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'I am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds'

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posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon
Why did you want to play with numbers anyways?

Umm....because I was responding to your play with numbers.



Why do you assume that this other person thinks like me?

Because you both have the same opinion regarding this issue. Fairly simple........


I would suggest you were supplying a non-argument with a focus to create contention and numbers argument, and I was disinterested in that direction of conversation in this topic.

I don't care if you were disinterested or not; I was only responding to your non-argument with a focus to create contention.



Must you turn this conversation towards the people talking rather than the subject discussed?

Oh, so I am not allowed to respond when a comment is directed towards me. Ok, got it.



It isn't always political. I feel for you if that has been your experience. I don't see where anyone has claimed that you must like Obama, or any other democrat for that reason.

I guess you missed the point. It has to do with personal beliefs and not whether you are supporting a specific person.


it is easy to want to attack someone for having different views, and it is harder to bite your tongue rather than spout off the us/them mentality on either side of the fence.

Pointing out differences of opinion is NOT attacking someone. Although you may take it that way because you believe its your way or the highway.


Economically we can't afford a universal health-care system in the financial straights we are in right now. We probably could have if not for the Iraq War itself.

Thats the problem with your way of thinking right there. The government should NEVER provide universal healthcare whether or not its affordable. Where in the constitution does it say the government and therefore my taxes must pay for other to have healthcare. It's none of the governments business.




posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by budski
Ever heard of Haditha?

Umm....yes and it does not prove your point because that incident has been proven to be not what was reported. The soldiers were proven innocent.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


And where did I say that I was for Universal Healthcare? I was addressing the democrats in the audience, or the people who go by that label or ascribe to the labeling thought processes comprised thereof.

I again point out that comparing that more died in WW2 in a single battle only emphasizes my position that the value of human life has been reduced, especially when we are arguing semantics. I don't ascribe to you that you are a bloodthirsty sort, nor did I ever state I believed you held any human death to be meaningless.

That would be calling you a monster, which I do not believe you are.

You can assume as much as you like about me, and you'd be making an argument about me rather than anything meaningful. Whether I believe this or that holds only so much meaning as how I put it forward, and I am too far beyond thinking that I could sway anyone firm in their ways to my side of anything.

Instead, I look for the flaws in every argument... such as turning a discussion from a topic into a discussion about the people discussing.

Honestly, I don't like it when "LEFT" people do it, if you want to use those labels for people. I think it detracts from any meaningful progress in a discussion. It's the equivalent of name calling on elementary school playgrounds, with about as much aplomb.

I don't think you yourself would argue that everyone should have the right to good medical attention when they need it. I am not going to argue that Universal Health-care is the answer, I merely put forward that it is a problem and one that we can all agree IS a problem. It is just the solutions that may differ...

Much like the Iraq War. I don't think there are many people who would concede that it is benefiting the U.S., or that it is going smashingly well either.

Which makes Bush's commentary contradictory to the very nature of the War in Iraq... to have a foundation of Peace, you must first have the hope of stability somewhere within sight. Now, the Iraq government may come together, but it won't be the kind of "PEACE" that the deposers would want... which makes it more likely that a puppet government will likely come into being.



[edit on 27-3-2008 by TheColdDragon]



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


Ah yes, the good old military whitewash and cover up,

On April 17, 2007, the Marine Corps dropped all charges against Sgt. Sanick P. Dela Cruz in exchange for immunity during testimony. Seven other Marines involved in the incident have also been granted immunity.[45]

On August 9, 2007, all charges against Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt and Capt. Randy Stone were dropped.[33] On October 19th, Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt's commanding officer decided the charges should be lowered to involuntary manslaughter, reckless endangerment and aggravated assault..[10]

On September 18, 2007, all charges against Captain Lucas McConnell were dropped in exchange for immunity and his cooperation with the investigation. [46]

The investigating officer recommended charges be dropped against LCpl. Stephen Tatum.

wiki

Yep, sounds to me like they were real innocent in order to get the charges dropped in exchange for immunity.

Sorry, I stopped believing in the tooth fairy quite some time ago.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by tom goose

ou come into my country, kill my family, take my preciouse resources, cut off our sources of food, tell me how to live my life... I'd chop heads off too. You would think that folks would step back for a second and ask themselves "hey, why is this guy so enraged that he is will to saw through another mans neck with a buck knife?" oh ya. "they are evil doers, that must explain it, monsters, ya, monsters."



what utter tosh, those beheaders behead everyone, from the Christian Iraqi, to the Iraqi muslim who follows a different brand of Islam to the dude who maybe runs a shop- spare me the self loathing please



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by budski
Ah yes, the good old military whitewash and cover up
Sorry, I stopped believing in the tooth fairy quite some time ago.

Or it could be that the charges were bogus and had no merit.

Sorry, but it's a universal conclusion that the Haditha incident was false.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon
And where did I say that I was for Universal Healthcare? I was addressing the democrats in the audience, or the people who go by that label or ascribe to the labeling thought processes comprised thereof.

Ok, well if you are NOT for universal healthcare then I am sorry for implying such. The way you worded your post, I was under the impression you were FOR universal healthcare. Sometimes its hard to tell exactly what a poster is trying to say on forums.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


Not according to the sources I've read, which hardly makes it universal - of course if you only read military journals which pose as serious publications then you would take that point of view.

Women and children were shot by US soldiers in Haditha in a revenge attack for the bombing of a convoy.
FACT.

The US chain of command has covered it up.
FACT.


If they were so innocent, why the need for immunity?


And all that besides, there is still the use of cluster munitions in civilian area's, the kidnapping of innocents who were then tortured in abu ghraib, and the violations of the geneva convention.

So spare me your blinkered, pro-military, gung-ho spiel - I stopped believing in the easter bunny a long time ago as well.



[edit on 27/3/2008 by budski]



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


I will accept your apology, if you promise to be more considerate of your fellows here in ATS, whether you share your views with them or not. It isn't about who is right, wrong, smart or stupid. We should focus on addressing the topics, and trying to calmly and rationally discuss them.

I realize it's a tall order to fill, and I certainly have my own strong feelings concerning the Bush Administration. In that, I suppose you can say I share some sentiment of resentment with those "LEFT" labeled people.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by budski
So spare me your blinkered, pro-military, gung-ho spiel - I stopped believing in the easter bunny a long time ago as well.

Ok, as long as you spare me your blinkered, anti-military, head-in-the-sand spiel. See, it works both ways.

BTW, its not that I am unwilling to understand your viewpoint, its just that I don't agree with it. Big difference!



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


Actually, I'm not anti military - but I'm also not of the opinion that they are always right, which is your position in every thread that criticises them:
The Military Can Do No Wrong
War Is Good
Bush is Great
etc etc which is what I see posted by you time and time again.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by budski
The Military Can Do No Wrong
War Is Good
Bush is Great
etc etc which is what I see posted by you time and time again.

Again, the same can be said of you, but opposite.
Time & time again, your initial knee-jerk reaction is always:
Bush is bad
Soldiers did it! (Regardless of accusation)



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


I'd have another look if I were you - that's just plain wrong.

Except the bit about bush, who really should be put on trial along with his whole cabinet who have been involved in this illegal occupation and murderfest.

I mean if you really like bush.....



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by budski
that's just plain wrong.

If you say so....



Except the bit about bush, who really should be put on trial along with his whole cabinet who have been involved in this illegal occupation and murderfest.

I mean if you really like bush.....

He has no reason to be on trial nor is he a murderer.
Actually, I don't agree with Bush on tons of issues but he is no evil person like you portray.

Exaggerate much??!!



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


I see,
so you are a personal friend of his who can testify as to his good character, having known him for a long time of course.

I've got my proof that he is an evil man - provide proof to the contrary, other than just your word or opinion.
For example what good has he done, apart from to fill the pockets of his cronies?

Are you referring to his noble record in the vietnam war?
His record in business?

His election fixing?

His "drip down" economics policy?

Tell me please, and provide evidence, that shrub is a just and noble man.




[edit on 27/3/2008 by budski]



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by budski
I see,
so you are a personal friend of his who can testify as to his good character, having known him for a long time of course.

so you are a personal friend of his who can testify as to his EVIL character, having known him for a long time of course.



I've got my proof that he is an evil man

Umm....that's not proof, that's your opinion for crying out loud.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


I see you're determined to dodge the question I asked.

I can and have provided proof on many threads that bush is possibly the worlds most dangerous man and is at the very least despicable, and at the worst evil.

What proof have you ever provided?

About anything?



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by budski
I can and have provided proof on many threads that bush is possibly the worlds most dangerous man

You keep proving my point; please stop it!

What word in that sentence of yours proves my point......could it be the word 'possibly'? Again, your opinion and NOT fact.

My proof is that you have NO proof that Bush is evil. This is something ONLY in your congested mind.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan
 


I've proved my point in many threads, but here's another couple of pointers to the man's essential evilness:

The deliberate targetting of civilian area's in iraq.

The detention, torture and probable murder of innocent civilians who have committed no crimes.

The theft of a whole countries economic resources.

The attempts to usurp international law in order to make torture legal.

The ignoring of security warnings in the lead up to 9/11.

The pandering to one of the most oppressive non-democratic country's on earth.

The support for Israeli attempted genocide/ethnic cleansing.

The implication of him regarding insider trading prior to 9/11.

His "draft dodging" and subsequent non-attendance for duty during vietnam and his attempts whilst president to portray himself as a hero of that conflict.

His constant lies, rhetoric and more lies to justify the crimes he has committed.

I could go on, but won't - these are the actions of an evil man who cares nothing for anyone or anything except his wallet.



posted on Mar, 27 2008 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
My proof is that you have NO proof that Bush is evil. This is something ONLY in your congested mind.


But...

Substitute evil with "incompetent" and we're 99% there.

The 1% is for the fact that hes a patsy. A stooge. Possibly the most uneducated and uneloquent man ever to be President of the USA, and only in the position he's in because Daddy used to be head of the CIA, before he was president.

Thats my opinion. Do I have facts to prove it? Well every time he opens his mouth is a damn good start....



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