Otis Moss III - Obama's New Pastor

OK, folks. Let's stay on topic and stop the personal sniping, please.

Originally posted by jsobecky
what business is it of yours what or how much FF decides to post on?

It isn't. And it's all off topic.

Sublime .. you are AGAIN off topic and making personal attacks.
You really need to get out of that habit.
What I post .. and how much of a subject I post on .. IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Originally posted by Sublime620
A new record for mudslinging I think!!

You ‘think’?? Oh .. that’s tempting.
And it's called - EXPOSING THE FACTS.

you complain that he didn't distance himself from he Reverend. Then, when he goes and gets someone new, you rip him a new one again.

Read the thread. Moss and Wright both adhere to the ‘black liberation theology’. So does Obama. There is not much, if any, difference between Wright and Moss.

What do you expect?

For all the Obamatrons to WAKE UP and see that Obama is just an anti-white, anti-jew, racist pig. But, considering how much kool-aide some of them have drank … it seems unlikely that they will break free from their delusions about Obamessiah.

When Bush said OBGYNs …. When he used bad intelligence to attack Iraq, …. waterboarding,

ALL off topic – but for the record –

OBGYNs – hadn’t heard that one.

BAD INTELLIGENCE – yep … discussed it all over the place and I have stated, many times, that Bush AND the State Department screwed up.

WATERBOARDING – yep .. again .. discussed it all over the place and I have stated that it definitely IS torture and that if Bush doesn’t think it is then he ought to ‘give it a try’.

So … You are (again) dead wrong. AND OFF TOPIC!!

You are all about party allegience.

:shk: Just in the past two weeks or so -
Remember the Keating Five
I feel sorry for Bill Clinton
John McCain and Peabody Oil Info

I'm not impressed,

I don’t care if you are impressed or not. NO ONE cares if you are impressed or not.

anyone who takes a look at you're posting history shouldn't be either.

And now you are telling others what they should think of me? That’s lame.

Just keep slangin that mud.

Just keep making off topic personal slams.
You’ve been scolded before on this, sublime.
Oh .. and what I post are FACTS.



[edit on 4/20/2008 by FlyersFan]

A friendly reminder for everyone...the posts centered on other members needs to stop now. Please keep all discussion on the topic at hand and refer to the following quote and link.

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As we attempted to promote (and tolerate) political debate on AbovePolitics.com, we became more lenient of intensely passionate posts, and applied a slightly more lax standard of management than what would be typical on ATS. This generally will not longer be the case, the discussions within the newly reintegrated political forums will be held to the same standard as all forums on ATS... with one minor exception, the Political Ideology forum. Within the Ideology forum, intensely critical posts of political positions will be allow, so long as the posts are not personal attacks on the political positions of members.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thank You and I now return you to the regularly scheduled thread topic, "Otis Moss III - Obama's New Pastor"

My 2 bucks worth (inflation's a witch ain't it?)

First of all, I have gotten the distinct impression from, Senator Obama's discussion of his early career in The Audacity of Hope that he joined a church not because he was ready to commit his life to Jesus Christ, but because he wanted to accomplish things in his community and he felt he could get more done with the support of what he calls, "the historically black church" than he could without.

He was probably right about that. "Black Churches" have some interesting traits that are lacking in some other Christian institutions.

1. Their perspective of the religious life and the role of the church is shaped by different realities.

Mainstream protestant Christianity is a product of the Reformation, and focuses on getting you into Heaven without going through a corrupt church heirarchy. The role of the "white church" if I may generalize, is to give you spiritual education so that you're not dependent on a priest, to help you live well and embrace god's grace so that you're not dependent on indulgences or rites designed to work you out of purgatory, and to give you fellowship so you don't keep the company of people who will drag you down.

What Senator Obama has termed "The Historically Black Church", on the other hand, never knew medieval catholicism and has been able to take salvation by grace more or less as a given. It is more a product of an oppressed people having Christianity forced upon them in a time when most social and political outlets were off limits to them. So their church became a social safety net and an engine of change, even of revolution, which identifies very closely with the struggles of the Old Testament.

2. For the same reasons that it differs from European-born views of Christianity, the "Black Church" has never been banished from politics in quite the same way.

White people wanted religion out of their politics because they realized it was used to control their politics for a long time (and vice versa).

On the other hand, White people kept on trying to use religion to control conquered peoples well after that- whether we're talking about the Spanish conquest or the forced Christian indoctrination of African slaves, that was pretty much the rule.

And because Black people lacked a separate political outlet for quite some time, they made religion a center of organization rather than kicking it out of politics, and it played a part in the civil rights movement. Winning battles on that front served to strengthen the black churches political position.


So, my interpretation is that Senator Obama has something of a strategic alliance with his church. It was a useful, perhaps even a necessary venue for some things that needed doing, and he flat out admits that he had to supress doubts when he joined. I don't think he genuinely represents all of the ideologies espoused by the church or its leaders. I believe he merely was sensible enough to, if I may borrow from Donnie Rumsfeld, "go to work with the organization you have, not the one you'd like to have" and to know that turning aroud and disowning them later for any reason would be questionable even if sincere and thus disingenuous.


Secondly, even if I am mistaken, I believe that the rammifications of having a president who sincerely agrees with Moss (and by implication, with Wright) have been somewhat exagerrated.

Other than being horribly impolite, what is the problem with damning America for percieved wrongdoings? (unless of course Rev. Wright actually has the power to cause America to go to hell, in which case I'd be concerned).

One of my favorite political movies is The American President, and one of my favorite lines therein is the President's reaction to the news that his girlfriend once burned a flag at an anti-apartheid rally.

"So let's see if I've got this straight: the third story on the news tonight was that twenty years ago, somebody who I didn't know, when I wasn't president, attended a peaceful protest at which no laws were broken, in opposition to something that so many people were against, that it doesn't exist anymore. Out of curiousity, what was the fourth story?"

Now the obvious answer, I'm sure, is "but Obama will have the power to cause America to go to hell". True, but wouldn't it be much easier, as President, to just make America stop doing the things that would make somebody want America to go there?

Personally, I think maybe it's time for a President who has a problem with the American Exceptionalism which has allowed us to turn a blind eye to the fact that the "Land of the Free" has the largest empire and the largest prison system on this planet, which are a big part of what Wright was talking about when he said God damn America.

Granted he was making his point in a vulgar and unsophisticated way, but let's face it, America would never tollerate others doing some of the things which we believe are necessary for our own nation to do.

Whether one arrives at a better idea by using religion to step back from national bias, or by making a reasoned study of history and politics, or whatever- I can handle that, as long as the end conclusion- in terms of policy outcomes- is sound.

So who cares about the pastor? Let's judge the merit of the influences to which Obama is subject by the policies that they cause him to champion.

If knowing Wright is going to make Obama necessarily anti-America, shouldn't Clinton's little shooting trips have made her necessarily pro-gun? So much for that, right, no matter how much she might try to BS the people of Pennsylvania about it.

reply to post by The Vagabond




Though you shouldn't have to explain why Obama goes to which church, it was well thought out.

I heard he wears shoes made out of kittens. Even scarier, his favorite food is child stew. That's right, Obama eats America's kids.

Good luck explaining that one MS!

Originally posted by Sublime620
you shouldn't have to explain why Obama goes to which church,

It most certainly DOES have to be explained why he goes to THAT church. And he has failed to do so. It's based upon hate. Hate. Not love of God. Not humility before the almighty. Not helping all of God's children. But HATE. I gave one of MANY quotes from the racist book that the 'church' is based on.

I heard he wears shoes made out of kittens.

:shk: extremely poor deflection attempt.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Their perspective of the religious life and the role of the church is shaped by different realities.

Yes .. for example … (paraphrase) ‘if God doesn’t join us in a war against whites, then we need to kill him’. That definitely IS a different reality.

Oh .. and if anyone is going to say something like ‘black people have had a hard time therefore they are entitled to declare war against white people ala James Cone .... I say BULL. There is no excuse for what is written in James Cones book and there is no excuse for anyone believing or following that bunk.

The role of the "white church" if I may generalize, is to give you spiritual education so that you're not dependent on a priest, ….

Uh … no. That’s the role of the PROTESTANT churches. (and protestants come in all colors) BTW - ½ of all Christians are Catholic. Your entire paragraph reeked of typical protestant anti-catholicism. If you choose to believe that … that’s on you. But that is NOT what ‘the role of white churches’. In fact – there is no such thing as a ‘white church’. The vast majority of white people don’t segregate themselves out. Black people in these so-called 'black churches' are the ones who are self-segregating in this manner.

my interpretation is that Senator Obama has something of a strategic alliance with his church

…. Going to church because it’s what he thinks was best for his political career? Lots of politicians do that. However, they usually have better sense then to join up with a ‘church’ that is based upon race based hate.

don't think he genuinely represents all of the ideologies espoused by the church or its leaders.

You are welcome to believe that. However, he sat in those pews for 20+ years. He KNEW what that church based itself on. He KNEW the kind of muck that was spewed there. He KNEW that it published HAMAS materials (and all that entailed). He knew all this and yet he was still able to stomach sitting there. You may not think he believes what goes on there .. but I certainly do. Otherwise, he would have left long ago …. Vomiting as he left.

I believe that the rammifications of having a president who sincerely agrees with Moss (and by implication, with Wright) have been somewhat exagerrated.

I don’t. It’s the same as saying that KKK David Duke being president wouldn’t have been bad for America and bad for people of color and non-protestants. Non-WASPs would have suffered. The same goes with having Obama or ANYONE who subscribes to the so-called ‘black liberation theology’. Its’ basically a war manifesto against white people and against God.

So who cares about the pastor?

He’s not ‘just a pastor’. Wright is THE pastor of the church that Obama has based much of his life on. He’s the 20 year mentor that Obama picked to whisper in his ear and to guide him in everything. Wrigth is more than just ‘the pastor’. He’s a big part of Obama’s life. And now Otis Moss has stepped in and he follows the same anti-white lifestyle.

Everyone should care who a POTUS has as a mentor and as a guide.
It says a lot about the POTUS. A lot.

Let's judge the merit of the influences to which Obama is subject by the policies that they cause him to champion.

Nice soundbite … BUT …. Obama has championed Wright and that church, and has for a long time. The church, it’s doctrine, and it’s pastor (Obama’s mentor) ARE INFLUENCES on Obama. Very negative influences.

It’s no different then the KKK and it’s leaders being influences on the life and decisions of David Duke. Would you want him to be POTUS? I certainly wouldn’t.

If knowing Wright is going to make Obama necessarily anti-America, shouldn't Clinton's little shooting trips have made her necessarily pro-gun?

Apples and oranges. And I don’t care about Hillary. She isn’t going to be POTUS. If she was the Dem nominee, we could pull her apart. Right now – she’s nothing.



[edit on 4/21/2008 by FlyersFan]

Store Here

EXCELLENT article on the new pastor - Otis Moss III - and his love affair with 'thugs'.

Store Here

Interested in what kind of church bulletins are coming out under 'Rev' Moss? Read the story.

According to the New Black Panthers – Obama is the fulfillment of black liberation theology . Does that put Otis Moss out of work? Is he going to have to go back to theology school and learn something new? (other than victimology and ‘thugology’?)

Otis Moss (and Uncle Wright – Obama’s close spiritual mentor and advisor for 20 years) and so-called ‘black liberation theologists’ just looooooooves Farrakhan. According to him – white people owe blacks the whole country . :shk:

So Obama fulfils all this, eh?
Guess that means blacks think they are getting the whole country and it's owed to them?
These 'leaders' of the black community seem to think so.


[edit on 5/14/2008 by FlyersFan]

Unfreakn' believable video of MR. UNITY and what he really believes - in his own words.

And another one that will blow your hair back.

Interesting video that will educate folks on what Obama's church follows and what his pastor, Otis Moss III preaches. Starts with Malcolm X ...


All I can say is - No hope. No change. and definately NO UNITY.

[edit on 5/29/2008 by FlyersFan]

Obama resigns from his church

Well ... this is either

1 - better late then never .... or
2 - too little too late.


I'm going with too little too late and I doubt his sincerity in resignation.
It's 20 years too late. I see political reasons for this.

Yes ... damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.