Police in Rising Arms Race With Crooks

Originally posted by rcwj75
Glad you said this...might want to keep your own words close to heart when you post about the actions of 1 or 2 police officers!

Oh? And when did I do that, prey tell?

Actually though you chose to be a police officer and that choice alone opens you up to criticism based on the actions of the whole institution you chose freely to join. Skin colour, disability, poverty, are not choices.

As far as getting back to the OP. Bottom line is this...this country and world are no longer open to rome and do what we want. As stated before, there is barely anymore room...

The only reason there appears to be not much room is because of the way our system is set up. People are forced to congregate around the same area for their survival. Capitalism is what created cities. The Earth is huge, we only fill a small part of it.

It's become a violent world because again of the unfair system we live in where the majority of the world are kept in poverty. That violence is perpetuated by our media who portray it as the answer to your problems.
We don't teach kids to reason we teach then to react. Arming everyone to the teeth doesn't change the problem it ADDS TO IT.

Violence is only a part of life if you chose it to be. I have never ever felt the need to carry a gun and I live in an inner city high crime neighbourhood.

Now I know your saying guns only add to, or escilate the cycle...I disagree...a well placed round on a rapist, murderer, or robber get rid of THAT element..hence making the world safer for someone else who would of become another one of their victims.

You're missing the point. Confucius say man gets gun, other man gets bigger gun... It's a cycle that won't end. You want your children to be carrying bazookas?

There are other ways to solve the problem of violent crime. You just want to put a band aid on it. Bail out the basement while there's holes in the roof.
The system has to change but no wants change. They want to continue in the same predictable path and stick band aids everywhere as they go.

For example, anarchists point out that by eliminating private property, crime could be reduced by about 90 percent, since about 90 percent of crime is currently motivated by evils stemming from private property such as poverty, homelessness, unemployment, and alienation. Moreover, by adopting anarchist methods of non-authoritarian child rearing and education, most of the remaining crimes could also be eliminated, because they are largely due to the anti-social, perverse, and cruel "secondary drives" that develop because of authoritarian, pleasure-negative child-rearing practices (See section J.6 -- "What methods of child rearing do anarchists advocate?")

Source

[edit on 25/3/2008 by ANOK]

reply to post by ANOK

Well yes you're right but getting more guns doesn't solve that problem, it escalates it. As I have tried to point out in numerous posts here how fixing the problem by increasing the armory doesn't fix the problem.

Prove it!

Prove to me that owning guns escalates violent crime. I all ready posted the fact that a prison system that takes away every weapon they can imagine has a higher crime rate than the average population.

Prove to me that more guns would increase the crime rate when countries that have eliminated guns have only increased their crime rate, not lowered it.

My friend, you are making statements without any backing whatsoever. It sounds to me like you are making statements that you wish were true regardless of the actual facts.

reply to post by Hot_Wings


I can understand your reasoning but is it really the best way to look at it?

The point is any crime reduction from gun ownership is just a temporary fix, a band aid. If citizens can get guns some will use them to commit crime. Every single gun owner is a potential criminal. Criminals are not a race of people, they are you and me. Crime is a result of a system that doesn't work, not the lack of gun ownership, so the comparison of crime rate and gun ownership is not the whole story.

Yes gun ownership on the surface seems like a sensible thing, when you are inundated with hysteria of rampant crime perpetuated by the media. People want quick fixes instead of solving the cause of the problems.

If you actually read what I posted instead of emotionally reacting to my stance you would see I don't really advocate banning guns per say, I just KNOW there is a better way to reduce crime. But the alternative way isn't so easy as buying a gun and just hoping that you won't have to use it. The alternatives require a change in the way you think and the way society treats its people. It requires the changing of how we raise our children.

I believe though a reduction of gun ownership would force people to look for the alternatives to reduce crime. I don't claim it would be easy, is anything we fight for ever easy?

The cycle of violence needs to be stopped, or gun ownership or not crime will continue to rise regardless.

The crime is the lack of educating our people and the ideals and beliefs we teach our kids.We are way too overpopulated and keep brainwashing each generation of our youth with violent movies,music and games.

It shoild be mandatory for everyone to learn how to use and know how to handle a gun.If you don't know how to use a tool,accidents happen, Also,I would like to know how many of these crimes are being caused by people with legal guns. I know that most people who want guns don't want to rui the privelage of owning one by going out and doing a stick up or murder.

These people are highly unstable and I'm sure the biggest percentage is with illegal guns.Should the rest of society suffer because of a bunch of A holes?

If anyone knows of any links to obatain this info I would appreciate it. I'll go try to find some myself.Thx

reply to post by 19DCW71


But your method would teach children to BE violent, we need to teach them violence is wrong. Your method just continues the cycle of violence. If we teach them to be violent through the media isn't the logical answer to stop teaching them violence through media?

People act like violence in the media and in society is a done deal and can not be stopped. But it can if we want it...



(what's up with every pic I find being on flickr now, i hate that site lol)

reply to post by ANOK
Maybe I worded it wrong but that's the point I was trying to make.It's all because of the media.

So in turn we have to educate them and obviously if they learn all this violence from movies music and games, it would be the logical way to reach them and teach them.

I didn't mean that because everyone knows how to handle a gun that crime would stop cause it wouldn't.Just like teaching kids that unprotected sex is bad they still do it anyway.

Maybe we're just breeding really stupid kids.Problem is some people shouldn't be allowed to breed. A MAJORITY of the criminals come from seriously disfunctional family life or lack of. No father, or mom's a crack whore who got pregnant trying to get money for a hit.

I teach my kid to have morals and values in life.Right from wrong work hard and earn what you have and be proud that you worked hard for and deserve it. I also teach him how to shoot and know every aspect of a gun.I highly doubt my kid will ever be a criminal.He has too many values instilled in him from birth.

Chances my kid becomes a gun wielding criminal: .1%
Chances he becomes what he wants(which is a Surgeon): 99.9%

he's 14 and knows that he wanted to help people since he was 8,So i know I ninstilled good values in him.

Sad to say it comes down to values and morals and alot of people don't have them regardless of what we teach them

reply to post by ANOK


ANOK I admire your desire for peace and for people to learn violence doesn't pay and that we should all be able to live amongst each other in some kind of harmony. I do, I get it...and I WISH this was reality...but its not. This was the path chosen for man......it has to be, or it would of stopped a long time ago.

You can love, teach, support, and give everything you have to people but there will ALWAYS be those who want more, or want it their way and will do ANYTHING to get it. It's just the way it is....your trying so hard to instill that EVERY person can be taught peace and then it will spread and they will ALL grow to banish guns, knives, weapons period. And that there will be no fighting or killing. If there is a problem they will just talk about it, then realize their mistake, hug, get high and enjoy the rest of the day never do have even raised a voice to one another. Again...I'm all for it...all for it...but the only 2 places that world exsists are in our dreams, and in heaven!

Originally posted by ANOK

Oh? And when did I do that, prey tell?

Actually though you chose to be a police officer and that choice alone opens you up to criticism based on the actions of the whole institution you chose freely to join. Skin colour, disability, poverty, are not choices.

That would be your first post in this thread comparing my profession with the criminals themselves. Along with some other "cops don't care" remarks led me to see you stereotype like everyone else. I have 2 friends who's names now appear on the Policeman's Memorial wall in DC because they did care. One cared enough to take a bullet in the neck chasing a robber, and the other was killed saving 2 people from a fire...he got them out (ages 11 and 16) but guess who the floor didn't hold out for? So don't tell me we don't care.

As for selecting this job...correct and I take everything that comes with it. Just like I did when I was a soldier. Like I stated above, it would be great to have a world in which you want and try to live in...but there is another world outside your living room and town...come to Atlanta and spend 3 nights downtown on your own with no weapon of anykind...and use your peace love and harmony theory on those that will confront you here...and you'll see where I'm coming from that your wrong! There is an evil among us that the people of peace will never see, thanks to those willing to deal with it for them.....


[edit on 3/25/2008 by rcwj75]

Originally posted by 19DCW71
Chances my kid becomes a gun wielding criminal: .1%
Chances he becomes what he wants(which is a Surgeon): 99.9%

he's 14 and knows that he wanted to help people since he was 8,So i know I ninstilled good values in him.

Sad to say it comes down to values and morals and alot of people don't have them regardless of what we teach them

Just wanted to say WAY cool that your son has goals like that. I wanted to be a Pro Football Player and a COP....well 1 out of 2 ain't bad...lol

But your last sentence is SOOO true....teach them all day long, most will take it in and learn...but some will block it out..and NEVER be reached

Originally posted by 19DCW71
reply to post by ANOK

 

Maybe I worded it wrong but that's the point I was trying to make.It's all because of the media.

Yeah I agree about the media, I didn't agree with teaching kids to use guns, maybe I misunderstood with that?

But my point is still valid as far as how we could reduce crime, as you say, by teaching our kids how to be considerate to other people instead of that only they matter. Kids are taught to be selfish, lazy, apathetic, overly competitive, subservient to authority, all the traits the system likes in its population. We teach kids to be violent by not teaching them diplomacy, consideration for others, and how to solve issues peacefully.
Society as a whole is taught this by the actions of their own governments.

I'm not arguing with you, but agreeing...

WOW, I'm impressed by the posts here, from all the America-haters I get on other threads I thought for sure this one would be a liberal whine fest too, what a pleasent suprise, especialy from biggie-smalls, I was starting to wonder about my fellow Arizonans, but as long as your not out to collect my guns, were all good.

@rcwj75- Your the most moral upstanding cop I've heard speak in a long time, outside the LEAP site (Law Enforcement Agaisnt Prohibiton). Its really encourageing to hear there are still some thoughfull constitutional cops out there, who won't collect guns for the NWO. Even if you do like prohibition, as long as you abide by the constitution, NOT the current unconstitutional laws, things will sort themselves out, either it will be amended (like last prohibiton) or abolished again. I'm fighting being jaded against cops in general, after being searched illeagaly twice, and having my guns taken 3 times, most of wich were antique family keepsakes.

@The Topic- Gun laws only restrict the law abideing citizen. There should be as many gun laws as there are bubblegum laws. Sure maybe 3yr olds shouldn't be able to walk out with a new tommy gun, but anything short of that mearly gives thugs and slime buckets an upper hand.

Before 20's prohibiton, before crime was made big buisness, America was a really really safe place to live. You didn't take naked pictures of little boys or girls because if daddy saw the picture you were a dead man. You didn't rob a store lightly because the owner would shoot you and the cops that showed up would help him kick your dead corpse and shake his hand afterwards. You didn't kick a mans dog because he probably had a pistol in his pocket. Those who engaged in such activities didn't live long, so they found easier more leagal ways to make a buck, or got dead. Natural selection has run amuck, and the law has been twisted to protect the obvoiusly evil, at the expense of the liberty of obviously good people.

Take away all weapon restrictions just short of nukes, along with a reset of all laws to either show thier constitutional backing or be abolished, and watch us flourish in liberty and good will towards our fellow man. But you hippey peaceniicks wouldn't like that, you'd have to protect yourselves, work for a living, get paid according to the quality of work you did, stop talking smack to those you couldn't beat up, and keep your gayness in the bedroom, or withstand the snikers.

@ANOK- Sorry your so jaded agaisnt your own country, "The pain you feel is the love you with hold". I hate your political view, but I still got love for YOU man. Bitterness only hurts YOU, it won't make you feel any better, and it sure won't hurt the ones who hurt you. Like how I'm trying real hard not to hate on cops, who have really tried to hurt me, the hate will only hurt me, they are just people too.

reply to post by HellHound63S


Thanks Hound...and as i stated before...I treat those I deal with daily how I would want to be treated if I were on the other side. And yeah....there is NO DOUBT...if we as a nation lose that 2nd Amendment right, I'll be glad to walk away from my LEO job...because by then, it won't mean anything anyway.

As a guy who loves shooting, I sure hope that day never comes!!!

Originally posted by HellHound63S
@ANOK- Sorry your so jaded agaisnt your own country, "The pain you feel is the love you with hold". I hate your political view, but I still got love for YOU man. Bitterness only hurts YOU, it won't make you feel any better, and it sure won't hurt the ones who hurt you. Like how I'm trying real hard not to hate on cops, who have really tried to hurt me, the hate will only hurt me, they are just people too.

Wow so many people assume to know where others are coming from.

My anger is motivated by love not hate.

If you're not angry, then you're not paying attention!

@ANOK-

Oh I'm angry man!

I'm angry poeple think my personal defence should be left to the federal government.

I'm angry we the poeple forgott how important liberty is.

I'm angry I have to live in fear of being sued for defending myself.

I'm angry vets aren't automaticly taken care of for life, regaurdless of the reason.

I'm angry that all the lives that were spent on establishing the constitution, and the ones spent maintaining it, have been flushed down the tubes, because now we're gonna have to pay a lot more to get it back out of the pawn shop.

I'm angry that cops NEED big weapons, because regular malitia citizens don't all have them, to keep the thugs in check.

I don't get it, how you can be any flavor of anarchist and not support the end of all gun laws? Arms races aren't always a bad thing, amoung the public, much like anarchy it decentralises the public defence, what better form of democracy? Vote with where you point your gun, I like that idea.

Back on topic-- I love it here in AZ, we can still carry in the open, in a holster, makes me feel safe when I see 'ol beer belly bubba at the grocery store packin heat, that's ONE store that ain't getting robbed soon!

Really though, let citizens have all the wepons they can afford, and once again cops can have them all they want too, but they won't need them, (in cuontry twang) 'ol beer belly bubba wouldn't a let the california robbery go very long, them bank robbin' boys woulda' had a couple .30-06 deer slugs (expensive stuff) put in thier thick little skulls, safely from 600yrds away, them AKs can't hit nothin' beyond 300yrds! EEEE HAAAAA!



LOL Ya libs would put gunfree zones around every gunshop

OH YA, edit for P.S.- @rcwj75- Amen Brother, that's the most anyone can ask of anyone else! Not only does it make you a more respectable LEO, but its gotta help how you feel about yourself, it makes you a better person than most! If we all followed the golden rule, poeple everywhere would have about 99.99% of thier problems fixed overnight!


[edit on 26-3-2008 by HellHound63S]

Originally posted by HellHound63S
@ANOK-...Oh I'm angry man!...

Do you know the difference between Nationalism and Patriotism? Or even Socialism and Fascism? Do you really understand what it is you're supporting?

Quick question; who was worse, Hitler or Stalin? One was right wing, one was left, I'm sure you know which? But one thing is quit plain, left or right, they're both the same...Who is your leader? Who do you watch?

Who do you watch?

orangoo.com...

Originally posted by rcwj75
Again...I'm all for it...all for it...but the only 2 places that world exsists are in our dreams, and in heaven!

If you were all for it then you would not have such a defeatist attitude towards it! I really don't mean that offensively. But when you speak in such an absolute way, I am naturally going to assume you also feel in that absolute way; and if that is so, then are you really giving it a fair chance?

Heaven on Earth my friend... that's the Dream. As unrealistic, or unfeasible as it may sound, progress is only made by striving towards a better way of being.

That said, I am not selling my gun yet

Originally posted by HellHound63S
WOW, I'm impressed by the posts here, from all the America-haters I get on other threads I thought for sure this one would be a liberal whine fest too, what a pleasent suprise

No surprise to see the same contribution to a thread from you though!

Everyone that doesn't see the world exactly as you do is an American-hating commy liberal swine.

Thanks for the informative content ...

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by rcwj75
Again...I'm all for it...all for it...but the only 2 places that world exsists are in our dreams, and in heaven!

Heaven on Earth my friend... that's the Dream. As unrealistic, or unfeasible as it may sound, progress is only made by striving towards a better way of being...

Yeah just to ad to this an analogy...

If you don't strive for the top of the mountain you won't even make it halfway...And halfway is better than staying at the bottom.

To rcw...
Anarchism is the ideal, and I believe the way Humans will naturally evolve, but do I think it will happen in my lifetime? Probably not. It ain't going to stop me thinking in those terms though. You can call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

And for another appropriate Lennon quote, 'War is over, if you want it'.

'If you want it', very important words right there....Isn't it Americans who always say you can have anything you work hard enough for? Or does that just mean money, and shallow endeavors?

Do you want it?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
If you were all for it then you would not have such a defeatist attitude towards it! I really don't mean that offensively. But when you speak in such an absolute way, I am naturally going to assume you also feel in that absolute way; and if that is so, then are you really giving it a fair chance?

Heaven on Earth my friend... that's the Dream. As unrealistic, or unfeasible as it may sound, progress is only made by striving towards a better way of being.

That said, I am not selling my gun yet

For the same reason you admitted your not selling your gun. Everyone would love something better for themselves ro the world around them. But the reality of life...the PRE destination is already planned out. IMO

Hence why I can say I am all for peace and the ability to want us all to live happily ever after, but also understanding it won't happen....I do agree with ANOK on the point that it is something that over time may be able to be taught to the majority...but I really dont think EVERY person would latch on to the idea. We were created in such a way that allows for us to take 1 of 2 paths...and no matter how safe and fun 1 path looks you will ALWAYS have those who will choose NOT to follow the rest and head down the other!