Originally posted by jsobecky
My point was that when he said gd America, he wasn't only referring to the gov't.

Originally posted by jsobeckyThey are segregated, philosophically, regardless of skin color.

You (and FF) seem to know a lot about this situation, about this man and his church. I take it you've attended the church, then? Talked to the white members? They told you that they want segregation? You know the pastor personally? You know him well enough to know what he's referring to when he makes a comment?

I'm sorry, these are all just your assumptions and opinions based on ... really nothing that I can tell.

This thread is supposed to be about the NEW pastor, and I don't know anything about him, so I'll stop talking about the OLD pastor. It's good to "see" you both again.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This thread is supposed to be about the NEW pastor,

Yep. Kinda got off topic a bit, eh? I wanted it to be on the NEW fella'.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
When's the right time to bring up... um... the economy... or the war...or the general state of decay in the infrastructure of this country?

America is capable of discussing it all. When I watch the TV I see it all being discussed. Well .. except the decay of infrastructure. The lack of discussion of that ticks me off. But the war and the economy are definately being discussed. CNN, MSMBC, FOX ... its' all there.

Obama claiming not to know what his mentor/advisor of 20+ years was doing IS important to be vetted. It goes to his credibility. It goes to his ability to make good decisions about who to have advising him.

We're vetting one candidate's preacher.

We are vetting all the candidates. Right now Hillary and Obama are giving the press plenty more fodder than McCain. (I'm sure that'll change once the dems pick a nominee)

No we are not 'vetting the preacher' - we are vetting the candidate and his mentor/advisor who he has had for 20+ years. The relationship is being vetted. The fact that this anti-american racist mentors and advises Obama is being vetted. The fact that Obama claims not to have known anything about it and wasn't aware that it was going on for the past 20 years is being vetted. Either Obama is incredibly unaware of what's going on around him OR he lied. THAT is being vetted.

FF, if I prove to you that you are wrong, will you admit your error?

Sure I would. But you just proved it with the transcript. He yelled "god damn america". That's what he said.

although he chose a harsher tone than I would take.

THAT"s an understatement!

many black religious leaders who who believe in 'liberation theology', as it's called, are quite beyond the point of asking nicely for justice from their God (or Allah).

I don't understand (I'm not being a wise-acre .. seriously .. I don't understand) .. are you saying that they don't believe in God anymore so they are taking it upon themselves to 'liberate' themselves?

Liberate from what? Michelle Obama makes $300,000 a year. Obama had a MUCH more affluant upbringing than I did.

'Liberation Theology'??
I see no theology in calling Italians 'garlic noses'.
I see no theology in saying Bill Clinton 'rode us dirty'.
I see no theology in posting the Hamas terrorist manifesto on the church website.
I see no theology in yelling 'God Damn America'.
I see no theology in repeatedly putting down white people and blaming them for all the worlds problems (no self responsibility)
etc etc

It's all poltiical and based upon race. Theology means the study of God or at least something religious .. none of that is there. So I guess I dont' understand how this stuff can be called 'theology'. It's political and based upon race. And it just sounds like a black version of the KKK to me. Sorry - but that's what it looks like.

beyond asking nicely for justice from their God

THAT I understand. A loss of faith because God doesn't bow down to their demands. But that's a subject for another thread ... probably in the BTS religion forum. I should start one - but spring break is over and I go back to work tomorrow.

Why shouldn't they beg, and plead, and make their case in their place of worship?

- beg and plead for what?
- I thought they were 'beyond asking nicely'?
- they aren't begging and pleading .. they are yelling and screaming anti-white, anti-jewish and anti-american isms.

Jews and other persecuted faiths never come under this kind of fire for doing the same exact thing.

Christianity isn't a persecuted faith in America. So that 'church' can't say it's faith is persecuted if it claims to be Christian.

Do other people running for POTUS attend 'church' in which they give awards to idiots like Farrakah? If so .. it will come out in vetting.

Are black people only "allowed" to pray for equality in the privacy of their homes?

I don't see any praying going on. Just a bunch of racist and political yelling. I see a bunch of jumping up and down and whooping and hollering as well. I see no heads bowed .. no adoration of God .. no prayers being raised to Him ...

This was in a public church, not in the privacy of their homes. Either way - in a public church or in their homes .. it doesnt' look like praying. They can do what they want of course .. but they shouldn't get upset when people see it and call it what it is.

The point is - for Obama to deny that he knew any of it was going on ... that's not believable.




[edit on 3/30/2008 by FlyersFan]

HH,

I'm sorry but I have read, studied and listened to his sermon countless times now, and I don't "see" your "government" reference either...

An avid Church goer, I know what you are referencing, but as hard as I have looked and listened, it appears to me that he indeed said very simply "G. D. America" and it was his intention to purvey that message....

Semper

I found the entire quote by James Cone. Here ya' go -

By James Cone
Black Theology and Black Power:

“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.”

THIS is what Otis Moss III bases his Black Liberation Theology on.

This is also what Wright, Obama's pastor and MENTOR of 23 years bases his theology and life on.

This is what Obama signed up for when he joined a Black Liberation Theology Church. (just a fancy word for 'let's hate white people' church)

NO UNITY. No change. No hope.

LMAO @ YOU TWO!

You both kept checking up on the thread for like 2 weeks, just to try and stop the other person having the last word.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
THAT'S what matters. Not what some old dead guy thinks.

I gave a snip from Obama's 'bible'. This is what runs his life. This is what runs the life of his very close long time mentor. This is what runs his wife's life. This is what runs his new pastors life.

This matters.

It goes straight to the heart of what Obama is about.
" If God is not for us and against white people .... "

This is at the heart of how he would run his administration. This is at the heart of the decisions he'd make. This is at the heart of everything because it's IN HIS HEART.

This matters.

Originally posted by budski
LMAO

Glad to bring some entertainment to your Friday night.

Originally posted by budski
You both kept checking up on the thread for like 2 weeks, just to try and stop the other person having the last word.

Hardly. It's in my subscribed threads, so when someone posts in it, it shows up. I like FF's threads, too. That's why I read and post in most of them.

Hey FF, suppose we should tell everyone we're friends and email each other often? Nah, it might burst the bubble that people that have politically opposite opinions have to hate each other! LOL

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Hey FF, suppose we should tell everyone we're friends and email each other often?

Yep. You seriously need to email me. I need to know how your new covered garden is .. and the puppy. Oh wait .. I forgot .. I'm not supposed to like you. Bad BH .. BAD BAD! GRRRRRRR!

(seriously girl .. email me! )

edited to add (just so I can say that this post is on topic).... To say that it doesn't matter what the founder of so-called Black Liberation Theology says is the same thing as saying it doesn't matter what the founder of the KKK said.

It mattered that David Duke was in the KKK and it mattered what the founder said.

It matters that Obama is in a black version of the KKK - it matters very much what the founder said because THAT is what Obama basis his life on.

And it's a very, very ugly base.

[edit on 4/19/2008 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It matters that Obama is in a black version of the KKK - it matters very much what the founder said because THAT is what Obama basis his life on.

I accept that it matters to you. And I really can understand that. I would have been more accurate to say that it doesn't matter to me because I disagree with the premise that Obama "bases his life on" the words of the man who wrote a book that his church mentions in reference.

I think Obama's a pretty reasonable guy. And if he can disagree with some of the things his preacher says (which I believe he does), then he can disagree with something and still be involved with it. I can do that. Our friendship is PROOF of that. If I were judged on some of the things you've said, it's possible some of my friends wouldn't like me much. And I'm sure the same is true vice versa.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
it doesn't matter to me

Okay. That’s fine. I understand that.

I disagree with the premise that Obama "bases his life on" the words of the man who wrote a book that his church mentions in reference.

Do you mean he’s going to that church ‘cafeteria style’?? Cafeteria Christianity is understandable. Many folks cafeteria-ize their religion. They pick and choose what they want to believe. They don’t buy into the entire product, but only this and that….

HOWEVER (you knew there was a ‘however’, didn’t ya!!) That book is more than just something that is ‘mentioned in reference’. It’s what the church is based on. It permeates everything in the place. It has been embraced by the old pastor (Wright) and the new one (Moss). It is the life blood of that ‘church’. There is no escaping it. That’s it’s purpose.

Cafeteria style Christianity is understandable, but in this case and with this subject it isn’t possible. It’s not some little item that can be overlooked. It’s the entire purpose of the church. It’s the core philosophy. It’s the reason the church exists.

There is no way to cafeteria-ize out ‘black liberation theology’ when in fact that’s what the church is all about. He has to agree with it, otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to stomach sitting in the pews for 20 years listening to it. He wouldn’t have been able to stand it. And he wouldn’t have picked as his close mentor (for the past 20 years) a man who earns a living preaching it.

What is this, 11 Obama threads in 20 days?

A new record for mudslinging I think!! Congrats, let's put it in the books.

Anyway, so you complain that he didn't distance himself from he Reverend. Then, when he goes and gets someone new, you rip him a new one again.

The only thing you have to complain about is that they blamed the media, instead of Rev. Wright.

What do you expect? Obama has chastised him for his comments publicly. Do you want an actual crucifixion?

When Bush said OBGYNs need to make love to their patients, did you crucify him? When he used bad intelligence to attack Iraq, did you damn Bush? When he said he didn't know about waterboarding, but then it was proven that his cabinent not only authorized it, but planned it, did you make threads about it on here?

You are all about party allegience. I'm not impressed, and anyone who takes a look at you're posting history shouldn't be either.

Just keep slangin that mud.

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Sublime620]