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EU Plowing Through Sovereignty - No Votes Allowed

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posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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Omg, I can't believe what I'm seeing.

I'm not to familiar with the EU, but I know the NAU is coming here to the states. It right now the NWO is practicing how to destroy the sovereignty of nations by nullifying their constitutions, and the worst part is that it is working.....


When the EU Parliament wanted a referendum to discuss approving last minute changes to their soon to be constitution...not only were they repeatedly refused to vote but then over-ruled and even so far as to be reprimanded and forcibly removed:



EDIT: I know the clip is a little long, but if you care about whats coming from the NWO in our future, you need to watch the whole thing.

[edit on 3/25/2008 by Choronzon]




posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 08:36 AM
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This is how it begins, countries lose their right to vote, and you have un-elected world elite making choices for your sovereign nation without any representatives.

America is preparing for the North American Union, which is already in the works. The legislation has already been approved and not by our congress mind you but via executive order of the president. In a sense we've already lost our right to vote.

I'm telling you people if you do not make your state representatives aware of what is going on, it will be too late.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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Good find Choronzon. Dark days lay ahead for us. There is time though for us to put a stop to it.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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Because the EU hasn't been good at all for Europe.

Come on, guys, at least find a boogeyman who's scary!

Human evolution demands societies merge, as each country works closer together. If we look further back in history, we can see that each country was usually split into smaller areas, each with their own government. It's normal social evolution. It's only scary if you don't trust the government, at which point the problem is no longer the government in question, but whether it can be trusted, which is a completely different question.

So, we can either work towards having the government we deserve, or we can be luddites and baselessly moan and complain about what's going to happen anyway, and give up any chance of forging a future we actually deserve.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by dave420
Because the EU hasn't been good at all for Europe.

Come on, guys, at least find a boogeyman who's scary!

You don't find that countries are not given the right to view and vote on changes to a constitution they are forced to take scary?

You don't find a parliament who expels members who do not vote faborabley scary?

How is that freedom?

[edit on 3/25/2008 by Choronzon]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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This is sick. It makes me furious to see the arrogance of these people! It's good we have men like Nigel Farage that still defends our freedoms in the parliament. Good on you, Nigel!

Furthermore, I ask every European citizen here on ATS (although we all know there is no European citizens, only citizens from European countries) to go into www.x09.eu... and sign up for the lists demanding a voting for the next EU-treaty in -09. This is one of our chances to stand up against those globalist dogs!



Edit: Spelling. Stupid keyboard!

[edit on 25-3-2008 by David_Reale]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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Folks if you want to see the debate about the EU, please take a look at my thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dave posted there as well and simply refused to see my side of the argument. There isnt much use in debating against him.

The EU is the biggest threat to British sovereignty since WW2, and that is a cold hard fact.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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I concur the Lisbon EU Treaty is coming through like a freight train. The promises have already been made to the NWO elite, and there is nothing that can be done to stop it.

I can't believe they have the audacity to reprimand members of parliament. They are elected officials who represent the voice of the people!


[edit on 3/25/2008 by Choronzon]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Choronzon
I concur the Lisbon EU Treaty is coming through like a freight train. The promises have already been made to the NWO elite, and there is nothing that can be done to stop it.

I can't believe they have the audacity to reprimand members of parliament. They are elected officials who represent the voice of the people!


[edit on 3/25/2008 by Choronzon]


The people are apathetic and unilntelligent in extremis.

Seriously, the majority of this country voted in the Labour party... we get what we deserve quite frankly. By the time the tears start flowing, Blair and Brown will have already done a runner.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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The video was so unbelievable, I watched it twice. Yes, good on Nigel Farage (sp?), what an heroic speech. This is just so sad. Europeans must be devastated. My heart goes out to all of you.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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I'm afraid the problem here is we're NOT devastated. Most of us don't even realize what we're getting ourselves into. I wish we had a handful of Farage's and Bonde's in Sweden that I could actually trust with my vote. So far, no worthy candidates, though - all of them are globalist puppets.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 02:58 AM
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The EU is nothing but bad news. The Lissabon treaty will make EU into a country and every nation will loose their sovereignty.

I believe we will have something like the RFID card here too.

Here in Sweden there is a suggestion that all people will have to give their fingerprints to the police if they want a new passport. A decision has to be made by july 2009 of what sort of biometric information the government wants to use.

The Lissabon treaty will change the European countries life for ever and we the people have no saying about it, that is insane.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:22 AM
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"Let the people decide their own future, don't foist it upon them."
-Nigel Farage

Wise words.

Didn't legislature in the US sign the Patriot Act without having access to the full copy as well?

I'd love to have more information on this so-call Lisbon Treaty. If someone has more info (links etc.), I'd be much obliged.

(starred and flagged
)


[edit on 31/3/08 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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I'm a little bit torn here I don't actually think that anything in that Treaty will make a blind bit of difference to my life and it would be really interesting if we could hear what the people of member states who don't have a monarchy think about it. To me whether the ruler is in Buckingham Palace or in Brussels, I am still ruled.

Watching that video I was struck at how many empty seats there were in the Chamber. Though Nick Farage and Daniel Hannan are fine orators, they were certainly not representing my view. Farage is the leader of the UK Independence Party and Hannan is Conservative. They are both nationalists and therefore can be expected to oppose the Treaty. UKIP admit that....


Its core policy, indeed its raison d'etre, is British withdrawal from the EU. It is a policy that has struck a real chord with large sections of the electorate and seen it notching up some significant election results which have spooked the big three parties.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Both these British MEP represent constituents in the South of England, I wonder why other MEPs opinions were not asked or voiced an opinion for this film.

The other British MEP featured, Graham Watson, doesn't seem very representative of the great british electorate either. He has authored a paper, 'The Case for Global Democracy', which proposes


Graham's latest publication promotes the case for global democracy through a United Nations Parliamentary Assembly made by four Members of the European Parliament from across the political spectrum. Covering both the necessity for, and specifications of, such a project these essays are a timely contribution to the current debate on ensuring effective global governance.

www.grahamwatsonmep.org...

Though largely incomprehensible I can understand why the Treaty may be a necessity on some levels. If the turn out is always as poor as that demonstrated in the video then it must make the decision making process long winded, how often must decisions have to be postponed because they lack the quorum? This may seem petty in the grand scheme of things, but these things soon rack up costs in the 100 thousands. Isn't it better to ratify the voting process?

What is interesting is the creation of two posts, a President and the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy,


The Treaty of Lisbon will provide a stronger and more coherent external voice for the European Union by combining the functions of High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy with that of Vice-President in the Commission and creating a new External Action Service to support the new “dual role” Representative. It will also provide more practical diplomatic and consular assistance for citizens when travelling to third countries.



It creates a High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy. He or she will also become Vice-President of the Commission, and will chair the External Relations Council. This will strengthen coherence in external action and raise the EU’s profile in the world, “putting a face” on the Union.

europa.eu...

I don't understand very much of the double-speak but it seems worrying, any action against a member will result in a unified action. However, being British and therefore already a member of the most beligerent nation in Europe I can't say I'll necessarily notice any difference. Reading between the lines though, there is no change to the fact that providing military support is optional and entirely up to the member state. Nowhere does the Treaty usurp the constitutions of the member states, all it really means is that if France is attacked and declares war against its attacker then all of the European States are at war alongside France.

The best indicator of where all this is going will be who gets appointed as High Representative. The Presidency is unimportant, the term is only 2 and a half years. There seems to be no term set for the High Rep, and all the executive power is tied up in that role.


I think that there is good and bad with the Treaty, and the video though a good wake-up, is a little alarmist and has some bias. The Treaty needs to be more transparent though, the ratifications are better for the efficentcy of the voting process, but we all must ensure that we are being represented because they are making decisions that effect us. The most worrying thing in the whole treaty is not that Britain may lose sovereignty - who cares - but that some suit is going to have the power to conduct Foreign Relations and make Security decisions for all of Europe. I'm quite eager to know who that person might be. Does anyone know?



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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Read both the Constitution and the Reform Treaty, in favour of it. Understood both documents very well.

If you read the Lisbon Treaty you'll see the EU does have reduced power over members states and we are given direct democracy. The power to force the EU parliament to debate and the council loses some of its legislative power too.

The council has the power to impeach the EU Presidents and the Commission can be summoned by committee's from national parliaments across the EU.

As for Nick Farage, my MEP, he will ignore anything you write to him about and has failed to answer my questions on many occasions. My letter to him about Zimbabwe resulted in him ranting to me about the EU, which I thus replied with a blunt message telling him to "do his job" instead of sending me UKIP propaganda.

UKIP were surprised when they stopped me in Canterbury and shocked that I knew the document so well, I quoted articles and page numbers to counter their so called "claims".

The whole silly argument of the EU by eurosceptics has made me come to the conclusion to emigrate from Britain once I've finished my degree and move to a European nation that can have a mature debate of Europe. This is one of the many reasons why I do not want to live in this country anymore.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Choronzon
This is how it begins, countries lose their right to vote, and you have un-elected world elite making choices for your sovereign nation without any representatives.

America is preparing for the North American Union, which is already in the works. The legislation has already been approved and not by our congress mind you but via executive order of the president. In a sense we've already lost our right to vote.

I'm telling you people if you do not make your state representatives aware of what is going on, it will be too late.


Sorry I can't help the process from my seat. Governor Schwarzenegger's is controlling all of California's representatives and to voice opinion even to local politicians in any opposition will only add my name to a list of people to collect and re-educate or discard.

It IS too late. The powers that be learned much from the Vietnam war protests and riots and are fully prepared. If my fellow Californians were not so busy working they would notice the heavy military aircraft drills which have become almost non-stop.

Honestly- I don't know why I even take care of my valuables as they are only going to be taken from me and liquidated or used to re-decorate a fascist pigs home who doesn't deserve to enjoy so much beauty- because they don't even know what beauty is- what they value- I do not.



[edit on 31-3-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout and post by infinite
 


Thank you for your remarks KilgoreTrout and Infinite!


I am unfamiliar with British politics and hadn't heard any of these names before. I had no idea that being "nationalists" and voting constantly against the EU were Hannan's and Farage's "thing".

However, I hope you can help me with some points. Mr. Bonde (of Denmark)implies that the Treaty is written in a way that is quite difficult to understand. Infinite, you have read both documents and you find it easy to understand. In your opinion, is Bonde using this argument purely for political tactics or was the document deliberately written so few would understand its implications?

Others (Farage I believe) claim that some portions of the Treaty which they were expected to vote on were actually hidden or secret and that the Treaty could not be read in its entirety. (this is what made me especially distraught) Is this a fact?

I'd like to point out that the tactics employed by Mr. Schultz (pulling the "H-card", comparing the protesters to Hitler) and Watson (comparing the protesters to communists) were extremely low-brow IMO.


Also, infinite are your studies in constitutional law or something that would make the documents especially easy for you to understand? Do you feel it is written in a clear language?

BTW, KT, the background music was itself a sign of the video's bias. (Requiem for a Dream, Lord of the Rings)

Thanks to both of you for shinning light upon my ignorance.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Infinite, you have read both documents and you find it easy to understand. In your opinion, is Bonde using this argument purely for political tactics or was the document deliberately written so few would understand its implications?


It is very easy to understand, the language is not difficult. After reading it I studied the Act that was being presented to the British Parliament (which was a summary of the Treaty). There was nothing different between the two, the Act did not try to paint a different picture.

If a undergraduate, like myself, can understand this Treaty then there is no reason why others cannot. Eurosceptics do not want us to read these treaties ourselves because we will end up seeing the benefits and start enjoying the European Union.



Also, infinite are your studies in constitutional law or something that would make the documents especially easy for you to understand? Do you feel it is written in a clear language?


No, I do not study constitutional law, it is not apart of my degree. The language is very clear and presented so that every citizen of the European Union can understand it.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by infinite]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 06:34 AM
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KT made me aware of another thread which I feel participants and readers of this thread might be interested in:

British ratification of EU treaty- a loss of freedom
www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Folks if you want to see the debate about the EU, please take a look at my thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dave posted there as well and simply refused to see my side of the argument. There isnt much use in debating against him.

The EU is the biggest threat to British sovereignty since WW2, and that is a cold hard fact.


I agree completely. The only reason for an EU state is to have one EU rule of law and then it doesn't matter what it says on your passport because you will be controlled via an EU treaty.

The reason for the EEC was always to control politically and economically and finally militarily.

Just as 9/11 paved the way for the US to make sweeping changes to erode their people’s rights (and was a helpful mandate for UK/EU also).

I'm fearful of the plans that are no doubt afoot to create the 'incident' to enable the need for this EU military force.

I’m curious about the opinion of any UK people on here with our current state of governing in the UK?

I feel its impossible to vote for any party mainly because none offer me an end to our wasted funds on Arms (Trident to name but one!). They certainly don’t represent anything that I hold dear to me, everyone to a man that I work with would leave this country if they could. I work and live in London and I find it so depressing in all aspects of what it and the other big cities offer. The people are not respectful or caring any more and whilst I’m not English (I’m Irish but don’t feel it) I wonder what it is that an English person has to show them of their past heritage any more. They are loosing their identity to the politically correct over national identity. The government actually wishes this erosion as you are rewarded if you don’t work, don’t look after yourself in terms of health, no personal responsibility or moral ethic are evident in this same class. Its all about those that work and keep to the laws are helping to fund those that are kicking back and taking all that’s on offer including immigrants that don’t come here to work and contribute to the society/economy but merely arrive with palms open looking for their meal ticket and social security. And they can’t see that they are actually handing over their personal and national freedom as its price. You can see how I feel in this country!



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