Poverty in the richest country in the World.

America is no longer a wealthy country to live in. I know that in the past it was unbelievably hard to get a green card to go there, now they can not even give them away. There does not need to be poverty in any country, or hunger/famine. There is easily enough food to feed the world at least 3 times over. Why this is not happening only a few will know. But you have to face it, America is no longer the amazing country it maybe once was. I would much rather live the chinease dream.

Originally posted by EndOfFile
Well I use to live near Cleveland and it was easy to go drive through the projects and see people on welfare with 1 or more cars...

Sorry but that's just garbage. Being poor isn't just about not having much money, it's a trap that is extremely hard to pull out of, for many reasons, that can't be generalised and stereotyped like you want it to be.

How many of those people in that 'project' are actually on welfare? Did you ask any of them? You 'drove through' I live in it, and I can tell you from 10 years experience of living in it you are incredibly wrong, misguided, and completely misunderstand the problems of poverty and what poverty is.

People are not poor because they have a TV? A microwave? These things don't have to come from 'black markets', or the high priced retail store. Most of them come from pawn shops, or second hand from neighbours. Also how many of these people have bought these TV's since they've been on 'welfare'? Maybe they had a job at one time? I had 2 expensive guitars (les paul and ovation) that I did recently sell but not because I had to but for other reasons. But point is owning those instruments didn't make me any less 'poor'. Selling them didn't make me rich either, as I think you assume people should sell all their possessions before they are considered 'poor'? How long does a couple thousand dollars last if you have to pay rent etc.? 2 months if you're thrifty?

What about businesses and the insane amount of money given to them to keep them from being 'poor'? There is far more corporate 'welfare' than 'welfare' for the poor....

www.progress.org...

Welfare for the poor is just pocket change compared to how much of your tax dollars are wasted by your government. The poor are the symptom of a system gone bad. We need to fix the cause...

some people might have the stats on this but isnt there a percentage of homeless people in america that have got lepracy and other nasties that have long gone from all other modern societies this is only going something i heard a while ago. not sure where to find the stats on something like that but im sure someone does. Besides it would be hard to call any country with any homless people at all a rich country.


[edit on 24-3-2008 by mullet35]

[edit on 24-3-2008 by mullet35]

Originally posted by Paper_Chaser
America is no longer a wealthy country to live in. I know that in the past it was unbelievably hard to get a green card to go there, now they can not even give them away. There does not need to be poverty in any country, or hunger/famine. There is easily enough food to feed the world at least 3 times over. Why this is not happening only a few will know. But you have to face it, America is no longer the amazing country it maybe once was. I would much rather live the chinease dream.

Yes you are right, but the reason is simple, this system everyone seems to think is so wonderful; capitalism.

Resources are kept artificially scarce to keep prices high. People go hungry because someone else took more then they needed and capitalised on their access by selling it at an inflated price.

In a system like this there will always be the 'poor'. You can't get away from it. Capitalism is a pyramid scheme, as advertised on the one dollar bill, and for there to be people at the top there has to be more people at the bottom.

As soon as the lowest earners start making more money, as a whole like in a minimum wage rise for ex., the system adjusts so those at the bottom remain there and those at the top continue earning more. It is not in the interest of the capitalist to eradicate poverty, it's as important to the system as is wealth, so poverty is perpetuated.

reply to post by nubiaislaam


GDP per capita is arguably the best way to establish how 'rich' a country is. Though, you won't find many US websites telling what the 2008 figures are. Even the current CIA figures are years out-of-date.

However, your country is not going down the pan! You're having exactly the same problems that we are having in the UK. We will assess, adapt and overcome these problems together. We can certainly learn from each other's mistakes.. and we may even be able to come up with one or two bright ideas between us.

We have to learn not to whinge too much when the going gets tough. Life isn't fair.. it's what you make it. When it does get rough, you rely on your pals and pull together.

It's easy to blame everyone who isn't like you for the way things are; and while we're all blaming each other, the situation gradually gets worse.

One of the greatest assets of the United States is its wonderfully dynamic diversity. Celebrate your differences, stay 'United' and get the job done. Things will get better !!


[edit on 24/3/08 by Myrdyn]

reply to post by ANOK

These things don't have to come from 'black markets', or the high priced retail store.

A most excellent post ANOK. Here I am trying to explain how someone might have gotten a misconception based on something they saw that would fit the stereotype, and you go and tell it like it is. I wish I could star that one again.

Along the lines of your post, I recently read somewhere, that most people who are in danger of starvation, actually own their own homes.

Before anyone goes screaming, "well why don't they sell?" let me give you the answers. If you can't afford food now, how are you going to afford it with another $1000 bill every month for rent? Then there is the factor of the current market. Who can sell a house right now? Especially one that has been run-down by years of impoverished neglect.


[edit on 3/24/0808 by jackinthebox]

I'm a little confused. In the US, do you have Social Security or Unemployment Benefits for those out of work and seeking emplyment? If so, why are people in danger of starvation?

[edit on 24/3/08 by Myrdyn]

reply to post by Myrdyn

In the US, do you have Social Security or Unemployment Benefits for those out of work and seeking emplyment?

Unemployment only lasts for six months. Social Security is only for retirees or the disabled. Neither pays enough to subsist without some sort of additonal assistance from family/community/private benefit fund, etc.

Originally posted by Myrdyn
I'm a little confused. In the US, do you have Social Security or Unemployment Benefits for those out of work and seeking emplyment? If so, why are people in danger of starvation?

No one is in danger of starvation, not yet, that's not the claim. The claim is 35,000 people don't get enough to eat, and most of what they do eat is junk food. You won't starve to death but you won't too healthy and happy either. Wonder why so many people are ill these days? Makes a nice healthy market for the health industry though doesn't it. It's not in their interest to keep us healthy when its ran for profit.

If you lose your job from no fault of your own you get 6 months unemployment. If you can't work due to disability you can get social security, but it's not easy. SS is not enough to live on unless you're lucky and have cheap rent. I have cheap rent but I still can't make it through the month without running out. How can people better themselves when they are stuck in this poverty trap? It takes money to make money.

But what makes it sick is, as has been pointed out, that there is enough wealth and resources that no one needs to go without anything. But capitalism keeps resources scarce.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
A most excellent post ANOK...
..Along the lines of your post, I recently read somewhere, that most people who are in danger of starvation, actually own their own homes....

Thanx...

Yes I think this could well be true. I've heard recently people are losing their homes because the mortgages have gone so high. Some ones mortgage had gone up to $6000 a month apparently and they just couldn't keep paying it.

In a way its our own faults though. We've spent years spending beyond our means by borrowing over and over. People live on credit. You can only do that for so long before it trips you up and you end up broke. The government does the same thing and bankrupted the US years ago. Wealth is an illusion. The 'American dream' is a trap, conditioning you to thinking you need more or deserve more than you do. A trap to condition you to spend spend spend, as if what you 'own' makes you the person you are.

[edit on 24/3/2008 by ANOK]

reply to post by ANOK

No one is in danger of starvation, not yet, that's not the claim.

I don't quite agree with you there, but starvation is not readily apparent either. It's being done slowly, and with trickery. Everyone talks about the recent obesity epidemic in America, and never realize it has been deliberately engineered to keep people from realizing that they are starving to death. That's correct, fat people are literally starving to death. Not from lack of what some might call food, but from lack of nutrition.

You won't starve to death but you won't too healthy and happy either. Wonder why so many people are ill these days?

It's worse than illness at this point. People are dieing from these illnesses and afflictions. Twenty percent of people with diabetes are not overweight. Therefore, I would suggest then that diabetes is not caused by being overweight, but from long term malnutrition. I don't know the percent for high colesterol, but there are plenty of people, skinny and fat alike, who are having heart attacks from the foods they eat.

For more on the current state of our food supply, please visit my well recieved thread "Let them eat cake!"

[edit on 3/24/0808 by jackinthebox]

Do you know what I find amusing about this thread?? The parroting of the right-wing meme from the 80's about welfare queens and demonizing the underclass while a few in the top 2% own 85% of the wealth, and work with the US Gummint to maintain that ownership and control. That's what you call corporatism...huge subsidies for banks we're seeing , bailouts, etc Oh and the poor on their lazy , fat asses draining the middle-class tax payer. What a joke. The brainwashing really sank in. Not to mention the racist overtones, my my my, its easy for for some middle manager type making 100k to look down on a poor unemployed man in the ghetto, but would never have the nerve to look in the eye of the CEO's with their billions and call them out for being greedy SOB's.

Ever heard of divide and conquer?

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Pilot]

It's just so frustrating seeing the people who take an individualistic approach to their dislike of poverty, not realizing, that they're the next ones to be pushed over the cliff. I am not saying that people should not take personal responsibility, but there are far more insidious works afoot than what most people are willing to accept.

reply to post by Pilot


Well said Pilot. Very well said. Indeed a star for you as well.

Originally posted by ANOK
I've heard recently people are losing their homes because the mortgages have gone so high. Some ones mortgage had gone up to $6000 a month apparently and they just couldn't keep paying it.

Some say Countrywide Financial executives helped destabilize the mortgage market by lowering lending standards and using shady sales policies. But should these same execs now try and fix this mess?

Countrywide Execs Get New Home At PennyMac

They caused much of this mess, by design no doubt, and now they get to grab their booty and wander off to finish them foreclosures off in a mop up corporation. The only thing that can trip up these thieves is if the dollar implodes.

It you want to fight back and beat the bloodsucking cheating bankers, stop playing their funny money game. Stop spending, except on bare minimal living essentials. Dry up the corporate cash flow!

It's up to you, sheeple. Spit on the next traitor you see walk into China-Mart or China-Buy. No? Then you all loose! And you all shall be poor.

reply to post by jackinthebox


The system is set up this way on purpose, somebody mentioned earlier that a large underclass is necessary - the working poor to be specific - who would take out the trash for the rest? I think the borders are so porous here on purpose, the more people willing to work for less is a good thing for the PTB.

I'd like to see pictures of these starving Americans.

I highly doubt any of these people would have the same problems that many African nations have. These people are truly starving.

I think headlines and titles like these are just attention grabbing. Sure there is a lot of people living below the poverty line in the western world, but I think it's insulting to the people in third world countries that are truly DYING from hunger. These people if they are lucky enough, move to western countries, work their butts off and make a good life for themselves and surpass many native westerners who are complacent and wait for handouts, blame others for their misfortunes, while doing nothing to help themselves.

reply to post by wrathchild

...native westerners who are complacent and wait for handouts, blame others for their misfortunes, while doing nothing to help themselves.

Why then, is the same not said of those who are suffering in the third world countries? Those that are physically able, should reap what they so, or move on to greener pastures perhaps. Why should we send aid to these nations, when it is their own mismanagement that has led them to their plight?

So what......240 million plus of us are living ABOVE the poverty line. That is pretty good. There will always be haves and have nots. Nothing new there. At least we still have some kind of middle class. Put the US up against any county even close to 300 million people and show me those stats for poverty.

Originally posted by wrathchild
I'd like to see pictures of these starving Americans.
I highly doubt any of these people would have the same problems that many African nations have. These people are truly starving...

Comparing your bad situation to another bad situation (Africa) to justify that bad situation is not a good way to look at things. Poverty the world over is caused by the same system we have here. There is always going to be someone worse off than you, should that stop you trying to better yourself?
Should we just except our poverty because someone elses poverty is worse?

Next time you expect a wage increase stand by your own logic and turn it down. There are thousands not getting a pay raise, so why should you expect one?
I guess Africans shouldn't complain about their poverty either because people in death camps are far worse off? Your logic creates a dead end of no change and a shifting of responsibility away from yourself. Are you afraid of change? Are you afraid to be responsible?