Let's not turn this into a China bashing thread, unless that was the intention?

Is the thread topic about China infringing on the privacy of US visitors via surveillance?

Also, lets not turn this into a Communism bashing thread, unless that was the intention

No one can expect any privacy from the Chinese government. Their endemic use of surveillance and wiretapping put the US/UK governments to shame.

I don't know much about this so can you elaborate on these points specifically? In what ways does it put the US and UKs to shame? Technologically or in prevelance?

Also, are these unauthorized measures? Or is this officially mandated via their government?

No the intention was not to bash China.

The topic involves endemic surveillance on Chinese citizens and for the time being, foreign visitors of the Olympics.

As for the "put to shame" comment, I was referring to the Chinese surveillance technology versus the UK and US.

I am not sure if its authorized or not. It seems the government does wiretap its citizens, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mandate for foreigners as well.

However, that is no different than the NSA/CIA illegally (or legally depending on if you believe the patriot act to be legal) wiretapping our citizens without a warrant.

I speak out against any government, my own or not, if they perpetrate acts of violence against innocents.

[edit on 3/22/2008 by biggie smalls]

OK, I give up.

What exactly is the state department playing at here?

I`ve been to China a few times. I`ve stayed in maybe a half-dozen tourist hotels (mid-upper range), at least a dozen business hotels, and a couple of seedy backpacker hotels - and I`ve never even heard of a room without a lock on the door. The rest of that list - fire extinguishers, smoke detectors, fire escapes, sprinkler systems - never noticed one that didn`t have them, except for the backpacker joints, where you get what you pay for... Never had a problem with security, either.

The other thing - many of the large Hotels you see, especially the new ones catering to the Olympic venues, are internationally owned. Is the state department suggesting that the Hyatt corporation has consented to having the government install listening devices in their rooms? Or the Sheraton? Or Accor? These are some very serious allegations, and I would not be surprised to see some kind of legal action coming out of it.

Vox, dear boy, do not be fooled by the simulation of a Western economy by the Chinese government. They monitor everything and you can bet your Redstar Underware they know who you are now going back and fourth like this.

They even rotate Chinese nationals in and out of the Chinese resteraunts around here (in the US). One day, one of the workers was sending at least 10 large boxes back home (and not moving back yet). She asked me to help her and said it was just stuff going to family. You can bet those boxes are opened up by Chinese officials before the family gets it.

They censored out YouTube during this Tibetian situation recently. It doesn't matter if the hotels are internationally owned, they have to go by state-run ChiCom rules. If they want to "inspect" the hotel, no one stops them and they can do what they want.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by jetxnet]

Originally posted by jetxnet
Vox, dear boy, do not be fooled by the simulation of a Western economy by the Chinese government. They monitor everything and you can bet your Redstar Underware they know who you are now going back and fourth like this.

They even rotate Chinese nationals in and out of the Chinese resteraunts around here (in the US). One day, one of the workers was sending at least 10 large boxes back home (and not moving back yet). She asked me to help her and said it was just stuff going to family. You can bet those boxes are opened up by Chinese officials before the family gets it.

They censored out YouTube during this Tibetian situation recently. It doesn't matter if the hotels are internationally owned, they have to go by state-run ChiCom rules. If they want to "inspect" the hotel, no one stops them and they can do what they want.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by jetxnet]

I don`t buy it.

See, if I send boxes back to Canada, they get opened by a government agent before MY family gets them. It`s called Customs. If I go to China, I know for a fact that they know who I am, because I`ve applied for a Visa, and they`ve recorded my passport data then. Of course they know who I am. That`s the same as every other country I`ve ever been to. I`d wager they know less about me than the USA does, solely based on the number of questions I`ve had to answer for Homeland Security vs. Chinese Immigration.


As far as the wire tapping goes - I think that`s paranoia in the extreme, suggesting that all hotel rooms are being monitored. Beyond the logistics of installation, avoiding detection by the international inspectors (ie. hotel chain employees) and the hotel ratings crew without detection, the logistics of the operation itself is mindboggling - hundreds of thousands of rooms nationwide, full of banal conversations about whether or not to have the continental breakfast or sleep late and get a bite at a cafe... hundreds of thousands of ears listening for.... what, exactly? An in-depth discussion of state secrets over mini-bar scotch? It makes absolutely no sense. I`m not buying it until I see the Novotel homepage displaying an apology and an explanation.

I see, but you probably aren't sending back stolen information either. Chinese nationals (especially at Universities) are told to provide information to the ChiCom government with regard to sensitive information in several instances. So when they send something home, it is more than just for the family.

To think China wouldn't be monitoring rooms the US is staying at shows how in the dark you are about what goes on behind the curtain between our countries. We bugged the Chinese President's (their version of Air Force One) Boeing plane when being re-outfitted in Texas. The Chinese thought by havingl their guards watching the US engineers work on the plane, nothing would happen. The ChiComs were very upset upon finding out it was bugged and had several of their Officers (guards that were in Texas) placed under arrest.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
As for the "put to shame" comment, I was referring to the Chinese surveillance technology versus the UK and US.

Right. So do you mean theirs is more technologically advanced though?

I am not sure if its authorized or not. It seems the government does wiretap its citizens, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mandate for foreigners as well.

I would be surprised if it wasn't!

However, that is no different than the NSA/CIA illegally (or legally depending on if you believe the patriot act to be legal) wiretapping our citizens without a warrant.

Exactly. And I am glad to hear you say that. Also, it's certainly not isolated to the patriot act.

I speak out against any government, my own or not, if they perpetrate acts of violence against innocents.

I can't even imagine why any American would want to go to the Beijing Olympics. Any individual or nation that values basic freedom and human rights should boycott these Games, IMO. We didn't go to Moscow. We shouldn't go to Beijing either. Only through strong international pressure will China change its ways.