ten, The Armenian says nine and a half ) that were taken away from their own land into exile in the days of King Hosea, whom Shalmaneser, King of Assyrians, made captives: he took them across the river (Euphrates) and they were taken into another land... But they formed this plan for themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the nations and go to a more distant region, where no human beings had ever lived. So that there at least they might keep their statutes that they had not kept in

You may need to check on the crucifixition date of 31A.D I have info that has taken all the history and says that it happened in 30A.D.

Also I have a problem with people that write about a crucifixtion and events afterwards that were in hiding and didn't witness any of it. The stories don't match 100%. So that tells us there is room for err on their part.

What you posted did not change my mind on Rome or the Catholic church for the priest in the temples of Jerusalem were the first imposters. How many religions are based on the first 5 books of Moses? Where did those books come from? They didn't come from the legitimate descendents or heirs of the levitical priest. The Levitical priest weren't excepted in the temples in Jerusalem. Which would explain why the priest in Jerusalem wanted Jesus out of the way. He should of been the high priest because of his lineage and they knew that.

As I said I'll be the Pope and you can be Obama and I'll agree to disagree with you on this.



posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by napayshni57
 


Athens is in northeast Georgia. Franklin is in west Georgia, near the Alabama line southwest of Atlanta. I follow the teachings of Christ through the United Church of God and the Living Church of God. I go to the LCG sabbath services. We follow the spiritual laws of the Ten Commandments as Jesus also commanded...hence why we go to church on the Sabbath. We celebrate God's Holy Days of Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Pentacost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles, and the Last Great Day. They all have christian significance and were abandoned by the catholic church and replaced with Easter, Christmas, and all of the days of the saints (St Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, All Saints Day [halloween], etc.). We are unitarians who believe God and Jesus are two separate beings with the same goal who work together as Father and Son. The Holy Spirit is a force or power of God, not a god itself as the Father and Son are. We believe that the modern day tribes of Israel are the western nations as my thread that you read speaks the details of it. Just some background for you. I'm a Christian, but not a traditional "follow the flock" christain. I actually read my bible and study it with greek/hebrew, concordance, and outside sources. I know many angles as to what the end-time prophecies are but what I posted on this thread speaks my opinion on them. Good day to you.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by napayshni57
 


I'd agree normally but the verse says the image of the beast would SPEAK. Hmmm.

21-12: I will read that thread later, thanks. Started reading a book last night called "The Laughing Jesus" and it rips apart the Old Testament , giving rather a good case for (a) None of the main flgures like Moses, David, Solomon ever having existed and (b) The tales within the OT having no basis in historical events such that they appear to just be made up and (c) "prophecies" were written down AFTER the supposed events took place to make it look like divine premonition

I will have to do some further research into the basic evidence for this viewpoint but the author has made sufficient points to have my attention. I already knew alot of the OT stuff was ripped off from the Sumerian stone tablets (then expanded upon with some creative license). And likewise there is a heap of evidence to support the notion that the New Testament was also mostly a fairytale, with so called prophecies in that also having been written after the event simply to lend weight to the OT .

I've long thought the PTB in our generation have been/will continue to attempt to manifest prophecy that has yet to come true....what's your take on all this ?



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 08:29 AM
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It is more likely "babylon" the great city is Washington DC. The root word for babylon means "confusion". DC has been the great whore of the world for some time now. In recent weeks and months it is become clear to much of the american people and the world DC is a pit of vipers.

New York may be the center of money, but DC is the real power...........perhaps 666 is a combination of members of congress, obamas czars, etc...the "10 kings" are cabinet members who will have "kingdoms" for a short time......is there really any doubt obama is THE antichrist.........he certianly has the messiah complex.......



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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Whever you take spiritual symbols and try to attribute modern values to them you will always come up short and get the wrong interpretation of scripture. Also, using one dimensional thinking is also a stumblingblock to interpretation. Let me present another interpretation of "The Beast"

It isn't the European common market, but "The Beast" is a spiritual symbol of a Satanic Kingdom, a secret Kingdom sometimes referred to as the Illuminati, or the NWO, but it is compromised of various secret societies.

Currently there are six heads or six seperate Satanic Kingdoms making up the Beast system. They are: The Druids; Federation of Shamans; Freemasonry/illuminati; Tikkun; Federation of witches; Vatican. Six heads, and ten horns? the Ten Illuminati bloodlines of the Nephilim. These are the ten horns, not ten Nations of the common market as proposed by nearly every Televangelist.

This way we are equating spiritual symbols with spiritual interpretations and it gives a clearer view of who the enemies of the Lord God really are, they aren't the Nations, they are the rulers of the darkness of this world who run the governments through secret societies asnd secret more spiritual organizations.

The Beast then is just a counterfeit Kingdom of God made up of Generational Satanist who wish to control the Earth through their Satanic devices. The world needs only some real Christians who are both salt and light to overcome their hold on these Nations and their spell of witchcraft over the leaders of these Nations to change the outcome of the world and herald in the Kingdom of the Living God which is the central focus of all prophecy.



posted on Aug, 7 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 

Hey Pixie,
In a sense money does speak. Perhaps not verbally but in our mind it does speak and invites us to do things we wouldn't otherwise do. Or it stops us from doing things we would like to do. For not having any intellect it has a pretty good control over the masses.

Do I believe everything started in the mideast? No I believe there were small groups of people all over the world. Each group had their own Adam. The bible is just one of the many tales of how what we call the human race started. I also consider the life style of the time. Look around the world now we still have countries that live a more simplistic life style then we have the power mongers that want life to be so complecated. The mideast at that time wanted more than a simplistic life style. I've always thought the OT and the NT didn't belong together. Jesus teachings are more mystical. He deals with whats inside of you. Where the OT wants to focus on making the outside look good, follow rules but not so much as how to make the inside be whats in charge.

I believe translation has a lot to do with the way the bible reads. It's well known the scribes if they thought they were translating something that didn't make sense they asked is this what you want it say? I think they didn't understand things they couldn't imagine. Where other cultures excepted what was passed down to them. I think also man sensed the power behind this belief system and added their own measures of control. One of the things Jesus did was not cave into the rules set forth in the old testiment.

Jesus message is even misunderstood by the new age movement that many use him as an icon of having no negitive emotions. This movement is wrong also he did show anger he did show you have to stick up for yourself. The new age movement is just as dangerous to us as the one people want to tell place laws on us telling us we have to obey or go to hell.

Prophecy in the bible I think came as a warning to us of future things to come. Which I some times wonder if they saw what they saw or they were telling us how it ended before our present race. Perhaps we live in a cycle here that plays out over and over almost identical each time. Yes if I wanted to get my message out there of what I knew I'd look for a source that I thought had the backing behind it to have life for some time.

I don't find it a far strech from the Native Americans belief first man came out of caves in the earth to Adam was formed from the earth. I've often heard people say Adam came from the earth. Now it sounds more like we are talking the same thing.

One of the questions I've had all my life is why was it okay for all of these people to have visions of the future back in biblical days yet the bible condemns people for it. Yet in the NT that it will happen again yet still people are condemn for it by people that have let one persons interuptation of the bible be everyones. Everyone should have their own interuptation of the bible. Everyone is different it means something different to everyone. That is not how we are told by the tptb it should be. Which leads me to believe the bible holds pieces of the puzzle like all other cultures beliefs do. Sometimes we have to step out to another culture to see what is hidden from us. Or our source will direct us in someway to see those pieces.

I do have a feeling in the bible many of the gods and lords of the OT were not actually God. I think these are the ones and off spring of the ones that are behind the events of today and directed mankind in the past to come to this time and the future.

I've read in the UFO threads where many feel there is some kind of contract that has to honored and played out. This I can agree with. It's just a feeling I have that whats to come has to be. It's been planned long before it part of the bargin. Since my belief is all this is about perfection of the spirit to take us to the next level I have to ask myself perhaps this is the only way all the chaos and darkness for many of us to get to that next level. If we are connected to a higher source that holds all memories we may need the ones of this time to go to the next level and never repeat them.

For all we know this is nothing more than a spiritual class room and all these books and beliefs are our class work. As in school some get it some don't. Some dig deeper for the facts and others just learn what they feel they have to and others just don't try. Then you either graduate or you don't. If you don't you repeat it and your teachers that come to help have already been thru the same classes you have to take. Not all of our teachers in school did we think were for our own good. Yet even the teachers we hated taught us lessons or encouraged us either in a bad way or a good way to search for more and learn more.

Are the tptb terrible? I don't know maybe they are just doing what they are suppose to do. Are the people in the old testiment real? Wondering that has made you check into other cultures and beliefs. Being told a lot of what you do without trying is evil and of devil makes you look inside and recheck what you are on the inside. If you do that it's a good thing you don't become like the tptb. Like all other beliefs the bible has it place. It can be used for good or bad. Does it matter if the stories aren't true or the people never really lived? What matters is what we take from it how we take from it and if we use it.

I do find it a great learning tool about people. When they justify their treatment of people by figures in the bible. Which I find that figure wasn't acting for the good of all but for the good of themselves. It tells me the person that justifies their actions that way has no feeling for others and thinks only of themselves.

I do love the prophecies..I like comparing them to other prophecies and see that they are very much alike. When dealing with prophecies you have to keep your emotions out of it. I've been shown things and I think no can't be. So then I have to take it upon myself to keep digging until I find the truth even if it is against everything I've been taught or believed.



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