I read something somewhere that alluded to the fact that the early old testamant or the torah which contains the history of the isrealites/hebrews, was actually a conversion of existing ancient egyptian historical accounts.

One can definately see that Moses had a heavy influence on the torah and he lived as egyptian royalty for many years. And there is no way to verify his non-egyption lineage.

What sort of information is out there to corroborate this connection? I am interested in some good information on this topic for my own research.

Also, if any of you have any non-faith-based info or comments that would be greatly appreciated.

[edit on 3/25/2008 by Choronzon]

Most middle eastern religions have similar structures to their mythologies and practices.

It is known from anthropological evidence that most of Exodus was more legend then truth, being that the Jews did not build the pyramids, and records among the Egyptians of Moses are non-existent. There is evidence of a Jewish community that lived in upper Egypt around that time, who were forced to leave over an issue of the Hebrew practice of sacrificing goats, which were sacred to Isis and therefor a source of tension between Egyptians and Jews. Other than that, a simple genetic test would show whether the two groups share a common ancestry, of which I know none.

I am obviously biased, however will TRY to provide neutral information for you to consider:
Ancient historians:
In what i know of sources using (except Apion) Manetho (Egyptian ancient historian) he (or his followers) considered Jews/Hebrews to be Hyksos. Whether it is true or not, it is probably that their agreed that Hebrews were not native to Egypt.
Am not aware of Greek historians who talk about origin of Hebrews.
Versions of Jewish historians (from book of kings to writings by Josephus Flavius) also do not support Egyptian origin of Jews/Hebrews
Roman historian Strabo supported your version,by saying he is based this on most credited report (Apion?).
Roman historian Tacitus, living later, presents several versions - Ethiopia,Assyria,Crete,Egypt as possible origin.
So this gives no clear answer. Anyway - in Torah/Old Testament it is clearly stated that together with Jews a lot of other people (including Egyptians) followed.

Culture/Religion:
The Hebrew language/writings/alphabet shows no to little resemblance to Egyptian one. More Phoenician/Semitic in origin. Religion is and was different, however monotheistic ideas appeared in Egypt also.
Architecture was not Egyptian , names, except Moshe are not Egyptian.
So it is inconclusive. However i would like to ask you - if Hebrew were of Egyptian origin - why hiding it? In ancient world everybody searched for noble ancestors/heritage. (Rome<----Troya...) and Jews just to puzzle the next generation hide their "noble" heritage and adopt a unknown nomadic one?

It's generally understood that Abraham, originally Abram, the father of the Hebrew people, was born in the city of Ur in Mesopotamia. That's not exactly Egypt.

Jesus, although possibly born in Bethlehem, was only there because his human parents were traveling back to their home for the Census, and they returned to Egypt ostensibly to flee Herod's Slaughter of the Innocents, but more likely just to go back home. Jesus himself, then, was essentially Egyptian of Jewish parents.

Of course, during their long stay in Egypt, it's not ridiculous to think that the two cultures mixed in a variety of ways. So when God sent the killing fog to kill the firstborn of Egypt in preparation for the Exodus, it was necessary for the Hebrews to take active precautions, since although God was apparently powerful enough to create the fog, he lacked the ability to sort out exactly who were the good guys and who were the bad guys. Too much hanky-panky going on to tell who was firstborn of who.

Akhenaten plays an interesting role in all this talk of the Jewish race being acvtually of Egyptian bloodline. The fact that monotheism began with his rule and eventually the Judaic Faith based itself on this unique single "God" of worship could indicate they were kicked out of Egypt after Akhenaten died.

That the PreistHood were particualrly ticked off with their loss of power and thus to regain it they persecuted/excommunicated all of Akhenaten's followers and hence the legend of the "Exodus" began is possible.

More possible than the alledged miracles that acompany the official story of parting sea's and selective fogs of death.

I apologize, I think my OP and subsequent articles may have been confusing.

I'm not really interested in the bloodlines so to speak, but that their religious rituals and beliefs may have derived from egyptian theology at the time. Namely the torah itself.

Originally posted by Choronzon
I apologize, I think my OP and subsequent articles may have been confusing.

I'm not really interested in the bloodlines so to speak, but that their religious rituals and beliefs may have derived from egyptian theology at the time. Namely the torah itself.

Well mate your Topic doesn't allude to that at all, I suspect you are pulling back for the fear of being labelled an "Anti-Semite". This very thing is what stymies fair and honest debate on this board...it seems all topics are fair game unless they have even the slightest hint of not painting the Jewish History in a good light.

Please reread the OP, I never mentioned blood lines, and no I am not in fear of being labeled anything. Not the least of which being that labels are a tool for the ignorant.

Again reading my OP , my original intentions are as stated. Not bloodlines but the history of the jewish people. And now elaborating on that by specifying their rituals and beliefs.

[edit on 3/25/2008 by Choronzon]

No problem....thanks for the suggestion.

Originally posted by Choronzon
I apologize, I think my OP and subsequent articles may have been confusing.

I'm not really interested in the bloodlines so to speak, but that their religious rituals and beliefs may have derived from egyptian theology at the time. Namely the torah itself.

The Torah is nothing like Egyptian religious beliefs. The moral codes (617 Commandments for the Jews) are nothing like any of the Egyptian religious strictures, and the Egyptian belief in the subdivisions of the soul and their fate does not match any Jewish belief no matter how you bend it.

The Jews, incidentally, did not believe in an afterlife. I'm in a rush, but if you have specific points I can belabor them later this evening.

Originally posted by mazzroth
Akhenaten plays an interesting role in all this talk of the Jewish race being acvtually of Egyptian bloodline. The fact that monotheism began with his rule and eventually the Judaic Faith based itself on this unique single "God" of worship could indicate they were kicked out of Egypt after Akhenaten died.

I'm not sure it began with him. He was the first in Egypt to declare one of the gods supreme and "dethrone" the others. I'll have to check.

That the PreistHood were particualrly ticked off with their loss of power and thus to regain it they persecuted/excommunicated all of Akhenaten's followers and hence the legend of the "Exodus" began is possible.

Ahkenaten built a royal city at Amara, which is where he and his priests and workers lived. The rest of the population never "bought into" this "worship of one god" and there was no expulsion of anyone after his death, according to records.

Plus, there's almost no record of the Jews being in Egypt. There are a few inscriptions from scholars who worked as scribes, but no indications of any sizeable population.

Originally posted by Byrd
I'm in a rush, but if you have specific points I can belabor them later this evening.

Well that is the whole point, I had heard claims before, but could not find any supporting evidence. That is precisely what I was looking for.