The Greatest Conspiracy Ever Perpetrated: My Interpretation.

reply to post by mojo4sale

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I humbly bow by star and flag to the sheer eloquence and effort you have so brilliantly and generously shared with us.

Your last sentence about have "flaws" instantly brought back a memory of a scene from the very beginning of Mel Brook's "History Of The World" where the prehistoric man had drawn the first picture on a cave wall and was introduced as the first artist in the world- then immediately a fat slovenly Neanderthal stood up and pissed on his picture and the dialog (paraphrased) "The first artist also inspired the first critic".

My point: Do not worry about the flaws as some jerk will come along shortly and point them out- they piss on everything!

Your presentation of an idea is one of the best on ATS that I have ever read. I can be a ferocious critic so be comforted in knowing that I give you humble praise. Now please go write something else as I am excited to see your next pages!



I even bookmarked this page so I can pass it along to people. I hope you don't mind?

PS- As far as the other religions- yes they all followed a similar path. Clearly religion is not the answer for anyone. This will become clearer even for the most devout very soon!

[edit on 25-3-2008 by dk3000]

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

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No smoke without fire, eh?

Well, think about this: floods are a pretty widespread natural occurence. Catastrophic floods are remembered; in my country, a tsunami that occurred a thousand years ago is one of a handful events documented in the ancient chronicles that are neither religious nor political in character. Any number of cultures can have flood myths; they need not all be talking about the same flood.

More to the point, myths don't have to originate in fact. Many of them obviously do not; think about Ovid's Metamorphoses. Actaeon turned into a stag by Artemis; Io turned into a cow by Hera; Zeus turning himself into a shower of gold to impregnate Danaë. You're not saying these things really happened, are you?

You might say they were metaphors, and in fact that is one popular explanation of myths. The Swiss psychologist Carl Jung and his followers took this interpretation very far indeed, showing how myths might originate among something he called the archetypes of the collective unconscious, which might be described in more modern terms as the reflection or image in our conscious 'minds' of our unconscious instincts at work. You might find this a bit far-fetched. All the same, you can't use the metaphor argument unless you accept that the Flood itself is likely a metaphor -- possibly a metaphor for the gush of silver coins into the temple offertory-box.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by Astyanax]

The philosopher Spinoza was of a mind with mojo4sale. I just posted this in another atheist-bashing thread:

Good for you mate. I'm not trying to change your or anyone elses belief's, this is my interpretation of how i believe mankind has been conned for over 2000 years.
Nice on topic post and circumvention of the censors, you should be proud of your valuable input to the discussion.



Yes many cultures have flood myths. Why. Because there have been many floods all over the world at different times throughout history. The biblical floods are based on the tales of flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers imo during or before the Sumerian era or more likely the Ubaidian era.
During the glacial ice melt many lake and river systems would have flooded, this would have been a big deal to the people living in those area's at the time and so they told story's about it while they sat around the camp fires and passed it on by word of mouth to their descendants.



Sure lots of revolutions, changes of government, senseless wars and killing and through it all the church survived and prospered. Why is that? Because they were lucky or because they were pulling the strings.



My fault mims, i wasn't quite sure which forum it fitted, it was a toss up in the end, if a mod feels it would be better suited to another forum i have no problem with it being moved.



Thanks helios, i'll be sure to keep my eye's peeled for retribution from above, should i start holding my breath.

Ahhh the fire and brimstone, did you read the Underworld link.

Thanks for all the replies, i did expect to be attacked but you've all been so nice so far.
Like i said i'm not here to change anyones beliefs, it's My Interpretation of how i believe religion has duped mankind. I'm not asking you to believe me. But does my little tale make less sense than the tales we have been fed for millenia.

Imagine playing chinese whispers with thousands of people over the course of thousands of years until it reaches one guy who thinks to himself, i think i'm going to change this around, i can see an opportunity here.

mojo


Mod Edit: removed previous censor circumvention.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by GAOTU789]

Very well researched and thought out thread. Star and Flagged. Theology is one of my favorite subjects, as well as world history so this thread was a pleasure to read since I share your opinion on this matter. I don't post much nowadays since I mostly just lurk around. But your thread compelled me to post.

Take care and keep at it. I think you're on the right track....

reply to post by heliosprime

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Actually none of us will need this fire from the sky. The OP made a brilliant presentation for us all to read and yes much of it was taken from other sources and information which has been studied and verified with much evidence. The OP has merely pointed out that a very lame story has been repeated over and over and currently Christianity has given itself the right to re-write and re-present it as original authorship.

My take on this is, the massive event which (assuming) you are referring to as a rapture from which fire will pour down from the sky- is in all reality- nothing but a warning that your "authors" do not invite criticism by making it punishable by death.

This massive event that is coming is an awareness which will reveal- and hopefully to you as well, that the fire in the sky is nothing more than men figuring out how to throw matches from heaven to claim it is coming from God. Many fires get started this way and spin out of control and burn up lots of innocent people.

Are you prepared for the "rapture" to be revealed as a big hoax?

There are three fingers pointing back at everyone of us- and we will all be put in our place very soon. The consequences of perpetrating hoaxes have devastating consequences for everyone including the creators of it regardless of intent.

The truth is, we have reached a place of deception and corruption in which the inevitable next step is facing the truth or dying from deception. This has nothing to do with God and I am sure that God is hoping we will figure this out because regardless of our flaws, God likes having us around. But it is man's choice.

This world is what we make of it- and this is what we have made of it. We are not happy- its not working- so lets all make something ELSE.

I see the same deck of cards being reshuffled and handed to a new dealer. Always, the same deck of cards, reshuffled and dealt again.

You would think someone could at least come up with another deck of cards. After time, the same game grows weary.

And I must grudgingly admit that I am agreeing more and more with your statement made here. There are many smaller churches and such that truly do their best to help others but it is, as I am finding out more and more, based on one big lie after another.

Who is responsible for many of the bloodiest centuries in what is left of our recorded history? I am ashamed to admit that it is the Christians.

Loved that movie.
I don't have an issue at all with constructive criticism, it is an invaluable tool for emotional growth and the advancement of knowledge for those that can bear the sting to the ego. I think i can handle it, but i understand where your coming from, criticism used to denigrate and ridicule is a tool of the weak and ignorant.
Thanks for your encouragement. and by all means pass along whatever you like.

reply to post by Astyanax

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As usual your much more eloquent and knowledgeable than i, thanks for the added links and insight.

reply to post by Ocelot

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Thanks man.



Why do you think so many are reaching the same conclusion and why should it matter to you that they do?
Perhaps instead of playing Old Maid you should try playing Poker?



So my theory is completely unoriginal and without merit, possibly. Am i making it up as i go along, possibly. Do i have an agenda for self agrandizement, possibly. Have i stolen idea's and copied previously thought out idea's, also possible.
Ringing any bells.

What don't you agree with, break it down for me.

Cheers mojo.

I just lost a lot of info I had been writing!!!
The climate of Mesopotamia during the last ice age was actually fairly temperate;




to be continued!



[edit on 25-3-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies

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I bet it wasn't fairly temperate in the mountain ranges of Anatolia from where my tribe may have migrated from, beneath the majestic Mt Ararat and Little Ararat.
Btw i didn't suggest that Mesopotamia was devoid of human presence at the time but i will get to that.
I'm at work at the moment, i will clarify my point as soon as possible.

Thanks mojo.

I guess, since Christianity wasn't around until Jesus, the conspiracy was carried out by time travelers?



See my post above. It was the only thing not deleted.
Why would they 'come down' from the mountain in that fashion?
Maybe, because, The ark came to rest on Mt. Ararat.

From where we get so many world-wide cultural similarities. see chart, please;

(from Byron C. Nelson, The Deluge Story in Stone (Augsburg, Minneapolis, 1931), Appendix II, Flood Traditions, Figure 38)



YES.





Abel sacrificed the right way to God and Cain didn't.





The Tower of Babel, a mud brick building, which so Many thought was fiction was found and partially restored.
Temples and Ziggurats
The White Temple Ziggurat.


These monuments were a Bulwark in case of ANOTHER flood.
The Tower of Babel being built by Nimrod.
Who was Nimrod

To be continued....




[edit on 25-3-2008 by Clearskies]

holy walls of text batman.....




Keeper

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by GAOTU789]

Yes, your theory not only makes sense but is probable. Christianity probably was used in the furtherance of power. Anyone who looks at the history of the Papal empires will know that.

However my friend, you theory stumbles in light of the modern interpretations of the bible.

Ever since Martin Luther founded the protestant movement, the bible's OT has been seen as a symbolic series of books. No intelligent christian will believe in the world being created in 7 days, Eve eating the fruit of sin etc... These are all now taken as symbolic acts and descriptions.
The simple theory is that these events were symbolised so that the common uneducated peasant could understand them. Much like the high teachings of Jesus found in parables.

So you see, even if the original use of the bible was by miscreants to further their own power, christianity has evolved into a religion which promotes peace, love, charity and good behaviour.

I dont care if its origings are shaky, its positive effect is visible in the world today.

I must however point out an extension to your theory: that is the resurgence of this form of control by use of the bible. The rise of evangelism in American society is something that alarms and appals me. The fact that the republican candidacy could even be challenged by Huckabee simply because he was an evangelical irks me to no end. I do hope Christianity can shake off this new assault upon its character and revert to the religion I know and respect.

Consider this an honest analysis of the Judaeo-Christian religion from a Hindu outsider

OP --

You should try reading "Foundations" by Isaac Asimov. Among other themes in that Novel was the idea that a false "Religion of Science" was intentionally created to try to hold together a galactic Empire that was falling apart into a "dark age" -- the priests of this religion used science that seemed magical to the common people in the "galactic countryside". Also, this "Church of Science" and its priests would be able to preserve scientific knowledge throughout the "galactic Dark Age" until the galactic civilization had its own "renaissance".

This is much like the Dark Ages in Europe that followed immediately after the fall of the Roman Empire. Once the Roman Empire was gone, there was nothing preventing Europe from falling into an anarchistic chaos. The Church at that time -- Mainly the Catholic Church -- used religion and religious practices to try to hold together the people of Europe. Religion became the "new caretaker of the people" since the Roman Government was no longer able to protect the people. Much of what was learned by the Greeks and Romans was preserved by the Christian Monks living in their Monastery Fortresses (who of course put their 'own spin' on this knowledge).

Many of the things that were supposed to keep the people from falling deeper into the dark ages were artificial ideas disguised as religious practices. However, not all of the Church's ideas for controlling the fall of the people Europe into the Dark Ages were benevolent ones, and some of these practices could be considered downright evil in today's standards.

I'm not saying there was a conscious effort at the beginning of the Dark Ages to let the Church become the defacto Government replacing the Roman Empire, but instead the church slowly evolved into that role. I also sure it had much to do with wanting to fill the power vacuum left by the fall of the Romans. And as with any group, there were certainly bad people in the church and evil Popes who wanted nothing more than to have absolute power over the people for there own greedy purposes.



[edit on 3/25/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Best most thought out post/thread EVER. I totally vote for "Above and beyond"

Your research is amazing. And sheds light on the fiction of religion . I wish i had somehting to add here . But i am nowhere near as good a writer . And i tend to let me personal beliefs get in the way of my posts .
Thanks for the great read.

If people could take the good out of religion . And leave the "Power struggle" Fear tactics out of the equation it would probably be the most useful beautiful thing known to man . If we all lived with the power (of love) And by the teachings of (even if a fable) "Jesus" The world would be an amazing place.

But alas there are the ones that have tasted the fruit of power . And power isn't somehting you give up easily .

I know i have been known to bash religion here. And i know i have probably spread my negativity around . But please know . I would LOVE for the world to live by the teachings of the wise man called Jesus.
Its just the parts of religion that spread fear , And certain types of hate that bother me. Trust that we would all love for the stories to be true. And peace to be felt by all. But i think that a change must come . It's always tough to see a problem . But not know how to be part of the solution.

couldn't agree more. But then again aren't ALL religions fake?! (man written) If you guys haven't watch "Zietgeist" make sure you do! Eye opening!

reply to post by padishahpoobah

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China was never Christian. Small pockets, sure, but if you're talking Abrahamic religion, both Judaism (historically) and Islam outpopulated Christianity.

Please name a successful nation founded on Christian theology.

Thanks mojo, excellent research. I seem to share your viewpoint on this.

Along the lines you have laid out, I would like your opinion (when you get a chance) on the information provided in the following link regarding the true origin of the New Testament: members.tripod.com...

Thank you all for your posts, i will get to them all as soon as i can, it may be a while as i am quite busy at work at the moment but i do have more research and thoughts to share.

I honestly didn't expect such a response.

Cheers mojo.