Love, hate, what's the difference?

America, in its' conceptual sate, as we discuss it here, evokes emotion for one reason: It was an idea (yuk, sounds like something a Roman patriarch would say, no?).

Someone, somehow, either accidentally or purposefully slipped an axiom into the American makeup that rendered it uncontrollable as long as it exists as such - the inalienable right. To contend that there is absolutely no rationale that can excuse a government to impose its will on an unwilling population has stuck in the craw of every monarch, imam, dictator, and president or pope, since it became institutionalized. It is the mote in the oligarch's eye, the salt in the international banker's wound.

If anyone can get past the idea of America, you must see that like many ideas, its fragile nature lends itself to corruption and abuse by those who would make use of the common persons pride in the idea, to further their own self-aggrandizement or their own agenda.

If you step back and think about it, the entire 'nation' concept is suspect. Did you think, or can you contend, that ANY country/state is exactly what it's people believe it to be? I confidently state, probably not.

I grew up believing America to be so much more than it is today. I see struggles to diminish the concept of freedom and self-determination every day. And all you in other nations are not immune from the trend. There's no point in hating something that doesn't exist, and in the end, the America that I loved, the one where my rights are equal to the rights of ANY other, is gone. You might as well hate the tooth fairy.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by Maxmars]

First off, the fact that your leader is a recovering alcoholic doesn`t seem to give the credibility to justify all his actions.
Next off, the fact that everyone in America HAS to be a patriot, or else they are terrorists.
Seems to me like "your right of free speech" is is alot of BS.

America is seemingly the world police, and who gave you the right?

Many of my friends have been injured, and even killed in international operations, as a follow-up of the invasion of Iraq, and Afghanistan.

They`re supposed to be on peace-keeping missions, only to get killed in the wars, provoced by The Bush jr/senior adm.


Edit: Censor circumvention.




[edit on 25-3-2008 by intrepid]

Well I don't hate America. I'm British and to be honest I look up to the USA as my big brother. I know how the Yanks saved my country in the past and the debt I owe you. I know I'd be speaking German by now and if not then Russian for sure. Then again I'd probably have been sent to Auschwitz and cremated. Thankyou USA I owe you my life. Most Brits I know feel the way I do. The others like the Europeans are just plain jealous of the incredible experiment called the USA. Just imagine the US going into total isolationism. What would old Europe do with nobody to defend them from the Russians and Iranian menace? Lol I'd love to see it happen.

People don't hate Americans they hate injustice! Open your eyes to the lies, we are being decieved.

I've been to the States numerous times. Great people. Always had a good time. That being said, the Administration sucks.

America haters have sold thier souls, to stay in fasion! I don't hate you America haters, I pitty you. Why? Well you were sold a lie, you bought the propaganda that you were just helping the poor, but instead you've been recruited by the very people you seek to punish, it doesn't seem to bother you that the biggest leftists in America are also the richest, least moral.

What do YOU mean by "America" wich you hate so much anyway?

When I say America I'm talking about the people 1st of all, you know family, friends, neighbors, soldiers, veterans, community voluteers, people who make this country great! When you leftist America haters talk about America you don't make any such distinctions, and at this point I wouldn't believe it if you did! You use every little headline to bash people who love our country, our liberty, our ideals. Why? What has this nation of people done to YOU? Don't you love the people around you, aren't THEY worth restaining yourself a little bit for?

What does the US flag represent? Does it represent a government of crooks and liers, or does it represent "WE the poeple"!?

All the America haters had to come in to say stuff like "I love my country but I hate my government" and while I agree that is even the tone of the constitution, wich was made to restrict government and not us, you liberal America hateing pukes NEVER make that distinction.

Go ahead just read the "US warship 'opens fire in Suez' Breaking News" thread, ALL the America haters are so fast to say our troops are murders, as if they are bush by proxy! Its sick, your calling the brave men and women who are willing to sacrifice thier lives for your freedom.... MURDERERS! You cloak yourself in the 1st amandment provided at great cost to you by our troops and then scream MURDERERS at them!

Ya SOO patriotic! Your such great friends of freedom!

All of you "911 was an inside job" people come here to defend your ethics, but there is none! Maybe you'd have a case if you went about screaming "911 was done by bush and a currupt government" but you don't have THAT in your signatures do you?

When you have served a tour of duty in the armed services, THEN you can talk smack about our government, and I bet you'd make the distinction between 'we the people' and 'they the politicians' THEN wouldn't you?

I think I know why its being done.

Most America haters are hardcore leftists, liberals, socialists, communists, and the base ideals of those political philosifies are that people are too dumb to take care of them selves, so the government has to do it. Well aren't the leftists PART of those people they are saying are dumb? The mantality of the left is self loathing anyway to start with, so of course they hate America, because they are part of it, part of what the hate.

Sure you "democrats" with a tiny bit of history under your belt will say "but what about Hamilton?, he was a patriotic democrat" but even HE would call the modern liberal democrats TRAITORS, not for speaking out against the government at home, or pushing for more federal government, or for thinking welfair is helpfull to the poor, those are things he would agree with you about. No, he would call you liberals traitors for bashing our way of life abroad, for calling our troops murders, for trying to over ride the constitution to hold back the rich instead of uplifting the poor, for trying to disarm the malitias (the people), I think he'd try and change the party name back to federalists!

Tyrrany is the 'at rest' state of government, so its easy, the lazy and ignorant naturaly gravitate towards it, its freedom that takes effort, that must be maintained, that is WORTH doing! Freedom doesn't mean hateing our own people either, I truely don't 'hate' you liberals, I pitty you for the darkness in your hearts you can't overcome, wich is going to consume your souls. Turn back towards the light of freedom now before its too late for us all!

Besides from personal experience? (which taints all who follow)

The person who brought over the Iraqi defectors was on NBC News just the other week (something about entering politics again). Except, now they learned that it was the Iraqi defectors who lied about Saddam having WMD and how Bush still decided that the info was correct or really (how it does not make any difference) because somehow it is wrong and how bull-headed some people can be.

The fact that there still are big liars who only think of their own money and how they try and still sell it in this Country (mainly to me - some older type people once called babyboomers) and call it religion?

The fact that they state that they are only interested in your own personal well-being, which is like stating that if you believe the Devil is from Heaven you have it made?

Well, America may be America but only if you included Mexico and Canada, I thought this Country was called the USA?

Communications slang terms are thrown around in this Country all the time, and I am supposed to read minds? I did once upon a time, and worked out in -56 degree wind chill factor weather. It is only -70 degrees wind-chill factor in Antartica, and still all the stories that come around with supposed space aliens and UFO's and money and the market place?

Well, it seems there is a lack of ethics pawned off as being religious in this Country, because somewhere along the way, some reward and punishment system was put into place by some people who still confer to treat this Country that way. I wonder now who is really crazy in this Country and world, but alone that will not make the world a better place to live in.

The rest will probably go to Hell!

That is why I guess a computer program can make better diagnosises in some brain diseases than doctors can in an experiment just ran recently.

I wonder how far this world goes with all the mistakes of being human?

There is a real concern on how some people actually do think in this Country and world, and so far it seems that they are heading down the wrong path to enlightenment while stating the opposite.

Now, I do read minds sometimes because of all of this, and as far as I can see, there still is no reason to read some people's minds at all.

90%

Even though I don't always agree with what our leaders do; I can't think of anywhere else on this planet I'd rather live.

Perhaps the people you are talking about are the still in or just out of puberty crowd who historically, generation after generation, hate their community's because that is what kids between the age of twelve and their mid-20's always do? I don't think you will find that many adults who hate the people of any free country. In my time, at that age, I hated the US and was part of the don't trust anyone over 30 crowd. Then I grew up and so did most everyone else. A few never do grow up and we see them in line at the Rescue Missions, living with their Parents into their 30's and 40's, dealing drugs and living under overpasses. It is an odd fact that these are the same ones who participated in the protests and criminal activities when I was young; or is it

Hate only happens after intelligence shuts down. Hate is destructive, never solves any problem and never will and is the true cause of all Human suffering with jealousy being near the top of the list. If I hated the United States I would not give a damn about it. You have to love something to care about it.

I think your math is off a bit. I think it is more like 10% hate.

To those of you who said we love the American people, but we hate their goverment. Don't you know who is the American goverment really is. It is the American people themself. Even though it doesn't seem like it. It is the people who write to congress, and ask them to do something with this problem we have.

But the great thing about Americans. They can change their goverment.

To those of you who had been expel from American because your parent were illegal. That is wrong, they should have let you stay here. If someone ancestor was from another solar system. Would they kick that person off the Earth. Because their ancestor wasn't born on earth.

To the OP. I know you are reading all the posts on this tread. It is wrong for you to tell someone, because that they hate American they should move out of the country. You have the right to ask them why. But you don't have the right to tell them to get out.

Originally posted by charliegrs
correct me if im wrong, but didnt the people who questioned the government in nazi germany get the label of "traitors" and "germany haters" or something like that?

Here's the quote from old Happy Hermann himself:“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country".The Op is doing the same it seems to me.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by mike dangerously]

I sorta agree to this thread because much of the world either hates or simply dislikes the U.S or the Americans with in the U.S. But if i may say it is for very stupid reasons if you ask me...example, when Rome got threatened they went to war and took over 3 Empires but no one hated them...in fact many people joined them. My point is the U.S takes up for its self and its allies but when its taking arms for its self people tend to question the reason. The United States government is corrupt but every government is so you can't use that as a reason to dislike the U.S because 1. the citizens arnt the government so if you dislike the U.S because of that reason there then dislike the U.S government not the U.S in whole and 2. every government is corrupt in some form. I believe many people are used to their nations government taking in threats...ect, then when they see us "the U.S" strike back no matter what the reason is they tend to again question it. But i also think many people are stuck in the peace reality so to speak and the truth is you can't make peace in today's world..that chance is long gone and even if you say its because of the U.S well your simply wrong because there will always be people out there to cause some sort of unrest it being a nation or a group of people. Instead of disliking a nation for the way they handle things pay attention to your own problems or if your out of the country pay attention to your own nation because sitting there and causing so much hatred is somewhat the same to the causes of war. For short, your not helping at all and your really not doing anything to try and fix things.

basically this is what i think
"i love the country i live in, but hate the people in charge" i dont know who said that but its how i feel

but i do get annoyed with some of my fellow americans. The materialistic douche bags who drive suvs as if they are the only vehicle on the road. the ones who dont bother to keep up on current events but do care about what britney spears is up to.

its not a bad thing to question your government. at this point i am not surprised by what they do these days.