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Germany Warns China Olympics at Risk (Update: France Considering Boycott)

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posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Odium
 


I agree. The PRC, like many other corrupt and greedy governments, must be pressured to change their ways, but the Olympics have nothing to do with that, IMO. Besides, we're in competition with China for resources anyway, what better opportunity for us to take all their gold?




posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by khunmoon
 


Awesome! I knew putting the torch out had some repercussions, symbolic or not. The Chinese may get so pissed off with the Europeans that they'll ban all of you
. You know I gotta hand it to the French. They sure know how to riot and protest. Us Americans have lost our ability to do so.

The torch isn't even coming to New York. I think its only stopping in San Francisco. Boy will there be hippie riots though
. You bet.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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I have some news regarding the Paris torch relay and another call for a boycott:

Protests halt Paris torch relay early


Organizers canceled the final leg of the Olympic run through Paris after chaotic protests Monday, snuffing out the torch and putting it aboard a bus in a humiliating concession to protesters decrying China's human rights record.


The Parisians didn't even let the relay finish. That's amazing! How did they manage that I wonder?

And of course this one was even better:

Paris city hall cancels Olympic torch ceremony


The Paris mayor on Monday cancelled a ceremony to mark the passage of the Beijing Olympic torch as officials draped a Tibetan flag over the city hall's facade.

Mayor Bertrand Delanoe announced the cancellation just after Green party members of the city council hung out the Tibetan flag along with a black banner with the Olympic rings turned into handcuffs.

Hundreds of pro-Tibetan demonstrators disrupted the torch relay through Paris, forcing officials to repeatedly extinguish the flame and take refuge on a bus.


Hahahahaha. The Green party put a Tibetan flag over city hall and the torch ceremony had to be cancelled. What a joke this olympics is becoming.

I love it. I wish they had a picture of the flag put over city hall.

The relay people had to take a bus because they were being harassed so much. This is turning into an absolute circus.

San Francisco readies security blanket for Olympic torch


An unprecedented security blanket will be draped across San Francisco for the US leg of the Olympic flame's global relay here Wednesday amid worldwide condemnation of China's crackdown in Tibet and its human rights record ahead of the summer games in Beijing.

Several hundred police officers are expected to line the streets for the appearance of the torch, which has been trailed by protesters since it was lit in Greece a week ago at the start of a 85,000-mile, 21-country journey.

A San Francisco Police Department spokesman said security for the relay would be noticeably tighter than previous appearances of the torch in the city in 1992 and 1996.

"I can confirm that we are taking additional and different security measures to those that we have used in for past torch runs in San Francisco," Sergeant Neville Gittens told AFP.


There's no way the police are going to stop all the hippie protesters. Don't forget there's a lot of anarchists in that city as well who will not think twice about violence (molotov cocktails, clubs, knives, etc etc).

I'd be more afraid of the protesters than what the police would do personally...


Initially the flame was expected to include stops on the city's iconic Golden Gate Bridge and a trademark cable car before it was reduced to a six-mile (9.6 km) loop along the waterfront.

A proposed stop in Chinatown was also cancelled, with officials citing safety concerns given the congested neighborhood's busy, narrow streets.

Anger over China's actions in Tibet and the jailing on Thursday of dissident Hu Jia have been building in San Francisco, where the city's political leadership passed a symbolic resolution last week to greet the Olympic torch with "alarm and protest."


The city of San Fran had to cancel a chinatown stop because there would have been riots in the streets (not that there isn't already going to be). I'd love to see the "alarm and protest" as a result of the vote.

Let's hope San Fran is the turning point for the Tibetans.

3 protesters climb golden gate bridge


Three protesters are climbing up the suspension cables of the Golden Gate Bridge as part of a protest to the coming Olympic torch relay.

The protesters are wearing helmets and one of them is carrying a suitcase with him. All three of the protesters are tethered together.

One of them has pulled out a Tibetan flag.

The torch is due to arrive Wednesday in San Francisco, its only North American stop.





Let the world know that we do not support the Chinese actions in Tibet or elsewhere.

And possibly the most important news of all:

Hillary Clinton calls for OPENING CEREMONY Olympic boycott

She's only doing this for publicity, not because she actually cares. She'd great friends with the communist chinese government.

What's the point of boycotting the opening ceremony? That does nothing. They're still sending their athletes to compete, Bush will still be at the olympics.

What are they trying to prove? That they're doing something? Yeah right.

We see through your facade.


Clinton is calling on Bush to boycott the Olympics opening ceremony.

Clinton released a statement Monday afternoon calling for the confrontational step, a high-profile move that could also serve to distract from her campaign's internal woes:

The violent clashes in Tibet and the failure of the Chinese government to use its full leverage with Sudan to stop the genocide in Darfur are opportunities for Presidential leadership. These events underscore why I believe the Bush administration has been wrong to downplay human rights in its policy towards China. At this time, and in light of recent events, I believe President Bush should not plan on attending the opening ceremonies in Beijing, absent major changes by the Chinese government.

I encourage the Chinese to take advantage of this moment as an opportunity to live up to universal human aspirations of respect for human rights and unity, ideals that the Olympic games have come to represent.

Americans will stand strong in support of freedom of religious and political expression and human rights. Americans will also stand strong and root for the success of American athletes who have worked hard and earned the right to compete in the Olympic Games of 2008.


Just like a politician to gain off of a human rights tragedy.

You make me sick.


[edit on 4/7/2008 by biggie smalls]



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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Tibet protests force Beijing into IOC talks

Finally...

I had a lecture tonight from a professor who was talking about China.

He made a great point about the Olympics and China in general. They don't like being told what to do. They have immense national pride and any amount of "attacks" will cause them to regress.

He wasn't excusing their human rights or environmental disaster history. He was making the point that boycotting the olympics will not benefit anyone, and will probably hurt those already on the fringe in China/Tibet.

I can't say I like his conclusion, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.

I did agree with his point about the Chinese being sensitive to criticism. Chinese culture does not take lightly orders in general. Apparently parents do not scold their children in the same way a Western would.

Amplify that on a national level and you get a nation that is extremely sensitive to other's statements.

In my opinion, China is behaving like a child, but to each his own.


Beijing officials are to hold urgent talks with senior members of the Olympic movement about the torch relay, as concern grows among International Olympic Committee members over the effect of pro-Tibet protests on the games.


This meeting is only about the torch relay and not about canceling the olympics. Clearly everyone involved is worried about the continued protests, and they must know San Francisco is not going to be any laughing matter for the torch relayers.

I would not be surprised to see bloodshed, although I do not wish it upon anyone.


The proposed discussions follow a second consecutive day of disruption for the torch relay in Europe. Protests by hundreds of pro-Tibetan campaigners and some French politicians against Chinese human rights abuses yesterday forced organisers to cut short the Olympic torch’s 28km trip through Paris.


Protests really do have an affect on world events. Why are there not more protests about the occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do the Iraqis/Afghanis not matter, but the Tibetans/Chinese do?

That's pretty messed up. Maybe the protesters feel the US/UK government will do whatever it wants regardless of what they do, and they would be right.

Its clear governments worldwide are out for their own benefit and not for the benefit of the people they "rule." Nothing new under the sun.


IOC insiders ruled out routes being curtailed or cancelled, but one said talks with Beijing would cover “how the integrity of the torch can be maintained”. One said the backlash against China’s action in Tibet was in danger of casting a “stain on the Olympic movement”.


You're damn right there's a stain on the olympics. In hindsight, letting China host the games probably wasn't the best idea.

Now its pretty much locked in and to revoke China's right to the games would spell disaster for the world community.

However grudgingly, I think we may have to work with the Chinese instead of against them.

Protest all you want, I believe we can help the Chinese progress and not digress.



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 05:53 AM
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What makes me quite angry is the British athletes who think protesters do not have a right to protest


Paula Radcliffe did a fantastic performance on the BBC today, which involved spreading the Communist Party propaganda by suggesting pollution and human rights are "not a problem in China"


The Free Tibet campaign said their issues are not to do with the athletes, so why are the athletes bitchin' about the protests?!?



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 05:53 AM
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Noteworthy to say is that these extremists are quite succesfully in countries where the political leaders seem to have already made a stance against China. Would there be less visible and extreme protests in Paris if the French authorities did not do their job only half-heartedly?

My criticism is on the Western MSM who apparently have made it their job to spread anti-Chinese sentiments.

Olympia- What are the chances that an activist could break the lines and disrupt a speech?
Athens- Well Western reporters had their fun again here.
Beijing - So how much you heard about the Torch relay here?
Almaty - Huh, most likely the editors believe it was a waste to send their reporters to Kazahkstan. The torch relay was spreading friendships and mutual understanding.
Istanbul - Any of you know how to pinpoint Istanbul? Yes the capital of Turkey where the torch relay went by in what it should be, spreading harmony and peace.
St.Petersburg - This was a joyful day and a win for non-Western world people, cultures are brought together, different people see the real spirit of the Olympics in Russia.
London - Hah, the Western MSM at last can show how good they are. Where are the reporting of thousands of pro-China supporters? Where are the reporting of how extreme these activists can go?
Paris - As one would have known, you can never trust the French. But again, did the Western media report that extremists are attacking a amputee kid in wheelchair who was only trying to bring over the spirit of the Olympics?
San Francisco - Hot spot. But don't be surprised to not see the reporting of the over 10,000 Chinese supporters who are going to support the torch relay.
Buenos Aires - "Holiday break for Western reporters! You have done a good job." - *pats by DL himself*
Dar Es Salaam - Western reporters better report something about the supposed toxic in the Chinese goods etc to spread anti-Chinese sentiments.
Muscat - We are sure the Western reporters will be creative enough to report something.
Islamabad - Hey anyone who knows how to pinpoint Islambad on the map? Yes that is in Pakistan.
New Delhi - Ah, the sharpen your pen again, you have some overtime to do.
Bangkok - Hope the spicy cuisine will not burn your lying tongues.
Kuala Lumpur - Oh no, Malaysia, wasn't it one of the countries with a huge ethnic Chinese there?
Jakarta - Hah, maybe the most interesting to report is that the torch relay was again done succesfully and brought harmony and peace to this disaster-victimized country? Neah, that would against these Western reporters' ideology.
Canberra - Yes, activists can come out of their holes again, and Western reporters can prepare for some sleepless nights writing articles.
Nagano - Japan Japan, expect to see some extremists as well, but we have faith in the authorities.
Seoul - The south, our neighbours, our buddies, but also competitors, same as Japan, we do have faith in that you will not only half-heartedly stop extremist using violence to protest.
Pyongyang - Wow, the torch is also visitting this sad poor evil country, bet Western reporters will find a way to report how people are dragged out of the homes etc etc. I am not that creative we will see.
Ho Chi Minh City - Yes another communist country which economy is being reformed with a hugeload of Chinese population. Better skip this.

Then the torch will start in Chinese ground. Bet for a few months the Western reporters will have sadly nothing to tell you.



Put aside your prejudices, and look at that list, was you even aware that the torch already passed three other Nations after Beijing? Are you aware of that the Torch for the first time in World history will be touring around so many different countries with different cultures, norms, values and political ideologies? Never forget what the spirit of Olympics is, which is friendships, harmony and peace.

Activists started abusing the Olympics as a political weapon, Western MSM is jumping board to do what they are good at, Western politicians totally miss the point of this once meaningful Olympic spirits.

As for you guys starting to talk about that China doesn't deserve this or that, let me tell you that China won the vote in a democratic bidding system to host this SPORTING EVENT. en.wikipedia.org...

If Westerners (who voted for someone else) are not honouring your so-called democratic systems by even threathening to boycotts and ABUSE this event as a political weapon, then this is the ultimate proof and evidence that these so-called democratic nations are nothing but hypocrits. This is why so many non-Western nations and people all over the world are having to some extent a certain bad taste when the Western politics topics are being brought up.

China did not promise anything, we do want to use this opportunity to learn from each other and to use this opportunity to open up our mysterious Middle Kingdom to some foreigners to let them see what the real China is. That's it, nothing more. If you are too closed-minded, and can only believe some bias reporting, then simply don't come.

[edit on 8/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

[edit on 8/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


Well you totally missed the point . . .






posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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How to compete with China in sports, in economy, and in every other aspects, is much more important than advocating boycotting, which benifits nobody and won't hurt China at all.

I arrived in Beijing yesterday. Like always, yes, each time I visited China, I got amzed and stunned by the progresses, the huge changes in the right direction. Please don't waste your time thinking of boycotting. Do business with China, get all the benifits from China's development, and take good care of ourselves.

Or, someday in the near future, we suddenly find that we are left well behind by the more advanced China, jealously and resentfully.



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


Nice to see the PLA are still sending paid posters to ATS



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by fuelcell
 


So you also noticed that ATS is not blocked in China at all


I fully agree with you, it is so unfortunate that not more people will look behind the scenes with their own eyes instead of jumping board yelling things like that someone with a different viewpoint is an agent or don't get it *yawn*



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


Yes. I am in China and I can access AST.

From what I learned in many talks, what is happening in European countries, especially the media's reports, regarding the Tibetan riot issues as well as the boycotting proposals, really provoked China's ordinary people. Huge anger has been instigated. This is too bad.

A lady said: we'll remember this for one thousand years. This lady showed me a photo



This is about a "Man" bullying a torch relay player, a handicapped girl in an wheel chair. She claimed that the man even beat and pushed the girl at that time in order to seize the torch. The girl did all she could to protect the torch.

She shouted at me: how can they treat a handicapped girl like that, in such a mean manner? We'll remember this for ONE THOUSAND years.

I had to explain to her that not all Westerners are like that. Most people have good feeling towards Chinese people, or more generally, to human beings.

If you guys still salute to the great "protesters" in Paris after seeing the pic, shame on you.




[edit on 8-4-2008 by fuelcell]



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by fuelcell
 


I'm confused fuelcell. Do you not claim to be a westerner yourself? Also, according to you and Ichi, China has not blocked access to western sites like wiki, western MSM, etc. But there are many reports about such sites being blocked, which means somebody is lying. So much distortion everywhere. Guess that's the objective though....



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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I myself sometimes also got confused. I spend most of my time in CT and CA. During the past nine years I had two years in China, 7 years in Chicago, and a half year in Leipzig, Germany. My company planned on sending me to Japan in the beginning, so I learned Japanese language and even went to Japan for a few months. Then they changed their mind. I was sent to China, instead. I can speak Chinese, although not perfect. In China, people are polite me just because of my nationality, a foreigner. But I wanted to be treated like everyone there. In that case I don't want to be seen as a westerner.

You know, last week I was in Chicago. Today I am in Beijing. I truly hope that people all over the world are a big family. No wars, no overly politics, no religious conflict,,,

As far as I know, no block to AST, no block to MSM, or BBC, or CNN. Because I can read every of them. But right now I could not get into wikipedia. So I guess the Chinese government do block some sites, which I hate.

China is not an isolated island. It is far more advanced than many of us might imagine. And Chinese people are proud of their splendid history and current achievements. As far as I see, ordinary Chinese people generally trust their government although they complain of bribery officials very often.



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


Sorry, I want to make a correction. Right now I can get into wikipedia. But somehow I couldn't, 10 minutes ago.

Here is the webpage:

en.wikipedia.org...

Welcome to wikipedia



[edit on 8-4-2008 by fuelcell]



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by fuelcell
 


I'm confused fuelcell. Do you not claim to be a westerner yourself? Also, according to you and Ichi, China has not blocked access to western sites like wiki, western MSM, etc. But there are many reports about such sites being blocked, which means somebody is lying. So much distortion everywhere. Guess that's the objective though....


Look, I told you the so-called Great Firewall is much less Great than many Western reporters claim. For example in Beijing apparently Wiki is blocked, but I have no difficulty in Shenzhen (without proxy or whatsoever), not that I go to there often anyhow. If I want to do research on a topic I only use it for one of the many sources.

Anyhow, if one day you decide to learn and can read Chinese, you should go on Chinese based (.com.cn) websites and similar forums like these. You will be surprised how open and fierce discussions can become about all kind of topics in China or World affairs. Chinese people see what is going on and what is being reported, and can make up our own minds if it is bias or not, BS or not, censorship or not.

And the overall feeling here is that unjustice and unfairness is committed by Western reporters against the Chinese people, not Chinese leaders or policies like so many activists and politicians claim. We are talking about common people who see reports from the West, but also see reports from the East and even "more neutral" reports.

And by comitting a bias Reporting methodology, actually the Western MSM is fueling hatred among the common people, the Chinese common people needless to say. I mean Chinese people against the West, either the Western MSM intended to do that or not. This is why I would not be surprised that a lady is telling a foreigner that we will not forget it for one thousand years. How come and why? Not because of the Chinese government's censorship or propaganda, because Chinese people tend to have a better memory for the history, and many are feeling that certain histories are repeating itself again.


Ps. To all: Maybe instead of pointing finger at me and acussing me for being a Chinese paid agent, maybe, maybe for one split second you should read what I have posted. Maybe this is only from the viewpoint from a Chinse citizen who try to let you understand what the general overall viewpoints are among common people in China.



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by fuelcell
China is not an isolated island. It is far more advanced than many of us might imagine. And Chinese people are proud of their splendid history and current achievements. As far as I see, ordinary Chinese people generally trust their government although they complain of bribery officials very often.


Chinese people trust the current government policies, because they can see that in general in the big picture it is improving the life of the common ordinary people, who the majority of them only want to enjoy the luxuries which are often the basics and standards in the more developed countries. I would advise you to go on some streets in the less developed places, you will see a street full of people watching TV, simply because a TV is a luxury good in China. To attract customers a restaurant almost always need to install a TV, not a plasma set, just a simple second/third handed 4:3 TV.

Corruption is a huge problem in China, and pessimistic feelings to succesfully fight this virus is huge, you will notice that there is not much faith among the common people regarding this problem. But you will see more and more people, especially in the more developed metropoles that people are starting to refuse playing along the "corruption" culture in many institutions. That's why it put a big smile in me if I read about a corruption conviction of senior officials on the local Chinese papers. Even though I know that many of these convictions and drum-drum reporting of a convicted senior official is often the result of a power fight and to tell the people the central government is against corruption. However, I would still encourage people to see it, to be optimistic that we can reduce corruption to a minimum level. Like what is achieved in Hong Kong, not perfect yet, but corruption minimized.








[edit on 8/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


You say that the chinese population at large are happy that their government sees to their progress and happiness. Is the chinese population unhappy with the rape, murder, imprisonment and genocide of the Tibetan population? After all you and many other chinese claim that Tibet and china are as one and they (Tibetans) are your brothers and sisters. I would think that if you loved Tibetans as much as your government has claimed that you would be right along with all those protesters trying to extinguish that Olympic flame. More propaganda.




posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


You know, Ichi ( at a first sight, I thought you might be a Japanese. No offend), most of my relatives and acquantances have good feeling towards Chinese people. I myself learned a different story about the Daramsalah exiles of Tibetan noble men, who are supposed to encourage the riot, although I still think that China should let Dalai Lama back to Tibet. But you guys need a better job to let the rest of the world know of your viewpoints, the true China. Misunderstanding is generally caused by mis-communication, although I believe that delibrate distortion do exist. However, efficient communication can overcome this mis-understanding and, to a certain degree, distortion.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by fuelcell
reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


You know, Ichi ( at a first sight, I thought you might be a Japanese. No offend), most of my relatives and acquantances have good feeling towards Chinese people. I myself learned a different story about the Daramsalah exiles of Tibetan noble men, who are supposed to encourage the riot, although I still think that China should let Dalai Lama back to Tibet. But you guys need a better job to let the rest of the world know of your viewpoints, the true China. Misunderstanding is generally caused by mis-communication, although I believe that delibrate distortion do exist. However, efficient communication can overcome this mis-understanding and, to a certain degree, distortion.



Not offended, I started going online during my student times, when I also decided to take Japanese languages classes at my (European) university. Most of my Chinese friends objected and my overly traditional parents never "approved". To piss them more off I decided to use a simple 123 Japanese nick
Besides the hot Japanese girls my main reason to take on Japanese was to understand the Japanese people more. A nation with so much history and so much Chinese people can learn from. In my opinion only by knowing someone's else language you can really dig into their thinking, the culture and what they value most.

This comes back to our discussion that there is so much miss-understanding about China. Very often I hear from my foreign friends (white/blacks/muslims) complaining to me how disgusting they think that Chinese are eating dogs. Well, I will only bother to explain to a few that some are even eating Rats.
Not that I ever will come close to that deliciously roasted rat, and actually will most likely kill the one who try to force me eating that, but it's a different culture in some parts of China, so I accept that my cousin "proudly" said she tried a piece of Rat.

Our public relation is definitely far from what it should be. For this I am sometimes quite emotional about, that's why I would spend some of my time trying to explain to strangers on the internet. A tool that makes the world much smaller. That's why it is so sad to see board members of a forum trying to "deny ignorance" will not even try to listen to someone several thousands of kilometres away from him.

For the PR the Central government should consider to recruit some public relation agencies AND subsidy certain overseas Chinese communities. By no way these agencies and communities should spread any political ideologies, but they should at least start to let the (especially Western) World know what China is nowadays. Start with the life of the ordinary common people, try to let the world understand what drives a normal Chinese. Don't limit themselves to one or two provinces, it should cover the whole of China and all 56 nationalities. Let the world understand why 99%+ of the Chinese people AT THIS MOMENT do not care about so-called freedom, they only want to develop, eat, and drink, be secure and have a real life. By covering these stories the best is to get credible real unbiased independent people making these documentaries. And this is only one of the many possible ideas how to let the world understand China more.

However, if Western MSM is so much stronger and affecting the mass in a faster and bigger way, this process of changing certain pereceptions are crueling and slow, but we should not give up. Look at a recent development in the bias reporting again:
CNN just published a new report covering what the aftermath are in China. But guess what, they are only interviewing a few Tibetan monks here and there, I don't see them interviewing another part of the society at all, another side of the story, maybe the victims of the riots of last month. To me, this report shows simply again that CNN is deliberately trying to continue feeding the anti-Chinese sentiments. edition.cnn.com...



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


You say that the chinese population at large are happy that their government sees to their progress and happiness. Is the chinese population unhappy with the rape, murder, imprisonment and genocide of the Tibetan population? After all you and many other chinese claim that Tibet and china are as one and they (Tibetans) are your brothers and sisters. I would think that if you loved Tibetans as much as your government has claimed that you would be right along with all those protesters trying to extinguish that Olympic flame. More propaganda.


I can not recall I ever call Tibetans my brothers or sisters, I am only of opinion they are also a part of the Chinese population. I never claimed I loved them, I am no saint, I could care less if we "liberated" them or not. To me what matters most is that the reforming and opening up from a developing country to a developed country with over 1.3 billion (I don't trust official statistics, so probably even more) Chinese people should not be disrupted in any ways, especially if it is caused by a small minority of people. In such a huge country even a few millions are merely a minority and it requires a different style of governing. For me personally any disruptions of the stability and order, even Han Chinese breaking the laws, we should use any hardline policies to break it. But hey, that is my viewpoints, in America you also have Republicans and Democrats


EDIT: Ps. I do believe we should work on the development of Tibet as well, just like any other provinces of China.


[edit on 9/4/08 by IchiNiSan]



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