'I am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds'

No the last terrorist attack before that was in Oklahoma. Actually if you really look at history America has more to fear from within its borders than from other countries. There is a reason that there is alot of unrest beginning there. And i know that the American people are not at fault but a certain president is not making Americans very many friends on the world stage as of late. In fact since Bush got into power people hate the US more than before he was prez.

Just an observation but i think The US shot themselves in the foot with that one.

reply to post by NewWorldOver


Hmmmmmmmm.....NewWorldOver.....NWO....???? ahhhh now I see the connection, nice "throw off" hehe, you could have been a little more sublte though.

I am so pleased that some of you REALLY get it.

Surely, i am not alone in thinking that White House and its inhabitants are nothing but thugs and criminals. Thank you for thinking for yourselves, openning your eyes and seeing the evil that eminates from there.

I too am disgusted to the point where its keeping me up at night.
I hope this hellish nighmare ends soon, one way or another.

I'm sure if they have any say, it will all end with a bang.

reply to post by Stumpy1

We're trying to have a somewhat serious discussion here.
Do you have anything to contribute?

reply to post by MBF


Hmm wow. I feel sorry for you guy. You are so far away from understanding the real world it's incredible. I hope you are just young and don't know any better. You made the right step by signing up on ATS. Now the next step is to Deny your Ignorance.

reply to post by metro


I'm 49. I know a few people in the military that tell me what is really going on.

reply to post by West Coast

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

'I am Become Death, Destroyer of Worlds'

www.bestcyrano.org

On this fifth anniversary of Iraq invasion, George Bush said, “Because we acted, the world is better and the United States of America is safer.” With a million dead Iraqis, more than 30,000 dead and wounded American soldiers, the world now teeming with a new breed of America haters and more than 3 trillion dollars blown to achieve all that, the US president sits atop an economically crumbling America and happily crows his mantra. George W. Bush indeed seems far removed from reality.

(visit the link for the full news article)

There is so much dis-info in just one paragraph...
:
That article clearly delivers to its choice crowd (the anti-americans). I am afraid it is mired with opinion, not fact.

I agree 100%. This is yet another thread playing the same tune by the same author. Does it even belong in the Breaking Alternative News forum? No, it doesn't, but it sure does bump up the points!

And here's what these type of threads always degenerate into:

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by West Coast

 

You wanna talk about spreading disinformation. If you wanted to spread disinformation you'd down play the dead count to look a little less severe. Make me wonder who some of the people on this website work for. You took a page right out the "Cheney/Bush book of BS and other Nefarious Actions". using Bushco rhetoric isn't a good way to lie man. We're onto it already.

West Coast isn't even allowed to express his opinion before he is tagged as "the other side" of the argument: one of those evil, babyeater Bush lovers.:shk:

I think with many of you its the love of the "party" and not possibly the love for George Bush.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
Tell me its true. Please admit it so i can underestand where you are coming from.
Its time.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I am f-ing sick of this war and this administration!

I feel like we are living in some sort of twilight zone. How the hell can the over-whelming majority of Americans want this war to end yet there is no end in sight?

I am F-ing sick of our bloody apathy!!

viva la revolucion methinks

I don't know, but I share the rage and the sickness, it's surreal.

Originally posted by dgtempe
^ You know, it just dawned on me, that what IS going to happen is that for obvious reasons a Democrat will become president and THEN the country will go to hell in a handbasket...right?

Yeah that's the gist of it

Hell that might have been the ultimate goal, maybe it was less about oil, but really just a means for Republicans to defeat the Democrats! Who knows? heh.

I think #*$& is going to hit the fan during the next four years so if it's a democrat that gets elected then yeah, it does make sense that democrats will inherent the blame. Just like presidents inherent the blame for debt

If, and I hope this is fantasy speculation on my part, a republican administration gets elected AGAIN then #^$% will really hit the fan in the next four years and it won't really matter if republicans or democrats are better, or who is ultimately to blame.

I feel sorry for whatever president gets elected, because they are inherenting a whole host of really really big issues...

Except Mcain, I don't feel sorry for Bush's uglier clone.

I found the following alleged quote interesting:

Ralph Peters, the author of “Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace.” a rabid Neocon mouthpiece, revered by the ruling Neocons, in his prominently placed November 4 New York Post article wrote: We need to demonstrate that the US military cannot be deterred or defeated. If that means widespread destruction, we must accept the price. Most of Fallujah’s residents, those who wish to live in peace, have already fled. Those who remain have made their choice. We need to pursue the terrorists remorselessly…

…That means killing. While we strive to obey the internationally recognized laws of war (though our enemies do not), our goal should be to target the terrorists and insurgents so forcefully that few survive to raise their hands in surrender. We don’t need more complaints about our treatment of prisoners from the global forces of appeasement. We need terrorists dead in the dust. And the world needs to see their corpses…

- This was posted in a NY Post article? Sounds 'objective' to me!

- We now know what the word demonstrate really means - 'make an example out of'

- Who's really accepting the price? Who is really paying here?

- So the residents who stayed have made their choice. It's not perhaps because they're poor or too old to flee, or just have nowhere to go, is it?

- There's no mention of any other ways of dealing with terrorists, so they have to be killed, no bones about it.

- They will use as much force necessary to show the world that prisoners are treated fairly, but it's nobody's business but theirs.

- The world is seeing their corpses, but also a lot of other innocent civilian corpses... (oh well, that's the price (who?) pays for freedom).

[edit on 26-3-2008 by quintar]

Jsobecky,

I have read the phrase "baby-eating" applied in so many ways, in so many contexts, from many different posters in the past few days on ATS. Always from "the other side" in response to what we, the ones who voice our distaste for the current affairs of the Bush administration and company, are saying. Are we baby eaters? Or are you saying we are calling "the other side" baby-eaters? I really don't get it, I have seen it soooo much lately. What gives?

Sorry for the rant people, I just really needed to understand the origin of this

[edit on 063131p://26u31 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by West Coast

There is so much dis-info in just one paragraph... First of all, there are 90,000 Iraqis dead, no where near to a million. Secondly, there are 4000 dead US soldiers, and nearly 22,000 injured.

Well when you phrase it like that it really doesn't seem all that bad at all! No need to say grace kids! No need to feel blue! Perhaps you should co-write the romance novels with Bush!

And finally, yes the US economy is SLOWING some (expected to pick up in the second and third qtr, with optimists declaring strong growth outlook for 2009), it is however far from crumbling/collapsing.

Optimists?

Don't be so quick to say it's far from crumbling when we have many economic analysts very worried still, and some even suggesting the possibility of another Great Depression!..

That article clearly delivers to its choice crowd (the anti-americans). I am afraid it is mired with opinion, not fact.

Oh I love it!

You are flat out labeling the people, the "choice-crowd", that focuses on the things Bush says, and the mortality rates of 'The War on Terror', as "Anti-Americans", despite the fact most of us are Americans!... and have the gulls to say this article is stating opinion and not fact.

I am not anti-American, but I am anti-bush/admin, I am anti-invasion middle-east. I am not anti-American. Sorry if you can't wrap your mind and accept the possibility that people can be opposed to these atrocities and still be pro-America.

The lancet medical journal -

world renowed have published year on year using figures from a large cross sectional census , this is as-close-as-possible the true figures for civilian deaths within iraq;this does not include the numbers of peoples displaced as a direct result of military action

650,000 as of 2006 source report

WP - White Phosphorus;

before all the nay sayers come steaming in - the use of WP is not governed by any treaties of which the USA or UK are signitories they consider it legal to use against MILITARY TARGETS; ergo they have not signed to the CCWC protocol`s - although the video evidence is routinely ignored is the widespread and random bombing of WP on fullajah the words of the commanding officers in its use (randomly by artillery) in `shake and bake` missions - the city was blanketed by the stuff - you only have to watch the numerous video`s to show the daily attacks with it.

The USA originally stated it was used as smoke (to cover it use under aticle 1 CCWC protocol III)

The use of WP has a chemical incindary against civilians is illegal as defined by the CCWC protocol III - read what the USA and the UK have agreed to and what they didn`t agree to.


www.unog.ch...(httpAssets)/B409BC0DCFA0171CC12571DE005BC1DD/$file/PROTOCOL+III.pdf


the use of artilary launched WP shells into a city is breaking the CCWC where there is mass concentrations of civilians.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Lucid, it is pretty much fruitless to argue with some people about their views, such as JSOBecky.

It is important to remember that some people do not recognize the culpability of people like Bush, Cheney, and several others in the administration for their own actions. They don't recognize the level of personal responsibility that these men have for the bald-faced crimes they commit.

In several different topics, this particular subject has gone in one ear, and right out the other without even so much as a pause to stop for fries and a shake.

They are the same people that decry and rail against Clinton and his lack of personal responsibility for the things he did in office, while being completely blind to the fact that every individual (Including Bush) is responsible for the choices they themselves make.

They're responsible for the words they choose to say. Responsible for the bills they do not veto, responsible for the measures they propose, responsible for their opinions and stances. Nobody else is responsible for the myopic bending of reality that Bush and Cheney spew out.

4,000 Americans are dead. That is the sum total of an army 300 years ago. Our country has lost an entire ARMY of men. To those who've lost family members in this war, the only thing that can appease their pain is to believe that their loved ones did not die in vain.

To the 40,000+ dead Iraqi's, there is nothing whatsoever that can ever assuage the anger and resentment their families will feel for generations. The fire in their bellies cry out for vengeance and murder for their lost loved ones, and they will murder righteously. People such as Saladin do not come around in history frequently, to promise safe passage to the infidels back to their homelands. It takes a man with deep fonts of humility and compassion to parlay peace in such circumstances.

And we have none.

Our men of power call out for blood, more blood, while they sit far from sight of the dead and feast in good humor with their brothers in greed. Ten thousand more of our men could bleed themselves dry on the sands of Iraq, and they would still report in good humor that it was all for the best, a noble cause, a needed sacrifice.

All while they sacrifice nothing, and glut upon their winnings. Orwell, at the end of Animal Farm, related that the animals looked back and forth from pig to man and could not for the life of them tell the difference.

It's not even love of the party, dg. It's the fact that there are people here who cry about civil rights but would not give those same rights to Bushco.

I would feel the same way if Hillary or Barack were the president. I may hate them, but I would also defend their rights as citizens.

Want to make a screamer of a thread? Choose one word from each row:

Hate Kill Impeach Hang

Fascist Neocon Murderer Liar

Bush Cheney Rove Rice

And finally, end it with a noble phrase like:

We the people / Those who would trade liberty for safety / Patriotic

Ex: Impeach Liar Rove "We the people"

Your thread will be guaranteed a couple dozen stars and flags. You ( figurative you, not you=dg ) don't need to supply any verifiable facts in your thread; just emotion, sensationalism, and rhetoric.

That's what ATS has degenerated into.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by jsobecky]

reply to post by Stumpy1


... And to West Coast!

Even one dead is murder, when war is illegal, all deaths are murders.

Iraq invasion is based on lies, and now its make by war criminals. Its same if the count is 4000 or 20 000, civilian casualties 10 000 or 1 million, they are all victims of the crime, where the first victim was already too much.

All victims should be counted fairly, because their memory is worth of it. We all have seen lots of evidence from day one, that US is not reporting its casualty with honest ways.

Busheney government has lead us all back to dark middle age in todays middle-east.

reply to post by TheColdDragon



Troll Alert!

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

Lucid, it is pretty much fruitless to argue with some people about their views, such as JSOBecky.

Well, look who's back! The same person who accused me of being "divisive" in another recent thread.

You, TheColdDragon, are a hypocrite and a troll. Troll elsewhere, please.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
4,000 Americans are dead. That is the sum total of an army 300 years ago. Our country has lost an entire ARMY of men.

Or you can go the other way: 20,000 soldiers lost there lives in one battle of WWII. So 4000 is not even the sum total of one battle of WWII.
Oh and before you say it, YES, even one dealth is tragic.

Please get a grip on reality.......

Originally posted by MBF
What exactly did Saddam Hussein and his family do for his people? Didn't they kill, rape and steal from their people?

First, Id like to preface this post by saying, I think Saddam did terrible things to his people, and humanity in general.

But what did Saddam do for his people? Seeing as you asked, i feel it necessary to remind you, and anyone else curious or forgetful, that before the First Gulf War, Iraq had one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East.

With education, public health services, clean drinking water, increased employment opportunities, and affordable foods

Of course, all this was changed during and after the Gulf War...