Real spark for Tibet's riots

wwssii the topic of this thread is the original cause of March rioting in Tibet.

If you want to discuss your conspiracy theory that ATS is backed by the CIA please start your own thread and leave the rest of us to discuss what sparked riots in Tibet.

Talk about derailing a topic, wwssii & Chinawhite i understand your love for your country, but going for the man and not the ball just makes you look like you are trying to derail this topic.

I agree that western MSM is putting garbage in our heads, but luckily we have been born with a brain which can put us in a state where we know whats right and whats not, Ethic and morale wise, and the fact that there is independent news sources all over the net which give you the news in a fair way, but that could be a problem for all the Chinese people to look on, because they are proberly banned.

Originally posted by Loke.
I agree that western MSM is putting garbage in our heads, but luckily we have been born with a brain which can put us in a state where we know whats right and whats not, Ethic and morale wise, and the fact that there is independent news sources all over the net which give you the news in a fair way, but that could be a problem for all the Chinese people to look on, because they are proberly banned.

I can fully agree with you except for the last part. You will be surprised that it is the independent news and websites that are not blocked or banned in China. ATS? Never since I started posting here. MSM? Actually I do not notice this either, I can visit CNN, Fox, BusinessWeek, Forbes, BBC and Youtube, Google Video, without any problems. Is the latter two video sites independent or MSM now? Especially the non-English websites you will be surprised how easy it is to access in China, I can read Dutch, German and French. Well we had these foreign non-English classes at the PRC Intelligence & Public Relation University, but enrollment is so low, yes students are freely to choose what classes they take, what a freedom! The only websites I have difficulties in accessing are the Hong Kong and Taiwanese news and forum sites and I heard that the porn sites are extremely difficult to access, really I only heard that from some friends....

To my classmates of the PRC I&PR U, give it a break, they are right, just talk about the topic or move on to another thread. What is the topic of this thread again? Oh I think Loke said it all with "I agree that western MSM is putting garbage in our heads, but luckily we have been born with a brain which can put us in a state where we know whats right and whats not, Ethic and morale wise". Enough said about the OP.

to sy.gunson, witness2008:

i disagree your opinions, but i respect your rights.
i am tired of arguing this now. really tired.
i have to work to make money so that i have no more time to go on with this.
i had thought ATS would be a bridge to narrow the gap between us, between chinese and the outside world. now, i know i am really too naive. so i give up.
do what you want and say what you want , anyway, we are all tiny part of the world and have little chance to change the world. so, i am not bothering to try to change something or tell something. as an ordinary individual, i love my country, also love peace and all kind of civilizations.
these days' arguing may be not so enjoyable, but at least make us know the depth of the gap. i have lost the hope to cross it.
i will quit.. good luck to you. i am in beijing, if the olympic still goes on, hope you enjoy it, it is the last dream in the small planet for the whole mankind to share peace,friendship and progress. if you win the boycotting or the disrupting, i will say nothing and go on my living with my fellow countrymen and the great land, no matter it is barren or fertile.

to all the chinese posters:

since more and more foreigners have regarded us as gov agent, since the rooted bias have grown in foreigners mind for a lifetime long, let's keep torlerance with this and believe the power of truth and justice. we can change nothing since more and more such things are waiting us in the future. sorry for my absence. i hope to stand beside you, but i really have no time and mood to go on. good luck to all of you, my compatriots, no matter where you are. long life understanding. i am proud of being with you.

to mods:
sorry for creating too much troubles on ATS these days, please let this post live through.

bye everyone, my friends or foes. maybe one day all of us can sit together happily, LOL.

...........

I agree with Witness2008 & her supporters. Tibet was invaded & attacked by the evil Chinese government (the evil governments of Burma, Philippines, and China seem to have a large portion of the most brutal & notorious bullies working for the world government).

reply to post by wwssii

Seek the truth (deny ignorance), no matter how hard it is for you, wssii. If you come back to this website, I hope you'll be living in a free Tibet!

I do Live in China, have been for several years.

Love it here, have the support of Govt officials to do pretty much whatever i want in Business, as long as it does not harm China. The overriding issue is always that betterment of China is under consideration

Before anyone goes off half cocked with Tibetan protests, it would be a good idea to review History of China and interaction with the western world and what was forced upon China; The Heroin Wars with England, Japanese attrocities in the 30's and 40's, The USA backing China in its war with Japan, then backing the wrong Horse and creating issue of Taiwan after WW2. Had the US not picked the wrong horse, World History would have been forever changed. There is good reason for suspicion.
The causes for the cultural and agricultural revolution, and now the expansion and opening of China.
BTW, when visiting northern China i usually cannot pay for food or drink in restaurants and bars. Many of the people are descendants / survivors of Japanese Invasion and still remember the Flying tigers and other US covert operations to help fight off the Japanese. They wont let me pay the bill.

After reading and studying these issues, then we will be able to discuss with reason and logic the issues of Tibet and China today. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

cc.purdue.edu...



This will give a brief history of Tibetan / Chinese history, as they are one and the same. After reading what the British and others have done to Tibet, then it might not be so difficult to understand why the present world looks the way it does.

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy


The history of china is available to anyone intersted. If you check out the threads I have linked you will see that we westerners are in fact well versed on Chinas history. The debate here is whether china has the right to subject Tibetans to the abuses they now and have faced since chinas occupation in 1959, and whether Tibetans have the right to protest against that treatment.

The concerns for most of us are the horrifiic human rights violations that are linked throughout the threads. None of us beleive all chinese are bad, I in fact believe that most chinese are moral and subjected also to the abuses of the Chinese authorities. China has a rich history having made advances in science when most of Europe was still trying to light fires, I have the utmost respect for chinas contribution to world history, with that said however, chinas communist structure can be brutal and disrespectful of any other view that is not their own.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

The fact you use the word occupation already betrays your (mis) understanding of Tibetan / Chinese history. Tibet was part of China's dynasties for hundreds of years before anyone from Europe landed in the America's.

Read more please.

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy

Tibet should be free. It's never been owned by the Chinese government (which is not a dynasty).

Governments do not own anything that they haven't made. Free people should control their governments (not vice-versa). The evil Chinese government tries to control their people, as if it's their holy-right to deny them their freedoms.

Stop denying the truth just because your government is acting as a power-hungry nanny.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Chad Andrew]

I think the real point that is being missed here is what do the Tibetans want? If they don't have control of their own lives and futures they are slaves of the State by definition. It is as simple as that.

Boycotting the Olympics won't accomplish anything however. In fact it could do harm. Interaction with other cultures and education is what will eventually free China. When the Chinese people decide they have had enough their Government won't be able to control them any longer and they will concede just as the Soviet Government did. Reagan did not bring down the wall; education and a desire for a better life did.

I think China is on the verge of good things now. China has had a generous helping of the good life that Capitalism can bring and they like it I believe. If they go the other way and close themselves off from the world all that goes away. I don't see that happening. The Olympics can only open the door a little wider and I see that as a good thing.

Boycotting the Olympics won't help the Tibetan People. In fact, it could make their situation much worse. The Olympics has focused the worlds attention on China in fact. That is certainly a good thing.

Tibet's best hope would be for their situation to remain on the world stage. The Chinese Government is sensitive to their image around the world and perhaps that could lead to something positive.

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy


What the Tibetan People want is far more relevant than the history of the region I'd think. If they are being denied basic freedoms and the right to self-determination they are little more than slaves. I find it interesting that people attempt to defend those who are enslaving them by bringing up the past and ignoring the present as if it is irrelevant. Tibet belongs to its people and its people should decide who leads them and how they wish to live.

From my understanding, Chinese people and businesses were being targeted in Tibet and the govt intervened.
I think it smells really fishy, all this negative publicity when there are Olympic games around the corner. Smells like CIA to me! The smear campaign against China/Russia has been going on for a while now.

The first people to conquer Tibet were the Mongols, not the Chinese, who then placed Tibet under their Chinese jurisdiction.

Tibet has never been part of China, at least until they were steamrolled by the Red Army and occupied.

reply to post by Hallberg Rassy


This thread was not started to be a history lesson, but I will reply and hopefully you will understand where in history is the proof of the soverinty of Tibet. The first archeological proof that Tibet was a lone independant nation stands in front of the Jokhang Cathedral in Lhasa. The stone monument recorded the agreement between the Tibetan Emporer Trisung Detsen Ralpachen and Emporer Mu Zong. It ended two centuries of conflict.

Up until 1951 Tibet was an independent nation.. of course on occassion beating back invasions, but then china herself had to beat back invaders, the last being Japan. The seventeen point agreement signed by gunpoint on May 23 1951 was never endorsed by the Dalai Lama nor the people of Tibet. Given that the Tibetan forces had been crushed left little for Tibet to defend itself with. Having been backed into a very bad corner through the military might of China the Dalai Lama was left to simply hope that china would honor the agreement. But alas Mao immediatly abandoned the spirit of the agreement specifally by interfering with the political system in Tibet. If Tibet had not been an independent nation, why the agreement?

What I find strange is that it is the same agreemnt in spirit that china agreed to following British rule in HongKong. Why does china simply not honor the seventeen point agreement? The link below is the agreement.

en.wikipedia.org...






[edit on 24-3-2008 by Witness2008]

reply to post by TheOracle


I think the timing is perfect. What better way to bring the eyes of the world into the human rights violations waged against the Tibetan people. I guess its not enough...the rape, starvation, murder of monks and nuns, imprisonment, and systematic genocide to bring about unrest. No it couldn't be that simple, now it has to be backed by the CIA. What is this fascination with the CIA. I find that particular part of my government not too terribly competent.

reply to post by deltaboy


Hahahahaha!!! so true

Seems like the Chinese are STILL not wanted in Tibet since they killed half it's population, and enslaved the other half , while conquering it back in the mid 50's.

OP, All Asians are not Chinese, sorry to break that to you. But all Chinese are Asian. Sorry if I kind of ruined this dream you were living in.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Nola213]

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Nola213]

The chinese are good! The chinese are strong! The chinese are the best of everything!

Originally posted by Ping Tong Wah
The chinese are good! The chinese are strong! The chinese are the best of everything!

Don't get me wrong, I love asia, I love China, I love all it's culture. However IF, and that's a big if (cause history books are often skewed) history is correct, what the Chinese did to Tibet in the mid 50's is one of their most terrible acts.

But who knows every country has it's skeletons.