Where Do the Freemasons Stand?

I found this thread (www.abovetopsecret.com...) very interesting and rather than derail it, I thought I would start a new thread where I could pose some questions to the Masonic membership of ATS to see what their stance is on various con related theories.

The questions will not cover every conspiracy, but I think they'll provide a broad overview of different topics.

If possible, it would be nice to see replies that give reasons for belief or disbelief concerning these questions.

Who knows, we may find we have more in common than we think... or not.

Here we go:

1. Do you believe Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole assassin of JFK?

2. Do you believe the CIA funds covert ops with drug money?

3. Do you believe the moon landing was faked?

4. Do you believe Pope John Paul I was assassinated?

5. Do you believe James Earl Ray was the sole assassin of Martin Luther King?

6. Do you believe in Chemtrails?

7. Do you believe fluoride in our water robs us of our precious bodily fluids?

8. Do you believe that an ancient civilisation once existed on Mars?

9. Do you believe that a one world government will eventuate?

10. Do you support the idea of a one world government?

11. Do you believe Masonic Lodges can be infiltrated for nefarious ends?

12. Do you believe Princess Diana's death was an accident?

13. Do you believe in shape-shifing reptilian overlords from the planet Nibiru?

14. Do you believe that the United States Government is waging a slow war of ethnic cleansing against its African/American population?

15. Do you believe Jim Jones' cult was an MK-ULTRA operation gone awry?

16. Do you believe the war in the Gulf is about oil or "Terrorism?"

17. Do you believe AIDS is a man-made bio-warfare agent?

18. Do you believe Sirhan Sirhan was a mind-controlled assassin?

19. Do you believe George W. Bush gained office through vote fraud?

20. Do you believe the "Divine Right of Kings" extends into our age and only people of certain bloodlines gain positions of power?


I thank you for your time.


[edit on 25/3/2008 by Beelzebubba]

reply to post by Beelzebubba

---

I believe it was a combination of pissed off people.. mostly the CIA and his own Cheifs of Staff.. JFK was not a "good" president in that he was weak and let the CIA run the show.. they failed and he got blamed.. instead of taking the blame he blamed the CIA and then stood up to the military and the CIA just to die a short while later..

Or it could have been the criminal past and dealings with the mafia which is now well known.



I don't believe all the drug money in the US for an entire year could fund the black ops for a week. I believe the CIA is involved in the drug running, and I believe important people profit and exploit it.. but its more along the lines of gun running.. its just convenient for those you deliver the goods to, to use them on themselves...



Absolutely.. a desperate attempt to beat the commies at something we where loosing.. great for moral.



Yes.



No.. this again was probably done by a group hopeing that the violence incited by the assassination would lead to tougher laws against blacks, not have the opposite effect. As to whether this was done by the government, I highly doubt it..



Absolutely not. It makes no sense. Why contaminate all your people for no reason? Let alone the impossibility to cover such a massive area to do any significant damage. There have been stories that small metallic particles have been released into the atmosphere to jam radar and for use with missile defense.. who knows what Tech the Gov has.. but with Chemtrails it seems people take pics of Contrails and claim they are Chemtrails without proof..



Weakens your bones, and imo, your teeth.. though its supposedly better for you, I grew up on well water and never had a problem, cannot stand the chemical taste of city water where I live now.



No.



No. That would be impossible.. and I could write 20,000 chars. explaining why so I will leave it at that.



Absolutely not. Id sooner die.



Yes. Though I believe at that point it becomes unMasonic and does not represent the Craft and is thus not Masonic at all.. it would be like a new group taking over the building. But it is possible.



She was assassinated.



No.



No.



No.



Its about securing resources vital to national security in a hostile region of the world to our policies.



I believe it was an agent that was developed by the US government to begin slowly cutting down the world population by means of slowly executing the poorest, and most unethically clean of the population. Sort of cutting a tumor from the body that is the society, the worst of the worst where supposed to contract the disease in the largest numbers.. however I believe their plan failed because it takes to long for people to die from aids. Yet not to fast, otherwise it would appear to be an Pandemic.



No.



No. While the democratic process is fraudulent all together, if there was evidence of voter fraud Kerry would not have withdrawn. Maybe it was a coordinated effort. Who knows. The idea that because more people voted for Kerry then Bush is a bad point, as the people are not allowed to elect the President, only the States may do such a thing.



Regalship should not, imo be passed through bloodlines but rather through a permanent council that represents the society as a whole, though not elected .. philosophical in nature.. imo, absolute power is absolute corruption, but absolute corruption means there is no further means for further corruption.. you are then left to determine what leader you will be for the sake of your people.. bad kings die. Its simple as that, you can never suppress peoples lives, but good monarchs who are true to their people can wield them as a weapon against anyone who contradicts their way of life. People of certain bloodlines makes no difference, as its not your blood that makes you who you are..

The greatest leaders in the world often come from the bottom rungs of society. People are born great, from any position in society, often the daunting prospect of working against the entire system is the only way to ensure that the greatest of the great get to the top.

Many ancient societies chose their kings from amongst the entire society, only the greatest could be crowned King, but rarely from father to son or daughter.. we take out notion of what a King is from Roman rule and the following domination of post-roman societies like France and England.

I believe eventually all forms of government will end in some form of dictatorship.. dictatorships tend to be oppressive because the powers that be do not tend to co-exist with the society the govern.. if that makes sense.

Anyways, hope that answers your questions well enough.. don't expect all Masons to answer the same though.

My answers to your questions:
1. No
2. Maybe
3. No
4. Yes
5. No
6. No
7. Maybe
8. Yes
9. Yes
10. No
11. Yes
12. No
13. No
14. No, but possible
15. Yes
16. Both
17. Possible
18. Yes
19. Not Sure
20. No
This is what I think, anyway.

reply to post by Beelzebubba

---

And my take:
1. no
2. yes
3. no
4. I'm too unfamiliar with the specifics to have an opinion
5. yes
6. I'm too unfamiliar with the specifics to have an opinion
7. no, but I enjoy Dr. Strangelove nonetheless
8. no
9. no
10. no
11. yes, but that wouldn't give the perpetrators any power.
12. yes
13. no
14. no
15. no
16. oil
17. no
18. no
19. combination of vote fraud and SCOTUS in his daddy's pocket
20. no

Yes.



Yes, at least in the past.



No.



Don't know.



Possibly with help from fellow KKK members.



No.



No.



Possibly.



Eventually, yes. But no time soon.



Only when humanity has evolved to a point where it recognizes its own responsibilities, and wars, famine, capitalism, etc. have become obsolete.



Yes. P2 Lodge is an example.



Yes.



No. They're from the planet Ooomga.



No. The US Government itself is comprised of African-Americans, and it is likely that the next President will be African-American.



No.



Neither. I believe it was a diversion to make people forget that Bin Laden was still running around freely.



Possibly.



No.



No, I believe it was through Supreme Court favoritism.



No, "Divine Right of Kings" was a vestige of the dark ages, and is opposed to Enlightenment principles. However, Plato once pointed out a fallacy in democracy as well, i.e., that the average voter is a moron, and will therefore elect a fellow moron.

On the square.

Don't tell that to Brother Buzz Aldrin. The last guy who told Buzz that the moon landing was faked got his clock cleaned!

1. Do you believe Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole assassin of JFK?

No.

2. Do you believe the CIA funds covert ops with drug money?

Yes.

3. Do you believe the moon landing was faked?

No.

4. Do you believe Pope John Paul I was assassinated?

Yes.

5. Do you believe James Earl Ray was the sole assassin of Martin Luther King?

Dont know.

6. Do you believe in Chemtrails?

Dont know.

7. Do you believe fluoride in our water robs us of our precious bodily fluids?

Dont know.

8. Do you believe that an ancient civilisation once existed on Mars?

Yes.

9. Do you believe that a one world government will eventuate?


Yes.

10. Do you support the idea of a one world government?

Yes.

11. Do you believe Masonic Lodges can be infiltrated for nefarious ends?

Yes.

12. Do you believe Princess Diana's death was an accident?

Dont know.

13. Do you believe in shape-shifing reptilian overlords from the planet Nibiru?

No.

14. Do you believe that the United States Government is waging a slow war of ethnic cleansing against its African/American population?

No.

15. Do you believe Jim Jones' cult was an MK-ULTRA operation gone awry?

Maybe.

16. Do you believe the war in the Gulf is about oil or "Terrorism?"

Neither nor.

17. Do you believe AIDS is a man-made bio-warfare agent?

Dont know.

18. Do you believe Sirhan Sirhan was a mind-controlled assassin?

Yes.

19. Do you believe George W. Bush gained office through vote fraud?

Dont know for sure.

20. Do you believe the "Divine Right of Kings" extends into our age and only people of certain bloodlines gain positions of power?

No.


Please note and understand that freemasons dont have a consensus about what the world is like. Thats a part of what freemasonry is about: Welcoming people of all nations and views. Its called Tolerance.

But should you need it, I can backup each of my yes/no answers with reasons.



[edit on 25-3-2008 by Skyfloating]

I think there are too many variables that are unaccounted for. My personal opinion? JFK made enemies by speaking truth to power and it cost him his life. Maybe Oswald was the only gunman (not stating as fact), but there were almost certainly people pulling his strings.

The "secrecy is repugnant" speech (in no way do I think that was aimed at Freemasonry -- rather the power brokers and central bankers, et al) probably went a long way towards his death. He called them out, point blank. The actual assassination? I don't know for sure. Certainly there were people besides Oswald that wanted him dead.



It's highly possible, if not probable. I don't trust them.



I suppose it is possible, but no.



Again, the jury is out. I don't have enough facts to say one way or the other for sure. I lean toward yes, though, given his "radical" positions; he was fighting the system, and sadly, those who fight the system often end up dead.



I'm rather ashamed to admit that I've never really looked into it. I don't know.



Again, possible. I haven't done much research in that area, to be honest.



Haha! I love Dr. Strangelove!

I think fluoride in the water is bad, mmmmkay?

I don't know about "precious bodily fluids," but it's certainly not good for us, for a myriad of reasons.



I won't rule out the possibility, but I think it is a miniscule one.



I think probably so. Not in our lifetimes, but probably someday.



I agree with Rock; I'd rather die fighting.



Absolutely. This has been demonstrated. Further, it's easy enough for someone to pretend to be a Mason, if he's trying to get over on non-Masons. It's much harder to fool us, naturally.

In the end though, it's entirely possible.



I don't know. It certainly seems fishy.



Believe in them?! I'm their LEADER!!! BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

No, just kidding. The whole thing is bollocks.



No.



I don't know a lot about MK-ULTRA so I can't say. There have always been crazy people that can get other people to do stupid things though. Take the Hale Bopp guys for instance, and the Branch Davidians...

What do you think about it?



Oil. Oil and money.

My honest feelings about it? It's a ploy to keep the government spending, the banks lending (to the government), and the big contractors raking it in (along with the bankers). It's been going on for decades.

The end result is that the banks own our asses and we're perpetually in debt... ergo, virtual slaves.



I won't say 100% either way, but there is a damn strong possibility.



I think it's possible, but not probable. The bigger question is: why all the hush-hush from the government until '88? I think Bobby was in the same boat as Jack; i.e. they pissed off the wrong people.



Ummmm... yeah. I don't know that 100% for sure, but when you consider that Jeb got his buddy to work with a software developer to create a program to manipulate the vote (testified to) along with the Florida debacle, along with the plethora of inconsistencies in our voting process (as we can see today -- thank you Diebold)... I think it was hacked. Especially when you look at what had happened running up to and during his first term... it's hard not to think so.



I think it was made up in the first place. The only Divine Right we have is Free Will, IMHO.



No problem. I'm interested in your answers to the above questions as well.

See you around.

You see, one good example of non-consesus is that the others say "No" to a one-world-government, and I say YES.

Why?

Look at ATS: Many Forums, ONE ATS. Many unique Opinions, one ATS. Full diversity and individual integrity...but ONE ATS.
Its simple and it works. Thats why the world will naturally move toward it.

I loved dystopian sci-fi and nwo-paranoia as a kid too...but its a load of nonsense.

1. no
2. It use to
3. no
4. yes
5. If he did it by himself, he sure made one hell of a difficult shot.
6. no
7. no
8. possibly
9. in time
10. I have mixed feelings about it.
11. The have been in the past
12. yes, in as much as drunk driving is an accident
13. no
14. no
15. no
16. no, its about survival
17. no
18. no, was he nuts yes
19. He's not that smart
20. I don't believe there was ever the Divine Right.

To the OP.

How do or would you know the answers to your questions are from Freemasons ??

Your ballot boxes are way open to abuse don't you think !!!


Wolfie

There are not that many Masons on ATS, most are known well enough to any one who visits the forum ..

Besides, whether or not they are Masons makes no differences, if you have not noticed, we don't agree on much outside of Masonry lol.

reply to post by Wolfie_UK

---

Because he's been around a while, and is astute enough to know who is a Mason here and who is not (more or less).

A query or two for you: Why would someone pretend to be a Mason just to answer these questions? What would that accomplish?

Seems kind of silly to me.

Same as someone who would post that they have just seen a UFO or have info on 911 or know why the Earth is round, anyone can register and anyone can reply to a thread.

Like I said, the OP's post is open to abuse from those who want to play silly games,.

A question for you: Do you know every freemason in the world who could reply to this thread ????


Wolfie

True, but those who masquerade as Masons for the sake of "silly games" are quite identifiable. Their words betray them every time.

And I still can't see to what end the ruse would be perpetrated.



Of course not. I'm sure there are plenty of ATS members who are Masons who have never stated it here, let alone the world. There's no way to know that.

I would assume, however, given that Beelzebubba frequents this particular forum and is therefore surely aware of its participants, the 20 questions (coincidence? ) were targeted at those here who he knows to be Masons.

At least, that would make sense to me. I do not and can not speak for him.

[edit on 3/25/08 by The Axeman]

Sure its open to abuse and silly games. Everything on the semi-anonymous virtual internet is.

Im asking myself other questions here. Like: "What does the OP hope to find out from this"

1. Do you believe Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole assassin of JFK?
Probably not, that kind of thing is hard to pull off on your own.


2. Do you believe the CIA funds covert ops with drug money?
Probably, a self perpetuating war on drugs keeps everyone employed.

3. Do you believe the moon landing was faked?
No.

4. Do you believe Pope John Paul I was assassinated?
Yes

5. Do you believe James Earl Ray was the sole assassin of Martin Luther King?
Once again, no, many people with an agenda wanted him dead.

6. Do you believe in Chemtrails?
No.

7. Do you believe fluoride in our water robs us of our precious bodily fluids?
Absolutely, 100%. I abhor the taste of tap water, you can taste chemicals in it, and I only drink filtered or bottled water.

8. Do you believe that an ancient civilisation once existed on Mars?
Not really, it's possible I guess.

9. Do you believe that a one world government will eventuate?
Provided we don't kill ourselves in a nuclear holocaust, but probably not in my lifetime and I'm only 23.

10. Do you support the idea of a one world government?
Yes, if it's fair and just, if it's fascistic in nature, no. I like the idea of Plato's Republic.

11. Do you believe Masonic Lodges can be infiltrated for nefarious ends?
Yes, but I don't see the point, surely there are better things to infiltrate.

12. Do you believe Princess Diana's death was an accident?
Not sure.

13. Do you believe in shape-shifing reptilian overlords from the planet Nibiru?
No.

14. Do you believe that the United States Government is waging a slow war of ethnic cleansing against its African/American population?
No.

15. Do you believe Jim Jones' cult was an MK-ULTRA operation gone awry?
No.

16. Do you believe the war in the Gulf is about oil or "Terrorism?"
Yes and no, I also believe it's setting the US up against China in the long run.

17. Do you believe AIDS is a man-made bio-warfare agent?
It's possible, however, it's also indicative of the problems that arise when morality slides in society.

18. Do you believe Sirhan Sirhan was a mind-controlled assassin?
No.

19. Do you believe George W. Bush gained office through vote fraud?
I wouldn't put it past the neo-con agenda. I cerainly wish Al Gore had won.

20. Do you believe the "Divine Right of Kings" extends into our age and only people of certain bloodlines gain positions of power?
I don't believe in it in the first place, but it makes sense that people want to pass on their power/influence/wealth to their children.

Sorry to continue on my thread about "nonsical" replies to the OP's questions asked, my only reason for saying this thread is open to abuse is that so many good threads are started and then just get flooded out with rubbish replies.

I for one have no real interest in the Masons but do have a keen yet growing older by the day hunger for knowledge of whom and what I share this world with.

Thank you to all who have replied to my questions, I will say the answers you have posted to the OP's questions are interesting, I wish if not in this thread but in a new thread some of you could expand on certain answers.

Regards
Wolfie

Thank you all for your time in replying to this thread.
This is an idea that I'd had for quite some time. When I read Fitzgibbons reply to the thread I mentioned in my first post, it spurred me to actually do it. I guess I wanted to see if Freemasons are susceptible to their own personal quirks, doubts, and maybe a little conspiracy chasing.

Having read nearly every anti-Masonic piece of literature (I'm sure some would dispute that description) available, from Nesta Webster to Martin Short. I know that a lot of anti-Masons believe that certain ideals are implanted into every Freemasion. The one world government issue for one. Then there are the others, and I'm sure the Masons here have heard them all. It would seem that a number of the conspiracies that are laid at the feet of the Freemasons are also feared by those that are supposedly perpetrating them.

I was, in fact, hoping that someone would fake being a Mason and reply to the thread because they would give answers that are indicative of how anti-Masons perceive Freemasons.

What I had hoped to gain by this? Well, after the recent brouhaha (I think we all know of what I speak). I thought it would be a good exercise in showing something of the personalities of our Masonic members. In a manner that many in this forum could relate to. Rather than being here to defend their "Craft," I wanted to see what we all actually had in common instead of the one thing that divided us. My first thought was to start a thread where the Masons could list some of their favourite book, film, and musical tastes. But it would have been relegated to BTS and not been seen in this forum.

You Mason's may have known that your answers would run the gamut. But I think the answers in this thread would surprise a few anti's.

In answer to your question Wolfie_UK, I know who a few of the Masons on this board are. and my questions were really only directed at them. I would have liked a few of the others to respond, but I think those that did were sufficient in getting the point across.

Here are my answers (I'm glad I'm not the only one who fears fluoride!):



No. As has been stated by others in this thread: "He pissed off the wrong people." The war machine in Vietnam had to keep rolling.
As a personal obsevation, as a hunter, I have never seen a shot that has made the target jerk back into the bullet. That head shot came from the front, without a doubt.



Yes. I believe they were doing it to fund the Contras, and as I have mentioned in another thread they are doing it to this day, by ensuring that Afghani smack is making its way to American shores.



No.



Yes. Either by parties within the Vatican, or by Gelli and his crew.



No. This was the type of Black Man the "Powers that Be" did not want to see gain popularity.



No.



I don't trust it. I grew up drinking rain-water and had never needed a filling.



Highly possible.



No.



No. I'm something of a traditionalist.



Yes.



Yes.



No.



Yes. I see I'm about the only one that answered in the positive to this. I know that there are quite a few African/Americans in positions within the government. I also believe a large percentage of these people are self-loathers and "Uncle Toms." The high percentage of gun shops and liquor stores in predominantly black neighbourhoods as well as the proliferation of drugs in said neighbourhoods is highly suspicious. I think it all ties in with the "War on Drugs." Look at the percentage of non-violent drug offenders doing time and see what percentage of them is black.



Yes.



I phrased this question badly. There are so many factors to be contemplated, but I think it is mainly about securing a nation for its oil resources. Iraq was a country the US Government could invade without raising the ire of the Saudi Nations.



Yes.



Yes.



This question was aimed at Bush's first run at the presidency. I believe certain voters in Florida were denied the democratic process.



No.



[edit on 27/3/2008 by Beelzebubba]