Real spark for Tibet's riots

reply to post by TheOracle

haha No man, woman, or child is stupid enough to start a war or provoke the evil Chinese government without 1st being provoked by that same government. Tibet was invaded & attacked by that dirty government because they want to have total control of everyone in that area.

The evil Chinese government seems to be on the same track as Temüjin (later called, Genghis Khan) was when he was leading a great army throughout Asia to gain control of poor & submissive nations, which would either be raped, killed, or tortured for the sake of expanding his empire/world government in large portions of Asia.

Temüjin came to power by uniting many of the nomadic tribes of northeast Asia. After founding the Mongol Empire and being proclaimed "Genghis Khan", he pursued an aggressive foreign policy by starting the Mongol invasions of East and Central Asia. During his life, the Mongol Empire eventually occupied most of Asia (like the modern Chinese government is trying to do so, today).

[From 1207 to 1210: Temüjin planned operations against the Western Xia, which comprises much of northwestern China & parts of Tibet].--Public record

As you can see, Tibet has been known to be a sovereign nation long before World War 1 & 2. As any of us, the majority of Tibetans want to live in sovereign country, without a tyrannical, blood-thirsty, power-hungry government.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Chad Andrew]

youtube.com...

A little bit about the history of Tibet. Take it with a grain of salt of course but there's always another side to the story.

reply to post by blahdiblah


Wow. That was an amazing history lesson. I really appreciated the fact that the rough english text was spiced just a bit with profanity. Too bad the video neglects to cover the unspeakable crimes against humanity that China commits against Tibetans. I also notced how new and chinese the subscriber was.

reply to post by blahdiblah


I know what I am going to say is soooo off topic, sorry Sy, but I have to because if I don't I will explode. I highly recommend that eveyone view the link posted by blahdiblah. And as you watch consider the fact that China suffers a blackout of youtube ( the subscription is just five days old) What you will see is the greatest failure of public relations in all of history and possibly well into the future of mankind. The video first begins by cursing at the viewer with text, then the text begins to insult western viewers, then with the usual rosey treatment that China rains down on Tibet it is suggested we read the history of Tibet and China. Our hearts and minds are being won over with insults and lies. Amazing!

reply to post by Witness2008


Witness2008 i think youve gotten a little bit confused. The video is a reply to this one: youtube.com...

That video is the one that originally had all the profanity etc... in it. The video stirred up a lot of discussion and views (1,702,162). So its only natural that the subscriber watched the video and decided to make his own in reply.

Hope this clears things up.

reply to post by blahdiblah


Your link sent me to the same information, just lacked the naration. And your point is?

Its a different link from a different subscriber. My point is the first video i posted is a reply to the second video i posted. The first video uses the second videos footage and text but the subscriber puts his own commentary over the top of it.

I'm not trying to sway people this way or that all my doing is going, here is some person's thoughts on the whole affair. I'm also trying to make you aware that the first video i posted is just someone analysing another persons video. They are just using the text and images from the other persons video they didn't create it themselves.

Does a prairie fire of grassroots need a spark or does the compression of repression create sufficient heat?

What triggered it in Tibet isn't as important as what it is REALLY about, at the simplest terms. The people are saying 'we have intrinsic human rights', but the government is saying 'you only have the granted rights that we dole out--and the police/troops that we pay and equip with your tax money is the proof of our power'.

What is happening --there--, may one day be happening --here--.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by twyce]

The title is the real spark for tibets riots...without understanding the actual history of the region i dont see how this is possible. People need to stop discussing sugar coated snapshots of Tibetan history, and actually study the foundation of the land.

In 1904 TIbet was invaded by the British, several thousand tibetans were slaughtered. China responded to the invasion with imperial army and forced british withdrawel, however england used conference in St. Petersburg to force tibetan "Independance" from China without China's agreement or even involvement in the st. Petersburg conferences.

1907-1962 Indian and Nepalese forces invade Tibet on various occasions to conquer and take Tibet for themselves. All invasions are fought back by Chinese forces.

In 1962 China defeats India and forces complete Indian/ nepalese withdrawel from Tibet.


Tibet was never " independant". It was a mock Confernece by the British that other nations used as excuse to invade, mainly by Indian and Nepalese armies in the ensuing decades. This theme was later taken up by activists.


It would be helpfull to study the history of a land and people before stating it is " Occupied" or "invaded". Tibet has belonged too and recieved Protection for over 700 hundred years by Chinese armies and Governments from foreign invaders and armies

China is doing a terrible job of managing the riots, that i agree with. But it does not correspond with then stating Tibet is independant as a result.



Current riots;
Foreign Business were targeted by monks and tibetans during the current riot, hundreds of business were destroyed, burned, and looted. There are video of monks looting and burning, so please dont lecture about peacefull protests.

When i visit Temples and Monastaries the monks hit you up for money, if you dont cough up to their demands they become rude and aggressive, as bad or worse than any panhandler in San Francisco where i lived for 30 odd years. It is actually quite sickening to experience.

This myth about Tibetan monks is not supported by most of my experiences here in China or Tibet. It is like any other group of people.

Not all are like this, but enough to give me cause and interject in this Thread being written by people who have never been to Tibet or China with no practical knowledge of history or culture.

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy

Well, in reality, there are native Chinese & Tibetans participating in this discussion at this forum-thread. So it's obvious they have a better view of their nations' history & current-events, than an American (or any other Westerner, like most of us).

The evil government of China has been getting ready for the upcoming Summer Olympics in a sadistic way.

In the name of ensuring stability and harmony in the country during the 2004 Olympic games, the Chinese government continues to detain and harass political activists, journalists, lawyers and human rights workers...

[edit on 25-3-2008 by Chad Andrew]

There are a few people in China, scholars, lawyers and artists that have gone out on a limb and published a petition that has shown up on Chinas internet. I have read many reports of riots and discontent in various provinces over the past few days. It seems that the voices for Tibet are coming from with in.

www.savetibet.org...

Originally posted by sy.gunson
The personal abuse in this thread has prompted me to make a formal complaint against both China White and wwssii.

It has become impossible to discuss the original topic in this thread because of the personal abuse directed at myself and witness2008.

China White has always attacked anything that explores into Chinese Gov't attocities on to its own people, let alone minorities like my Tibetan People.

China White has his own agenda here to UNDERMINE, DISCOURAGE, FLAME, ATTACK, CALL NAMES, and use many of CCP's shameful tactics to Put down any ATS posters who really is seeing the truth behind China's Economic boom and Human Rights records...among others.

Originally posted by Witness2008
There are a few people in China, scholars, lawyers and artists that have gone out on a limb and published a petition that has shown up on Chinas internet. I have read many reports of riots and discontent in various provinces over the past few days. It seems that the voices for Tibet are coming from with in.

www.savetibet.org...

Yes, Tibetans are pouring out the desire, the longing that they have had for close to 60 years under Chinese Gov't brutal Oppression.

Here is a good non Tibetan, Chinese website that strives to bring to the light, the Human Rights violation that China continues to committ

en.epochtimes.com...

reply to post by Himalayan


Thanks for the Epochtimes link. I found the article on the riots having been staged by China interesting. I had found a video a few days back that disappeared from Youtube for a couple of days but is now reposted. I leave a link for it. I was unsure what to think during most of the analysis but at the end of the news footage I was convinced it had been staged.

video.google.com...

I found another article on the possibilty of China instigating the riots.

www.phayul.com...

by Hallberg Rassy

It would be helpfull to study the history of a land and people before stating it is " Occupied" or "invaded". Tibet has belonged too and recieved Protection for over 700 hundred years by Chinese armies and Governments from foreign invaders and armies

It would be equally helpful Hallberg if you did not distort the facts. In 1720 the Manchu (Qing) emperor of China was at war with the Dzungars (Mongols) who briefly occupied Lhasa.

The 6th Dalai Lama was born in eastern Tibet at Litang and the Chinese emperor sent an army ostensibly to install the 6th Dalai Lama in Lhasa, but in actuality as a pretext to fight and defeat the Dzungars.

Over the following 26 years the Chinese meddled including assassinations of Tibetan leaders, to try and impose a Chinese regent until in 1749 the Chinese were also driven out.

Tibet was never " independant". It was a mock Confernece by the British that other nations used as excuse to invade, mainly by Indian and Nepalese armies in the ensuing decades. This theme was later taken up by activists.

In fact the British and Chinese Qing emperor forged an agreement in 1890 to carve up trade rights with Tibet, without consulting Tibet. In 1904 British forces invaded Tibet and forced compliance.

In doing this the British behaved no differently than when forcing China to buy Opium.

Nobody today accepts the legitimacy of forcing China to buy Opium, so why should China expect the agreement of 1890 to lay a legitimate claim to Tibet?

There was no formal Chinese presence in Tibet. Tibet was independent, self ruled and forged treaties with surrounding countries without consulting China.

by Hallberg Rassy

1907-1962 Indian and Nepalese forces invade Tibet on various occasions to conquer and take Tibet for themselves. All invasions are fought back by Chinese forces.

In 1910-1911 the Manchu (Qing) sent an army to invade Tibet. During 1911 China revolted against the Manch dynasty and became a republic. The imperial troops revolted too. In 1912 the Tibetans drove the former imperial army back out of Tibet.

In 1918 the British brokered a peace treaty between China and Tibet recognising the government of Tibet and the eastern borders of Tibet in present day Sichuan province.

Until the invasion in 1949 there was no Chinese presence or governance over Tibet, period.

There was no occupation of Tibet by Indian forces. There were disputes and conflict in 1962 about the border in Kashmir and Assam. The Indians are still in position in the Himalayan region of Assam. India was no longer part of the British Empire in 1962.

Hallberg Rassy, you have a very distorted and conveniently incorrect view of history and it sounds like it is you who actually needs to study the history of Tibet.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
There was no formal Chinese presence in Tibet. Tibet was independent, self ruled and forged treaties with surrounding countries without consulting China.

China was in a state of civil war, it was hardly in the position to reassert its claim. Beijing was also ruled under a puppet Japanese government and enjoyed as much freedom as Tibet did, even declaring war on America. But it would be strange to suggest that Beijing was not Chinese territory.

Tibet enjoyed Suzerainty NOT independence

Suzerainty (pronounced /ˈsjuːzərənti/ or /ˈsjuːzəreɪnti/) is a situation in which a region or people is a tributary to a more powerful entity which allows the tributary some limited domestic autonomy to control its foreign affairs. The more powerful entity in the suzerainty relationship, or the head of state of that more powerful entity, is called a suzerain. It differs from sovereignty in that the tributary has some (limited) self-rule.

In 1918 the British brokered a peace treaty between China and Tibet recognising the government of Tibet and the eastern borders of Tibet in present day Sichuan province.

Again,

It was a cease fire agreement NOT a peace treaty. It was also provisional.

The biggest fact you miss is, CHINA NEVER RATIFIED the cease-fire agreement which makes it void to China since they never signed it. Just like the Simla agreement and the Kyoto protocol. Its worth as little as the paper it was signed on

The imperial troops revolted too. In 1912 the Tibetans drove the former imperial army back out of Tibet.

And one battle means they won the war?

When China entered the 19th century it was using mandates of heaven and other diplomatic measures to assert its claim. It did not have treaties or anything because that was a Western notion of law which is hard to explain because it was a generations and the idea that I could be a slave to someone would seem absurd today. Divine right etc would seem ridiculous to us 21th people. vessel states and tributaries was how Asia was governed and trying to apply modern laws to the past is impossible

As usual, that Chinese government provoked the Tibetans to fight against them. The wicked Chinese government/army likes to beat it's own people. Why else would Tibetans fight against that army of criminals?

Remember that Chinese government is funding the genocide in Darfur, and selling it's own peoples' organs. Don't support those criminals. They don't feel love for innocent folks.