US warship 'opens fire in Suez' Breaking News

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by BlasteR
Our military has definately been making the news ALOT lately and not in a positive light. I don't think I've seen this much negative press in a long time.
[edit on 26-3-2008 by BlasteR]

Its an election year and the "media" hates the military as do most liberal demoncrates. The big mistake here is that they let anyone live through this at all. If a boat gets close enough to get shot, it should have been destroyed..........completely.

I'm curious if the patriot act is responsible for some of this intel coming out that implicates military wrong-doing. We know that for whatever reason democratic governors keep getting caught "with their pants down". Spitzer actually had surveillance on him even after they figured out it was just a prostitute he was paying for and not anything terrorism-related. The purpose of the patriot act is to fight terrorism, not to terrorise governors for hiring prostitutes. Yet we still see these democratic governors getting caught.

Didn't mean to change the subject, but if anything is terrorism related it would be components of our ICBM's being sent to China by accident. That story just came out a couple days ago and we are just finding out now that it occurred 2 years ago. Little bit of a time-lapse there. What else has been going on that we (the public) aren't being told?

The U.S. still has missing nukes, from bomber crashes gone by, that could be anywhere. I think we should be trying to find our lost nuclear weapons first before surveilling our own political elite for conducting petty crimes. How about using those resources to fight the real enemies? I just don't get it.

-ChriS

Originally posted by BlasteR


Didn't mean to change the subject, but if anything is terrorism related it would be components of our ICBM's being sent to China by accident. That story just came out a couple days ago and we are just finding out now that it occurred 2 years ago. Little bit of a time-lapse there. What else has been going on that we (the public) aren't being told?

-ChriS

You may have a point but, I don't think the warheads shipped to Tiawan was an accident. I think they just got caught. Sort off a cuban missle crisis in the far east. The problem is, did some smart Tiawainese sell the technology to Iran?

Originally posted by heliosprime
You may have a point but, I don't think the warheads shipped to Tiawan was an accident. I think they just got caught. Sort off a cuban missle crisis in the far east. The problem is, did some smart Tiawainese sell the technology to Iran?

Apparently the news reports are now saying that it was fuses. If it was parts for an ICBM like the earlier news reports had stated, then they have to be the fuses for the individual warheads on that ICBM. Taiwan didn't readily say that it had the parts, at least not in the news report I read two days ago. The original shipment was supposed to include helicopter batteries.

Later on sometime in early 2007 China contacted our side and simply reported that they hadn't received their batteries yet. Obviously they weren't exactly ready to give the fuses back. Either that or the Chinese honestly didn't know what was even in the containers (which is complete hogwash). China would have been expecting containers from the U.S. and would have readily inspected each container after it arrived. China claims it had no idea they were even there.

Now, China wants the U.S. to conduct an investigation and provide China with the results after it is completed. The U.S. isn't giving any information to China about any investigation whatsoever (which is typical bush administration).
See reuters story on this here:www.reuters.com...

The sad part is that this comes in the wake of many front page military blunders as of late.

-live nukes flown over U.S. by our own bombers last year
-The U.S. warship killing the egyptian guy in the Suez Canal

plus anything else we don't know about yet. Keep in mind that this happened in 2006 and somehow it got leaked to the press. The Bush administration, upon learning about the mistake, would have wanted to keep a lid on this, end of story. The only reason we are even hearing about it is because it somehow got leaked. Which reinforces the point in my last post..

How many of these blunders are actually going on that we don't know about and how serious are they? After working in munitions systems in the Air Force I know that people make mistakes. But I also know that the average working soldier does nothing with conventional munitions or nukes without clear authorization from the chain. This includes maintaining accurate accountability of all assets all the time. Especially with anything involving nuclear weapons.

All of these things are happening in the midst of a widely dispersed military fighting force and major global military commitments. Many, of which, will remain for the foreseeable future. We have yet to hear about our own commander in chief about these blunders and we won't.

I also must mention this quote from Cheney that I heard about lastnight regarding the war in Iraq:

"The president carries the biggest burden, obviously," Cheney said.

(See news story below)
abcnews.go.com...

-ChriS

[edit on 30-3-2008 by BlasteR]

doesnt anyone on here get it? do you really think you can fly nukes by accident? much less put out a news release about it?and put out by the airforce? NEWSFLASH! AIRFORCE SELF PROCLAIMS INCOMPETANCE
dont you know that nukes are kept in bunkers that you need presidential codes to unlock? you need a code to get them out of the storage rack.and they are painted red.THESE MISTAKES ARE FULLY INTENTIONAL. the same goes with the "warship" nonsense. it was a cargo ship, not a warship. you all seem to enjoy embellishing this. let me ask you ,if a commercial jet is flying soldiers somewhere,does it make it a bomber?
there are rules of engagement. if there weren't,don't you think there would be a lot more dead people?
i also told everyone on here about the fact that when in close quaters, these ships load the 50 cals and call every boat that comes within sight.
my daughter is on a guided missle cruiser, and it is standard operating procedure. i have gone out of norfolk naval base,on family day, and until they got out to sea there were 2 men on every 50cal.these guys are in communication with one anotherwith radios, and there is a seaman on the bow and one aft,not to mention the bridge,the call distance and location. so, obviously this boat diosobeyed the sop, or it wouldn't have been fired on.
my daughters ship has miniguns,mac macs, and some kind of new gun that works like a video game from the bridge,and they haven't killed ANYONE SINCE SHE'S BEEN ON BOARD.
i have met quite a few sailors in the last 2 years, and not 1 of them is waiting to kill someone. and take my word for it ..a ticonderoga class(cg) cruiser(which is what the USS COLE is) has enough fire power to take out a city...no problem.
so please use your heads and realise that rules were broken,protocol was ignored, and a threat was perceived ,or this would not have happened.
also realise that only the captain or the XO can give the order to fire, so scratch the itchy trigger finger malarky. there was perceived threat or the boat wouldn't have been fired on.

[edit on 30-3-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 30-3-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 30-3-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 30-3-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
doesnt anyone on here get it? do you really think you can fly nukes by accident? much less put out a news release about it?and put out by the airforce? NEWSFLASH! AIRFORCE SELF PROCLAIMS INCOMPETANCE

dont you know that nukes are kept in bunkers that you need presidential codes to unlock? you need a code to get them out of the storage rack.and they are painted red.THESE MISTAKES ARE FULLY INTENTIONAL. the same goes with the "warship" nonsense. it was a cargo ship, not a warship. you all seem to enjoy embellishing this. let me ask you ,if a commercial jet is flying soldiers somewhere,does it make it a bomber?
there are rules of engagement. if there weren't,don't you think there would be a lot more dead people?
i also told everyone on here about the fact that when in close quaters, these ships load the 50 cals and call every boat that comes within sight.
my daughter is on a guided missle cruiser, and it is standard operating procedure. i have gone out of norfolk naval base,on family day, and until they got out to sea there were 2 men on every 50cal.these guys are in communication with one anotherwith radios, and there is a seaman on the bow and one aft,not to mention the bridge,the call distance and location. so, obviously this boat diosobeyed the sop, or it wouldn't have been fired on.
my daughters ship has miniguns,mac macs, and some kind of new gun that works like a video game from the bridge,and they haven't killed ANYONE SINCE SHE'S BEEN ON BOARD.
i have met quite a few sailors in the last 2 years, and not 1 of them is waiting to kill someone. and take my word for it ..a ticonderoga class(cg) cruiser(which is what the USS COLE is) has enough fire power to take out a city...no problem.
so please use your heads and realise that rules were broken,protocol was ignored, and a threat was perceived ,or this would not have happened.
also realise that only the captain or the XO can give the order to fire, so scratch the itchy trigger finger malarky. there was perceived threat or the boat wouldn't have been fired on.

All the news reports say this was a warning shot that ended up inadvertantly killing someone. Although I may not believe everything the media spits out, Why would a heavily armed U.S. naval vessel fire upon a miniscule fishing boat with 3 people on board? That makes little sense. There is no such thing as an itchy trigger finger when it comes to large caliber weapons being fired by the push of a button from a console. The commander gave the order, the boat fired, and someone died. That's what happened. So, IMO, it was probably accidental as the stories say.

Where we disagree is with the Air Force. Some of these events are linked to incompetent officers/big-whigs in our military in general. I worked in munitions systems for 6 years so I am quite knowledgeable about weapons and how we take care of our stockpiles. Your statement sais that the president gives the order to take nukes out of storage because he has the "codes". That isn't true. Why would one man be given codes to all the nuclear stockpiles in the U.S., only to be thousands of miles away in the white house when something needed to be taken out of the building? That's not how it works. I think you are confused in that when the president decides to use the nuclear option, the president does have one set of the codes needed to arm the devices. Please see the link below:
en.wikipedia.org...

Presidential codes are only required when the decision has been made to actually use those nukes on a foreign country.

Although I disagree with you on the Suez Canal fiasco, I do agree with you somewhat about the nukes being flown over our country. But that is an entirely different topic that I included my lengthy statements about in the pertinent threads about that topic. I don't feel it necessary to reiterate my points again and again. You can find my posts here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

-ChriS

Originally posted by BlasteR

Presidential codes are only required when the decision has been made to actually use those nukes on a foreign country.

There are other codes..........the prez on clontrols "first strike" capability. After a first strike, secondary codes are available to those directly in command of the devices. Mainly on subs, but elsewhere too.

Too much hollywood guys..........as far as the Suez issue. I am still angry they didn't mash everything..............

Originally posted by heliosprime

Too much hollywood guys..........as far as the Suez issue. I am still angry they didn't mash everything..............

Of course you are. You're a very blood-thirsty, this is my rifle, kinda marine.

This is why the military isn't composed of only marines. They would just destroy eachother, and get nowhere.

You are very hollywood.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Of course you are. You're a very blood-thirsty, this is my rifle, kinda marine.

This is why the military isn't composed of only marines. They would just destroy eachother, and get nowhere.

You are very hollywood.

I do prefer the Joshua approach to fighting. How he handled the 5 cities............as the LORD told him. Kill every living thing, men, women, children, cows, goats, sheep, dogs, and then burn everything, leave all the loot too. Now that is enemy control to bring peace.

Israel and the US should use the same tactics........

reply to post by heliosprime


en.wikipedia.org...

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

In the event that I am wrong with that assessment:

Killing everything is not Peace. Did you read my post that I sent you earlier about what Peace is? You are very OT (off topic and old testament) with your death rants.

[edit on 043030p://1u30 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Well since the topic hear is about a US "warship" opening fire in the Suez, I would think opinions as to the "action" would be apprpriate. Since I don't share your hate for america I am now a troll? Thank you, from someone so misguided, that is a compliment.

I do believe, throw a rock as a US troop, ship, jeep, hummer, or anything, the US should fire back with a 120mm smooth bore tank round.

When a US military unit sets foot in a zone, ALL should fear total and complete destruction. Civilians should know if a terrorsit in there "midst" raises even a finger towards the US, the entire town will be destroyed.

When this idiot boat got near the US ship, every small vessle in the area should have been blown away.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Since I don't share your hate for america I am now a troll? Thank you, from someone so misguided, that is a compliment.

Your definition of Peace is intrinsically connected to War. I am not the misguided one.

I love my country. I love its People, and the progress We have made. I hate the corruption within it. Can you post where I said something along the lines of hating America?..

I do believe, throw a rock as a US troop, ship, jeep, hummer, or anything, the US should fire back with a 120mm smooth bore tank round.

The trading boat did no such thing, so that hypothetical is irrelevant at best.

When a US military unit sets foot in a zone, ALL should fear total and complete destruction.

Hello Hitler.

Civilians should know if a terrorsit in there "midst" raises even a finger towards the US, the entire town will be destroyed.

Yeah, that is something they should know. That doesn't also mean that it is morally sound

btw, that is again irrelevant to this case. These were not terrorists they were salesmen.

When this idiot boat got near the US ship, every small vessle in the area should have been blown away.

So you're either a Troll or you really are a blood-thirsty maniac.

Please, please show me some evidence that I am wrong on both those accounts..

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy



So now I am Hitler, a Troll, and a bloodthirsty maniac................


Ok, I am not a 'socialist" so Hitler is out! He was a "left wing" socialist.

Troll............err.........ahhh......too cute in my speedo for that..........

Bloodthirsty manaic? When wild crazed pigs attack, (Islamic Terrorist) I do believe in burning down the entire hurd. This is no more bloodthirsty than a local BAR-B-Q resturant that serves pork ribs to the public.......

Killing Islamo Terrorist PIGs is a service to humanity. God Bless GW Bush. Can't wait to make Texas Chainsaw Sausage out of OBL..........

This might not be a justification of the US action of shooting at the boat, but it might show the reason for fear of small boats approching.

The 150,000-ton tanker Takayama was attacked about 270 miles off the east coast Yemen coast in the Gulf of Aden while it was heading for Saudi Arabia, its Japanese operator, Nippon Yusen K.K., said in a statement.

None of the ship's 23 crew members was injured. Hundreds of gallons of fuel leaked before a 1-inch hole in the tanker's stern was repaired, the company said. Kyodo News agency reported that the Japanese tanker was fired on by a rocket launcher from a small boat.



[edit on 21-4-2008 by lost in the midwest]

reply to post by lost in the midwest


There is a threshold point between justified precaution and paranoid guilty-until-proven innocence. It's all based on the evidence at hand.

In the case of this thread, a small boat armed with cigarettes, where does it fall on that spectrum? The assertion here it seems, is that because it's war-time, it's justified regardless.

[edit on 023030p://21u21 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Fear is fear, when you sit on deck and see a boat coming at you, how can you tell they want to sell you cigerettes? The point I was making is that it is so easy to put fear into people's mind. A event only has to happen once, and it will stay in the minds of people for a very very long time. It is always sad when people die needlessly, but haven stood watch for a possiable attack I can understand how someone could over react.

reply to post by lost in the midwest


I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. But is that enough to justify innocent people dying? That's the ultimate question here.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. But is that enough to justify innocent people dying? That's the ultimate question here.

The taking of a life can never be completely justified and multible wrongs don't make a right. If the boat had been an attack, and many people killed as in the USS Cole attack. Those deaths could not be justified either. In the world we live in, you are going to see more and more cases like this one. It has happen in ever conflict that man has been involve in. This time it was the US. Next time who knows? All I can say is that it is a Sad World, and pray for Peace.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. But is that enough to justify innocent people dying? That's the ultimate question here.

Well to be honuest the guy should know its illegal to try and board a ship without clearance....and if someone still has a bleeding heart then the US should fork out for LRADS on these ships....

reply to post by devilwasp


Speculating whether they would have tried to board is erroneous really, since they were shot down prior to any attempt like that. Maybe they would have I tried, maybe not.

Keep in mind, even though this was a fairly big ship, it was still a civilian ship, no?