Officer shoots Tustin driver who weilded a rifle, police say

Officer shoots Tustin driver who weilded a rifle, police say

www.ocregister.com

An early-morning pursuit today through four cities ended with an officer shooting a 32-year-old Tustin man who police said had brandished a rifle, Garden Grove Police Lt. Travis Whitman said.

Jose Francisco Rodriguez was shot in the torso during a confrontation in a parking lot at Brookhurst and Katella in Garden Grove, Whitman said.

Rodriguez was taken to UCI Medical Center. He is expected to be charged with felony evasion and weapons violations, according to Whitman.

The pursuit began at about 1:30 a.m. when Irvine police attempted to stop Rodriguez for reckless driving in the area of Edinger Avenue and Jamboree Road, police said.

The California Highway Patrol joined the pursuit when Rodriguez entered the I-5 Freeway heading north and continued through Santa Ana and Anaheim. He exited on Euclid and drove south through a neighborhood near Palmwood and Katella in Garden Grove.

He stopped his vehicle and brandished a rifle during a brief standoff, Whitman said. He then began driving in the neighborhood and was stopped by spike strips, which flattened the vehicle's front tires.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I was able to hear this incident play out from my bedroom window last night. Was pretty damn tense to hear something like that so close I must say. With the amount of shots I heard, I'm surprised the guy is alive. The clean up was still there at 10am with the SWAT & suspect's vehicles still unmoved. I heard all the polices' commands to the guy and it sounded like at one point he was going to surrender, but apparently he thought against it or something. A bad move it would seem...

www.ocregister.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Shakesbeer

I heard all the polices' commands to the guy and it sounded like at one point he was going to surrender, but apparently he thought against it or something.

I hate to sound insensitive to the California police, but I'd be focused on the "or something."

Originally posted by Shakesbeer
I was able to hear this incident play out from my bedroom window last night. Was pretty damn tense to hear something like that so close I must say.

Sir there are MANY police haters on this site, who bash and bash us daily, they sit and pick apart video's and news clips for hours saying how the cops could of done this, should of done that, how THEY would of handled it etc etc.....even though they have no time limit, no stress, no fear of death or injury, and no consequences to worry about......so let me ask you this:

As a citizen NOT involved but close enough to the incident and describing it as "damn tense" could you imagine taking those emotions you had and multiplying them by 50....not to mention walking out of the safety of your home...walking into the line of fire....taking a cops weapon and standing in HIS shoes that night! What decision would you have made hearing how intense our job can be? I know some will say it was unjust, others like JITB will say he would of waited to see what the guy did, but then he would be a statistic as well.

Maybe someone on this board got a small, VERY SMALL, feeling about the emotions and other things we go through EVERYDAY...not just one night where the incident happened to be near our home. Thanks for the post....but thanks more for your take on being so close to what we stand infront of all the time!

reply to post by rcwj75

I know some will say it was unjust, others like JITB will say he would of waited to see what the guy did, but then he would be a statistic as well.

Not necessarily. As you know, I take a questioning stance on events like this these days. But that does not mean my questioing of this event is based on any solid evidence of events at the scene. It is quite possible, even probable, that the shooting was justified.

EDIT to add: And a star for your post anyway.


[edit on 3/22/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


I understand your position to want to question and make sure the actions taken were justified, and for that I don't blame you. I didn't want to come off the wrong way JITB, what I mean is: IF you DO wait in a situation like this where the suspect is armed you will be a statistic. Thats all I meant incase you took it wrong....

reply to post by rcwj75


One thing seems certain, the suspect had a firearm. If it was in his hands, that's pretty much a death sentence. Never pull a weapon you don't intend to use. Even if the guy just sneezed with the rifle in his hands, I couldn't really blame the officers for clearing their weapons.



[edit on 3/22/0808 by jackinthebox]

100% agreement....if you wanna fight us, fine! you wanna run on us, fine! you pull a weapon that can kill us or others...NOT SMART! I will never understand why people do it....but after reading this article this guy may have had suicide by cop on the mind. Sounded like he was getting down and out

The policeman on the bull horn sounded very calm. By all rights and purposes it sounded like any other felony stop until the cop had to keep repeating his comment about "put your hands back by the window where they where..." silenece, then bam. Sounded like a "one-move" kind of fight, if the cops wanted this guy dead I'm sure they would have kept firing. But the entire "shoot out" was over in the snap of the fingers. I would wager most cops don't want to kill anyone based on paperwork alone Then of course I can imagine for a cop with a conscious it isn't the first thing on their "to-do" list either.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Shakesbeer]

reply to post by rcwj75


Yup. I think you might be right on this one.

"My sister in law was there (at the scene) -- she said every department was there, and there was a helicopter. Don't they have bean bags (non-lethal weapons) or something? I know L.A. does."

Zyah! As if!

This guy has a rifle and the cops are supposed to bean him?

Yeah go figure right JITB?

See, I love how the article throws that in there last like it SHOULD of been an option to use bean bags vs real bullets!!! And believe it or not MANY will agree with her and say yeah they could have...its unreal...

All i know is he had little ones at home, so to all those out there that think cops are (whatever expletive some of you use) gung ho kill happy...this officer/officers have to live with taking a father away from children. I just don't understand why people make that kind of choice....

Originally posted by rcwj75
100% agreement....if you wanna fight us, fine! you wanna run on us, fine! you pull a weapon that can kill us or others...NOT SMART

Unfortunately the reason there are some many "cop-haters" on ATS is due to the fact that there have been soooo many instances where cops used uneccessary force on UNARMED civilians that resulted in serious injury and/or death. Of course, you overlook that, as is obvious from the other "cop-hating" threads.

I will never understand why people do it

I don't understand it either. Cops are killing and seriously injurying people left and right that are UNARMED. Taking out a gun is very dumb, I agree there.

I would like to add that from what I can see in the article this was indeed justified. He was going to be charged with home invasion, which is already a violent felony. Add the gun to the equation, and you're gonna get taken down. And you SHOULD get taken down.

yours truly,
one of the cop-haters

**edit to add: www.ratemycop.com. You can say something positive too

[edit on 113131p://22u14 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy Of course, you overlook that, as is obvious from the other "cop-hating" threads.

Show me a thread where I overlooked anything. I don't overlook...if you read my threads then you read MANY times where I even disagreed with some officers actions in various matters. Just because I stand up to people who spew hate and misinformation without facts or knowledge of the law and the situations police get into doesn't mean its being overlooked or that I look the other way.

As for the topic..yes..definitly justified, its nice to know even a cop-hater can use his common sense to see past the bacon..

RCWJ75,

I have absolutely no doubt being a cop is not easy. I have no doubt it doesn't have very intense situations.

However, if you break down under that stress, and tase or shoot someone that's unarmed (as is the latest trend), because of that stress. then you should not be a cop. Perioid. End of story. Get a new job. The cops that do that are clearly not potecting The People, they are a hindrance to our saftey.

I am sorry if you see that as cop-bashing. There is the Academy, and psychological screening for a reason man. The ability to deal with stress in highly stressful situations is a part of the qualifying processes to joing 'The Force' is it not?

**edited to add: I don't literally mean you when I say 'you'. Rather the in reference to the cops in all the threads that has lead you to believe there is many cop-haters on ATS.

[edit on 113131p://22u44 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by rcwj75
its nice to know even a cop-hater can use his common sense to see past the bacon..

As an anarchist, common sense is all I use

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
However, if you break down under that stress, and tase or shoot someone that's unarmed (as is the latest trend), because of that stress. then you should not be a cop. Perioid. End of story. Get a new job. The cops that do that are clearly not potecting The People, they are a hindrance to our saftey.

LL...I agree...thats the thing. You shouldn't be shooting unarmed people and you SHOULD be able to handle the stress of the job. No argument here. I just think to many people carry that to far sometimes. Shooting a guy who is running from you with a women's purse...yeah he should be fired and I understand the outrage. Shooting a guy you ordered 10 times to do something and he doesn't comply then reaches into say a backpack may get shot....is that unreasonable? Problem is PEOPLE don't look at the whole situation leading UP TO the shootings sometimes..they just look at the cop pulling the trigger...and there needs to be more pause and ability to review it all before making a decision.

I have been and will be the first to agree and say some cops DO NOT deserve the badge they wear. They CAN'T handle the pressure/stress and they DO use the badge as a ticket to be an A------! Its unfortunate, but true....

And yes there is the training and the academy..and for the most part it works....but the academy, like any training is just that..TRAINING....its not real..there is no real threat to die or be injured....so for some when that day comes out on the street and the stress level goes up, and the situation is going south real fast...that training has just left the building!

Well I guess a lot of people here would peg me as a cop hater, but in this case I don't see any reason to think the cops did anything wrong or second guess their actions.

Point guns at people and you can expect to get shot at - point guns at police and you can bet on it.

People on here (like me) get bent about cops abusing and overreaching their authority - and government abusing and overreaching it's authority in general.

Cops just doing their job, on the other hand, are another story.

I've dealt with too many scumbags myself not to realize cops perform a necessary & very dangerous job.

reply to post by rcwj75


You know I've commented on many threads where cops have been in the wrong, that doesn't mean I'm a cop hater. You seem like a straight up square cop to me and I don't hate you, though I don't always agree with you.

Most of the cop threads that are posted here are posted because we see something that's not right, so we post and comment. The only reason this was posted because the event happened within shouting distance from and ATS members home.

Your not going to see me defend somebody that brandished a weapon near/at/towards police after a car chase. The guy got what he had coming and I think most of us agree. Had he died it would have been his own dam fault. That's what we pay cops to do and they got it right.

This guy made allot of mistakes. 1. Don't run from the cops unless your prepared to kill or die. 2. Don't ever pick up a weapon unless your going to use it. 3. If your going to pull a weapon on cops expect to get shot unless your good enough to shoot them all first. Duh.

Ain't nobody here standing up for that moron.



[edit on 22-3-2008 by verylowfrequency]

I got the sense that night that this guy was going to pull something judging by the amount of crap that was following him. This is one of those times that the police can have a bit of vindication because it appears the cops did exactly what they should have done. No one got killed, no civilians hurt, and the guy gets to have his trial. It is always nice to see a fair balance of information and the cops do take a lot of crap (atleast the good ones do) in quiet a few cases like this that are reported on.

The fallacy of our justice system as it currently stands weighs heavy on both sides(civilian & law enforcement). We're all human and we all do stupid things sometimes, but I also think we are all tired of putting up with someone else's bs rules and/or emotion/intellectual mal-adjustments, when all most of us want to do is live peacefully... Wrote a song about that actually

I'm not an expert with firearms but I'm not a "newb" either and have had some "crash courses" from miltary/law enforcement people in my time on shooting and tactics. From what I heard, those shots where pretty damn precise, one shot by multiple officers is what it sounded like to me. Maybe someone double tapping but it was quick. When I read that he is being treated and expected to be charged, the one thing I thought was "damn, those cops showed some serious control in not killing that guy".

My dad saw the scene while they where investigating and cleaning up the scene (around 10am) and he said the guy was wedged in between two SWAT vehicles. Those guys in SWAT are experts and can double tap your skull in a split second.....but they didn't in this case. I've seen those guys do some amazing shots with airsoft guns let alone what they can do with the real thing they're trained on.

thanks VLF and I know what you mean..I guess I was wrong for encompassing ALL members from cop threads as haters....

Luckily there are members who can see past the uniform and understand what happened and that it was justified or sometimes NOT justified...but we all know there ARE some on here no matter what is said and done BASH my profession without facts or knowledge of situations....

So I do apologize for putting you all in the same cell for tonight.....I'll go ahead and release those of you who know whats what..