Mother calls 911 to save suicidal daughter. Cop arrives, shoots daughter dead.

reply to post by apc


WOW...private police...you wanna talk about udder chaos. Sorry but that would never work...plus who determines there reactions and writes the policies they follow in these and other situations?????

Guess people are expecting a vigilante like Batman to come save the day. He would do a better job than cops.

After reading all these POSTS it makes me wonder if any of you read the article that corresponds with this thread.

1. None of us were there. It is easy to condemn someone when we really do not know the circumstances behind the action.

2. If you are an officer responding to an assault with a straight razor or knife and you arrive on scene to hear screaming in the house. How do you think you are going to make entry. YOU DONT KNOW what is on the other side of that door. DO YOU. you could be opening the door to get blasted with a shotgun to the face

3. So if you enter with weapon drawn and you see someone coming rapidly at you OFFERING LIFE THREATENING ACTIVITY with a knife or, piece of glass, or straight razor ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THE TIME TO HOLSTER YOUR WEAPON AND SEARCH FOR pepper spray or a stun gun. OH REALLY!

4. TRY THIS have somebody stand 12 feet from you. Use your hand as a gun, then take your hand and put it in your front pocket take it out and reach into your back pocket and grab your id and point it back at your threat. Do this while the person who is acting as the threat is coming at you with a red marker. Have them slash and stab. By the way I have done it..so dont lie. Wait to you see them coming at you and try it. Then go in the bathroom and see if you think you would of lived through the attack.

5. I am so sick of listening to you all condemn police officers. That person went to the residence placing his or her life at risk to protect the occupants of that house. dealing with someone who was according to the article acting in a suicidal and homicidal manner. This article would have been the exact same if the officer would have used a stun gun and the person would have died. You would all be inflamed about the officer using the device. Ive seen it over and over here.

6. Loss of life is never a pleasent thing. How does the Officer feel. Do you think he raised his gun screaming like rambo at the success of his kill. Or went home bragging how he got one. Wake up!!!!!! He doesnt feel good about a decsion that was forced on him, in a time critical life threatening situation. Now he has to live with the death as well as possible lawsuits from the family. the possible loss of his job. and whatever emotional counciling he might have to receive.

7. For this being an open minded forum. You people do not give much thought to what you were not even there for. Jump on the anti cop band wagon without even thinking what if that were me.

8. If the Officer had saved you from that same person who exited the apartment and was slashing at you with the straight razor would you defend him. Would you say he did his job. Perhaps if you would have had a family member take a few cuts to the throat or face while the officer holstered his weapon to reach for a tazer or spray you would if said "dude what are you doing" But no, when it comes to the officers life, I suspect all of you would have rather the officer died. PEOPLE WAKE UP. PLEASE, USE YOUR BRAINS BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTHS

[edit on 23-3-2008 by birchtree]

[edit on 23-3-2008 by birchtree]

reply to post by rcwj75


Udder chaos? I have an image in my head of an army of cows stampeding through town spraying everyone with milk. MOooOOooOOooooOOOO!!!

Just like any other private agency they write their policies and if their customers agree with their policies they get employment. When they violate the policy and fail their customers, they lose those customers and if they don't get their act together they go out of business.

Free market solutions have always and will always be superior to their State installed tax funded counterparts. The latter becomes bloated, corrupt, and monumental in arrogance. If the former starts down that path, they cease to exist.


[edit on 23-3-2008 by apc]

Originally posted by deltaboy
Guess people are expecting a vigilante like Batman to come save the day. He would do a better job than cops.

More like hoping, Deltaboy

Any special ops teams looking to go rogue?

Originally posted by rcwj75

WOW...private police...you wanna talk about udder chaos. Sorry but that would never work...plus who determines there reactions and writes the policies they follow in these and other situations?????

Yeah because clearly their policies and procdures are in perfect working order

The People determines their "reactions" and their policies, the People they are serving and protecting. Democracy eh? If their policies and procedures don't reflect the People, then who are they really serving and protecting?

[edit on 043131p://23u26 by Lucid Lunacy]

There's a fine line between excessive force, and self preservation and duty. Unfortunately, there is something called "suicide by cop" in which a person essentially forces an armed law enforcement official to kill them. Which was the case with this story? Well, I'm sure that's what's being debated. Personally, I have to wonder why it seems as if officers almost always shoot to kill in these situations. Now, I don't know the legalities of these things, nor the intensity of being in that kind of situation, but to my mind a couple rounds to the leg or foot could have diffused the situation, and spared a life. And pepper spray will pretty much incapacitate anyone. This is a hard topic with arguments to be made on both sides.

I really like what you're saying here APC, I am happy others have a similar vision

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Yeah because clearly their policies and procdures are in perfect working order

The People determines their "reactions" and their policies, the People they are serving and protecting. Democracy eh? If their policies and procedures don't reflect the People, then who are they really serving and protecting?

I'm not saying the policies & procedures these days are perfect but when you have citizens who can't even shoot a pistol good enough to hit a full paper target under NO stress on a range think we as police can shoot out of control people in the foot or leg or some other assinine place other then center mass, common sense & logic are gone! They think under stress and under the fear of death/injury we can pull of miracle shots...and its JUST NOT POSSIBLE! When over 90% of the public can shoot that well, can deal with being shot at, can deal with fighting 1 on 1 with all sorts of suspects, and can deal with the things we see daily THEN I would feel ok with them writing policy and saying I should do this that or the other.

Plus what kind of training or first hand knowledge do normal citizens have to put these policies in place? Also, who will be held liable if a POLICY leads to the death or injury of a person...is the individual officer/company liable or the PEOPLE they work for who wrote them?



[edit on 3/23/2008 by rcwj75]

What ever happend to just wounding somebody? Shoot a person in the thigh and they drop... why the death aim? This Cop's quiltly concious will put him in a straight jacket within a year.... He's toast!

and the above makes my point....because I'm sure you could (under stress) hit someone in the thigh as he comes running at you...dream on

EDIT TO ADD: By the way I have extensive military training in firearms..never qualified under expert, and 6 years LE training in firearms...never qualified under expert...tactical schools and training..always fired expert...guess what ....this shooting the foot, leg, thigh, arm, hand thing is HOLLYWOOD...and TV...and I can ell you already alot of peoples perception is from the TV/Movies...which REALLY makes having normal people run the police and write police policy a really bad idea. Snipers...sure..patrolmen responding and in CQB/High Stress shooting scenerios...again..not happening! Use your logic please

[edit on 3/23/2008 by rcwj75]

reply to post by apc


Dude what are you talking about. Were not talking about whackenhut here. If you feel that strongly go to your city council and cancel the police...it has been done before.

This thread is about the incident not about your libertarian ideas.

Blackwater is privatized for the war effort, is that the type of crisp clean streamlined police force you want. By the way since you are a libetarian which corporations police force do you think you would choose. I think you would just be speeding up the demise of liberty. Maybe you could give haliburton the contract.

Really think about it. Is that what you want or do you plan on being the dictator that brings his own utopian vision to the American Society. I am not sure you are a libetarian. You dont sound like one.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by birchtree]

Originally posted by birchtree
After reading all these POSTS it makes me wonder if any of you read the article that corresponds with this thread.

I hope you read my post birchtree. I took the other side scenario with what the article would read if the officer hesitated. I wasn't there and wouldn't want to be there in that situation. Police officers are human and have families too.

Originally posted by birchtree
reply to post by apc

 

Dude what are you talking about. Were not talking about whackenhut here. If you feel that strongly go to your city council and cancel the police...it has been done before.

This thread is about the incident not about your libetarian ideas.

Not trying to speak for APC here.

Just wanted to say, there are some very strong OT ideas from the 'other side of the fence' being posted in this thread. No addressing those? Why? You're okay with the pro-cop ones?

If we are going to allow OT discussion, then we should all viewpoints, not just the pro-cop ones.

I think you would just be speeding up the demise of liberty. Maybe you could give haliburton the contract.

Not sure how you can contribute to the demise of someones liberty more then killing them, especially when it's not justified??

Really think about it. Is that what you want or do you plan on being the dictator that brings his own utopian vision to the American Society.

I don't think dictatorship is exactly kosher with the principle ideas of libertarianism.

I am not sure you are a libetarian. You dont sound like one.

I want to say something to this Aint my place obviously.

But I will say that the things APC mentioned are definetly inline to alot of libertarian thought.

reply to post by birchtree

I don't even know what a libetarian is.

Blackwater in Iraq answers to the State. If Blackwater answered to the People, if we had the power to say, "I don't like your actions so I'm not going to pay you anymore," how long do you think their antics would continue?

Get three or four private police agencies in place competing for business and instances like this one where cops act in a questionable manner end quickly because the officers have to worry about losing their job, not just getting suspended with pay.

Look at how many companies employ private security firms and bounty hunters already. They get the job done and done quickly, cheaply, and without all the bureaucratic red tape. The State can keep the courts. The police should answer to the People.

The only thing that matters is the story of both sides. If you were a police officer and a woman is coming at you with a knife the question is, do you have time to think about the situation and what weapon lethal or non lethal you can use against her? The mother calling the police was not her best option evidently. No police officer is gonna react the same in that situation. One might have subdued her physically, one might have ran to get seperation etc... I feel for the mother who lost her daughter that way, but I also feel for the police officer and his family.

Originally posted by apc

I don't even know what a libetarian is.

I woulda thought you'd collected that by now!

**edited to add: just noticed that mispelling muhaha

[edit on 113131p://23u54 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by rcwj75
and the above makes my point....because I'm sure you could (under stress) hit someone in the thigh as he comes running at you...dream on

EDIT TO ADD: By the way I have extensive military training in firearms..never qualified under expert, and 6 years LE training in firearms...never qualified under expert...tactical schools and training..always fired expert...guess what ....this shooting the foot, leg, thigh, arm, hand thing is HOLLYWOOD...and TV...and I can ell you already alot of peoples perception is from the TV/Movies...which REALLY makes having normal people run the police and write police policy a really bad idea. Snipers...sure..patrolmen responding and in CQB/High Stress shooting scenerios...again..not happening! Use your logic please

[edit on 3/23/2008 by rcwj75]

Sure sure, like you can't tune on a TV station showing you spectacular police chases, some of them are even better than Hollywood stunts. I mean the way a police driver can use his car to ram another heavier vehicle off the road.
But this is FUN!

Shooting at legs or arms ISN'T!

Thats the mentality I'm so sorry to say.

Originally posted by rcwj75
and the above makes my point....because I'm sure you could (under stress) hit someone in the thigh as he comes running at you...dream on

EDIT TO ADD: By the way I have extensive military training in firearms..never qualified under expert, and 6 years LE training in firearms...never qualified under expert...tactical schools and training..always fired expert...guess what ....this shooting the foot, leg, thigh, arm, hand thing is HOLLYWOOD...and TV...and I can ell you already alot of peoples perception is from the TV/Movies...which REALLY makes having normal people run the police and write police policy a really bad idea. Snipers...sure..patrolmen responding and in CQB/High Stress shooting scenerios...again..not happening! Use your logic please

[edit on 3/23/2008 by rcwj75]

ITS CALLED A TASER. NOT A HEAD SHOT. THIS IS LOGIC IN THIS CASE. THEN STRAIGHT JACKET THE GIRL. PlzKThnx case over. This cop is pathedic

Now this video is a good example. Think about all the police officers out there and what each one of them would have done to this man. I personally would of pulled him out of his vehicle and kicked his @ss for being that way. But that just me. Others would of peppered him, arrested him etc... This police officer must be the most patient officer I have ever seen in my life.