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The truth about "Thief in the night" and the Great Harlot of Revelation

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posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


This is a most interesting thread-Flag and Star!


10."There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
-This explains the 7 revivals of the Roman Empire. 5 passed... 6 was Hitler and the 7th is the EU.


If Byzantium was one revival,and the Holy Roman Empire was another

What are the other three revivals which have passed? Perhaps you could explain please, was the British empire another?

For the Prophet Mohammed's predictions of the approach of the day of judgement see the thread I started ,a few days ago :

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Did the Prophet Muhammed predict Osama Bin Laden?

These prophecies too can be taken as referring to our own times

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Bashibozkedi]

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Bashibozkedi]




posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
the corrupt ways of the Roman Catholic Church


Your laundry list is tiresome. Just the typical anti-catholicism that raises it's ugly head here every so often.
Ya'll come in waves.

You've never actually read the Catholic Catechism to see what the church teaches, have you?

All of your laundry list has been addressed MANY TIMES in the BTS religion forum. Even the 'call no man father' stuff. All of it.




posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
Now, here's the key (again), we are still to be awake AND watching AND sober, if we are, IT WILL NOT CATCH US LIKE A THIEF...with our "spiritual pants" down at our ankles!


what do u mean by spiritual pants?


Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
But another person, he decides, wait, I know he's coming tonight, but I don't know the EXACT HOUR. He stays up, he IS WATCHING, he's watching throughout the whole night, for "THAT HOUR", he is prepared, he is spiritually ready. The thief MAY come at ...midnight, or cockcrowing...or morning...
The point is : HE'S AWAKE, WATCHFUL AND SOBER.
HE'S READY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what do u mean by this? are we actually meant to stay awake literally? as in stay awake at all hours of the day & night regardless if we know the exact day of the lord's return or not? if that's what you meant, how do u know that paul really meant that when he wrote that passage from 1 thessalonians chapter 5 regarding staying awake. he could of mean it symbollically or using expressions to make a point. surely, if paul meant it literally he would of been more detailed to say "don't fall to sleep, don't even blink an eye, and if you feel tired, try to stay awake, for that hour might come and if you are asleep, you will miss the day of the lord. if you feel tired slap your self, better to slap your self 1000 times to stay awake, than to fall asleep and miss the hour of our lord." but there's not much detail to that point. surely paul would of emphasized and stressed this out if that was the teaching. i could be wrong obviously, i'm not saying that's what he meant. but how do we know paul really meant that.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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"spiritual pants"...well of course this is not a biblical phrase per say.

What I meant by those with their "spiritual pants" down their ankles, is people who are not living the book.

The bible of course DOES talk about being dressed with various gaments (which are of course symbols, not literal).

Like being gird about the loins with truth...and so forth. It's interesting, that it is THE LOINS that is gird about by truth. What happens if they are not? It means YOUR PRIVATES ARE EXPOSED! Revelations. Discusses this, when it talks about the Laodicean age, walking around NAKED AND EXPOSED to their shame. That is, they no longer cling to the truth, and are as good as naked, with their privates exposed. Again, just to emphasize, it's not talking literally exposed, it's symbolic of not having the truth.

Now when I say stay "awake", I do not mean, nor does the bible mean literally, in a physical way.

So what does "awake" mean?
I could say anything, but what does the BIBLE SAY IT IS?

You know, it's fascinating, the Bible actually has a specific definition! It does not leave you to guess. IT TELLS YOU! And the definition is fascinating.


Here is the Bible Definition!

1 Corinthians 15:34 (King James Version)
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Ah....but now, what is RIGHTEOUSNESS??

Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Deuteronomy 6:25
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

AH! So there it is, to be "awake" is to be "awake to righteousness" and righteousness is related to the 10 commandments,

"If WE OBSERVE to do all these commandments" THEN we are righteouss!

So being awake means : WE ARE COMMANDMENT KEEPERS (including 7th day Sabbath)!!!!!

I love how the bible is like this puzzle, it's great to JUST READ IT, AND BELIEVE IT, believe what it says!





[edit on 26-3-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

[edit on 26-3-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

[edit on 26-3-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


Nice post, however I was simply stating that the Catholic Church and roman Empire are everywhere. Just take a drive down the street and your bound to see a church decorated in Pagan symbolism. There are masonic lodges in practically every town in America. They are everywhere, not just the Vatican.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


I understand what you're saying. I'm simply stating that Rome and the Vatican are the origins of catholicism and revelation speaks of these specific things. I understand that catholicism is everywhere and that the Roman Empire is everywhere but the physical roman empire is revived through the EU.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I know what the church teaches. It was created after the original church of God. Here is some insight on the origins of catholicism....

Acts 8:9

There was a certain man named Simon who previously had been in the same city practicing magical crafts and astounding the people of Samaria, giving the impression that he was some great person.

Simon Magus was an intellectually-talented individual who fancied himself as a kind of priest and prophet who practiced the arts of astrology and mysticism. He was received by many as a wise man, a prophet and a priest. Many people held Simon Magus in high regard and followed what he said because they believed he was from God.
In Samaria, some of these same people heard Phillip teaching about Jesus Christ and they believed what he preached concerning the Kingdom of God, so they were baptized. Simon believed much of what Phillip was preaching and he followed through him. All this fascinated Simon Magus. When Simon saw Peter and John laying hands upon those who had been baptized, he witnessed these people receiving the power of the Holy Spirit from God. Simon wanted this same power, and he offered the disciples money if they would lay hands upon him; but Peter chastised him, knowing that Simon Magus did not grasp what he had witnessed concerning what God was doing in His Church. Simon simply wanted the same power in order to be like Peter and John, but he did not want the truth the disciples were teaching.
After this, Simon Magus gave up his quest to become great among the disciples. Instead, he set out to reestablish his own influence over people by using mysticism and cunning deception, just as he had been doing before. He did this in order to be accepted as some great teacher who had received special pwers from God, just like the disciples.
Simon Magus became the father of one of the greatest deceptions ever foisted upon mankind. He set out to establish a counterfeit of what he saw the desciples doing. In order to accomplish his new pursuit of self-aggrandizement, he went so far as to take upon himself the name of the CHIEF APOSTLE to the Jewish people, SIMON PETER. Since the disciples were establishing a church, he continued his great lie by establishing his own version of christianity and a different church.
He began to mix his own ideas and past beliefs with what he had witnessed and learned from Peter, John and Phillip. It was from this very moment in time that a counterfeit of the true Church emerged on the scene. Two branches, both calling themselves Christian, began to grow. One would always be small, and it would always be rejected by the world. This small Church was the one, true branch because it was from God and it was sustained by His great power. It is the true Church of God.
The other branch was counterfeit and became filled with pagan rituals and teachings. It was established by Simon Peter (Magus) and it grew and flourished, becoming larger and more popular in the world.

So you see, the history of the two branches of christianity write it out in crayon for you. I have no need to explain myself to you. You reject God's Church and criticize me for speaking the truth, and that's okay. Just realize that a little research goes a long way.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I know what the church teaches. It was created after the original church of God. Here is some insight on the origins of catholicism....

Acts 8:9

There was a certain man named Simon who previously had been in the same city practicing magical crafts and astounding the people of Samaria, giving the impression that he was some great person.

Simon Magus was an intellectually-talented individual who fancied himself as a kind of priest and prophet who practiced the arts of astrology and mysticism. He was received by many as a wise man, a prophet and a priest. Many people held Simon Magus in high regard and followed what he said because they believed he was from God.
In Samaria, some of these same people heard Phillip teaching about Jesus Christ and they believed what he preached concerning the Kingdom of God, so they were baptized. Simon believed much of what Phillip was preaching and he followed through him. All this fascinated Simon Magus. When Simon saw Peter and John laying hands upon those who had been baptized, he witnessed these people receiving the power of the Holy Spirit from God. Simon wanted this same power, and he offered the disciples money if they would lay hands upon him; but Peter chastised him, knowing that Simon Magus did not grasp what he had witnessed concerning what God was doing in His Church. Simon simply wanted the same power in order to be like Peter and John, but he did not want the truth the disciples were teaching.
After this, Simon Magus gave up his quest to become great among the disciples. Instead, he set out to reestablish his own influence over people by using mysticism and cunning deception, just as he had been doing before. He did this in order to be accepted as some great teacher who had received special pwers from God, just like the disciples.
Simon Magus became the father of one of the greatest deceptions ever foisted upon mankind. He set out to establish a counterfeit of what he saw the desciples doing. In order to accomplish his new pursuit of self-aggrandizement, he went so far as to take upon himself the name of the CHIEF APOSTLE to the Jewish people, SIMON PETER. Since the disciples were establishing a church, he continued his great lie by establishing his own version of christianity and a different church.
He began to mix his own ideas and past beliefs with what he had witnessed and learned from Peter, John and Phillip. It was from this very moment in time that a counterfeit of the true Church emerged on the scene. Two branches, both calling themselves Christian, began to grow. One would always be small, and it would always be rejected by the world. This small Church was the one, true branch because it was from God and it was sustained by His great power. It is the true Church of God.
The other branch was counterfeit and became filled with pagan rituals and teachings. It was established by Simon Peter (Magus) and it grew and flourished, becoming larger and more popular in the world.


So you see, the history of the two branches of christianity write it out in crayon for you. I have no need to explain myself to you. You reject God's Church and criticize me for speaking the truth, and that's okay. Just realize that a little research goes a long way.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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Two branches, both calling themselves Christian, began to grow. One would always be small, and it would always be rejected by the world. This small Church was the one, true branch because it was from God and it was sustained by His great power. It is the true Church of God.
The other branch was counterfeit and became filled with pagan rituals and teachings. It was established by Simon Peter (Magus) and it grew and flourished, becoming larger and more popular in the world.



Yes, unfortunately a mind convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

The evidence that the Catholic Church is the Great Whore, is there for those who want to truly know.

I am told, that a particular Catholic study bible (I don't know which version, so haven't verified it), IDENTIFIES ITSELF as the Great Whore. In other words in Revelation, the passage refering to the Great Whore, is identified with the Catholic Church, in this study bible. But the explanation is that it refers to the Catholic Church of the Dark Ages. lol.

As to taking on titles like "father" mentioned in early post...I'll address this when I get a chance, but it is wrong the way the Catholics do it.
(yes, I'm familar with their arguments supporting it).



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib_2
 


I'm glad someone agrees with me. It's like I spout out the research proving my argument yet people still tend to discredit it. I'm not worried though. I posted this thread to enlighten people who are confused and critics just flock to it.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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Do you guys think that the Great Whore may have ties to Mary of Guadalupe? As seen in Catholic symbolism this icon is abundant.

What about the wine with the wrath of the great whores fornication? Could this be literally speaking about wine, say perhaps, communion wine? Or do you interpret as something different, like say accepting false teachings and living a life of ignorance?

What do you make of the word fornication, do you think it literally means sex or could it have to do with a bloodline? Or could it mean that by fornicating society has passed down these false teachings through tradition?

What about the 144,000 virgins? Do you consider them to be literal virgins or the last generation of children who are not spoon fed lies and do not buy into the Roman Empires agenda, because over time society has awakened to the false teachings and secret religions designed to draw people further from God by teaching them falsities?



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 



The Harlot does not represent an actual woman prostitute but rather the corruption the Roman Empire has passed down through time thanks to the Catholic Church. The Protestant Reformation was a break-away from catholicism yet the protestant denominations still follow some of the catholic traditions. This is the symbolism of fornication. People have accepted false ideas and false teachings in christianity. The wine is simply what people accept to be truth rather than looking for the real truth.

[edit on 3/26/2008 by Locoman8]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
Do you guys think that the Great Whore may have ties to Mary of Guadalupe? As seen in Catholic symbolism this icon is abundant.


Women, in the book of Revelation = Church.
There are two "women" mentioned in Revelations.
1) One is the true Church (Rev. 12)
this chapter gives an overview of the Church's history
2) One is the false "Christian" Church (Rev. 17)
this is the Catholic Church.



What about the wine with the wrath of the great whores fornication? Could this be literally speaking about wine, say perhaps, communion wine? Or do you interpret as something different, like say accepting false teachings and living a life of ignorance?


Revelation 17:1-3 (King James Version)
"the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication."

Notice...this wine is not made of grapes, it is the "wine of her fornication"
It is not communion wine.



What do you make of the word fornication, do you think it literally means sex or could it have to do with a bloodline? Or could it mean that by fornicating society has passed down these false teachings through tradition?


It's not about literal sex, a church "fornicating", is one that (as you said) is a Church that has betrayed her Husband (Christ) by "cheating" on him by being aligned with the world and its pagan systems. Along with this comes the eventual acceptance and passing on of false teachings, doctrines, and traditions. (things like Sunday worship, Christmas, Easter...etc...would be primary examples).



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
Do you guys think that the Great Whore may have ties to Mary of Guadalupe?



not really....
because in Revelation (somewhere... and the last verse of a chapter)
it states the woman (aka: whore atop the Beast) is that 'great city'
(aka: new Babylon)


here's my take on that verse's interpetation ->

The 'Woman' who is also that City.
the idea 'city' represents the idea 'civilization', and all the attending
cutting-corners as to morality and cutting-corners as to ethical living
which one finds in a cosmopolitan setting...

i.e. mans' government & socio-economic influence in everyday city-type life is both thoroughly corrupt & prostitutional in nature... and that is what is being addressed---
humanity crammed like rats in a confined space (whether in ancient Babylon or present day NYC) have a tendancy to regress into troglodites and little more than animals with a shallow veneer of compassion or humanity.
The many bankers, pushers, perverts, idolters, pedophiles, liars, stealers & theives, murderers & whoremongers are the denizens of this type of cesspool of life... the 'good' people insulate themselves from the surrounding poisonous & vile characters we are obliged to call citizens or people.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Do you guys think that the Great Whore may have ties to Mary of Guadalupe?



not really....
because in Revelation (somewhere... and the last verse of a chapter)
it states the woman (aka: whore atop the Beast) is that 'great city'
(aka: new Babylon)


here's my take on that verse's interpetation ->

The 'Woman' who is also that City.
the idea 'city' represents the idea 'civilization', and all the attending
cutting-corners as to morality and cutting-corners as to ethical living
which one finds in a cosmopolitan setting...

i.e. mans' government & socio-economic influence in everyday city-type life is both thoroughly corrupt & prostitutional in nature... and that is what is being addressed---
humanity crammed like rats in a confined space (whether in ancient Babylon or present day NYC) have a tendancy to regress into troglodites and little more than animals with a shallow veneer of compassion or humanity.
The many bankers, pushers, perverts, idolters, pedophiles, liars, stealers & theives, murderers & whoremongers are the denizens of this type of cesspool of life... the 'good' people insulate themselves from the surrounding poisonous & vile characters we are obliged to call citizens or people.


Well she sits atop most churches. Just like the point I made earlier, the Roman Empire is all around us. I believe that America is Babylon, NY more specifically because it is home to the UN, however the Vatican being it's central headquarters.

So the bible goes on to say that Babylon is eventually destroyed, if the Roman Empire is indeed everywhere, how do you think this event might take place? Do you think that the fall of Babylon is the fall of religion, government or both?



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
Now when I say stay "awake", I do not mean, nor does the bible mean literally, in a physical way.

So what does "awake" mean?
I could say anything, but what does the BIBLE SAY IT IS?

You know, it's fascinating, the Bible actually has a specific definition! It does not leave you to guess. IT TELLS YOU! And the definition is fascinating.


Here is the Bible Definition!

1 Corinthians 15:34 (King James Version)
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.


that's a good interpretation. yes, that's what i love about the good book, it always explains itself.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
What I am interested in learning more about is this passage right here.

"4.The woman was arrayed in PURPLE AND SCARLET, AND ADORNED WITH GOLD AND PRECIOUS STONES AND PEARLS, HAVING IN HER HAND A GOLDEN CUP FULL OF ABOMINATIONS AND THE FILTHINESS OF HER FORNICATION."

Notes about this passage.

It is about the "Scarlet woman"
The bibles description of the scarlet woman has many parallels to the Statue of Liberty, which is also said to be a personification of Isis.
Aleister Crowley the self proclaimed "Beast" had about 6 "scarlet women"

Aleister Crowley and Pauline Pierce took part in a secret sex ritual called "Como erotos lucidity" about nine months later Barbara Bush was suppposedly born to Pauline Pierce, ironically enough it was about the same time period of Crowley s death.

If you can solve this mystery you get a gold star!


Interesting you mention the woman dressed in scarlet and purple.

I just want to make a point on how I interpret symbols in the bible by using an excerpt from Revelation 1


Revelation 1: 16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.


Obviously, reading from the context in previous verses this description is refering to the Son of Man (Jesus). What's peculiar is the metaphors used to describe Jesus. But lets be honest, DO WE REALLY THINK THAT JESUS HAS A SWORD COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH?

So how can i figure out exactly what this passage means, obviously its riddled in symbolism. TO FIGURE IT OUT, YOU HAVE TO USE OTHER PARTS OF THE BIBLE!


Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


If you read Hebrews 4:12 and Revelations 1:16 you can put it together and figure out that the sharped two edge sword represents the WORD OF GOD. How did i know that? Because the bible says so!

The reason why i bring this up is because its very easy to reach at things and say that purple and scarlet woman represents the statue of liberty.

I hear things like the mark of the beast is a microchip or a stamp. Where's the BIBLICAL proof?

I can PROVE to you that according TO THE BIBLe who the lamb is in Revelation 21:22


Revelation 21:22 (Whole Chapter)
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.


Who is the lamb this verse is talking about? Bill Clinton! its a prophecy! Or is it?

How can YOU prove to me that the Lamb ISN't bill clinton? EASY, THE BIBLE TELLS US WHO TEH LAMB IS.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

So in short, if there's a symbol in Revelation that you just can't seem to get, Perhaps if you look in other parts of the bible, the bible can tell you what the symbol represents. I've just used two simple examples with the two edged sword and the lamb, perhaps you guys, with the help of the Holy Spirit, can find out what exactly all these symbols in Revelation represent.

In the end, I just want to impress upon you the beauty of how the bible can define itself. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to read Revelations when you use the bible to interpret its symbols. Doing so will give a sense of consistency on how to read it instead of going out on a limb on some bible texts and "guessing" that the mark of hte beast is a micro chip, or a stamp, or bar code but then use a different method to definitely interpret the lamb in Revelation as Jesus because other parts of the bible confirms it.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by Shortness]

[edit on 27-3-2008 by Shortness]



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 06:19 AM
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In the end, I just want to impress upon you the beauty of how the bible can define itself. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to read Revelations when you use the bible to interpret its symbols



Yes..the bible is like a great puzzle. You have to gather the pieces from different books together. When you put them together you get the truth!



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by Shortness
 


You did a wonderful job explaining how the Bible works. People read passages and take them literally sometimes like "thief in the night" and forget that the Bible is full of parables and symbolism. Just look in the Gospels of Jesus when he mentions the parable about the fig tree. My whole reason for starting this thread was to show people that reading a little bit of the Bible really helps. Instead of reading about how Jesus will come like a thief in the night, keep on reading and realize that he specifies the people who are "spiritually awake" will be ready for his return while everyone else "spiritually sleeps or is spiritually drunk" with blindness of the truth.

I also want to thank the folks who are helping me to better interpret the symbolism about the Harlot woman. Sometimes I say things and it tends to sound like babble because I try to fit too much stuff in a post. So thanks to all who are helping this thread along. I didn't think people would be interested in what I had to say. I have a critic or two on here thinking my comparison of the Harlot woman to the Catholic church is a joke but it's worthwhile when I see other people wanting more info on the interpretations. I'm new here on ATS and I was happy to find the Predictions Board on here because I am very in to prophecy and spreading the truth about christianity. Amen to the open-hearted who admire the truth! I also pray that the Lord protect us through these troubled times that are ahead of us.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 08:36 AM
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Just a few points to make for you bible thumpers to ponder over:



  1. There are 27 Nations in the EU, not 10
  2. The EU does not have a Capital. Brussels is merely one of the two administrative centres, the other being Strasbourg, in France.
  3. The City of Byzantium (Constantinople/Istanbul) is founded on Seven hills, just like Rome
  4. Byzantium was the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire and lasted for 1000 years after the fall of Rome, until taken over by the Islamic Caliphate of the Ottomans


Keep going, I'm sure you can tie it all up somehow.....



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