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Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

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posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 08:35 PM
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First off I am agnostic. So I don't belong to any side. I am here only to call Spade a Spade.

Bigwhammy, you had in another thread "Buddhist Conspiracy For World Perversion" criticized that some of us would defend anyone and everyone, except your religion. Specifically you accused that "PC squad never defends Christians when we get bashed every day". I have thought about what you said. You are right, I for one am guilty and extremely ashamed. I will practice what I had stated in that thread, I will defend anyone deserving, regardless of race, language and religion. I am therefore going to defend Christians. I hope you appreciate what I am doing as you are the one who has convinced me to do so.

I am defending Christian again instigators, hatemongers and perpetrators like you. You are no different than Rileytardell. You are in fact in the same category as Rileytardell and Richard Dawkins.

You Bigwhammy, Richard Dawkins and the likes are blind, incapable of reasoning and/or wilfully refuses to accept reality. You guys pick what you want to see and hear. You guys based your argument on selective evidences. What’s worse, you guys have a tendency of selecting mostly bad things. Because you Bigwhammy, Richard Dawkins and the likes are whom you are, you guys will be biased. You guys will ignore majority independent evidences. You guys will go with the most upsetting evidence you can find that has caused grievance to your religion/cause. You guys will ignore other people's grievances/cause. You guys will twist facts to suit your agenda.

Let me repeat and update what I said in the other thread. A religious group or a group that doesn't believe in God, doesn't guarantee all it's followers to be good. Being good is down to the individual. There will always be bad apples around, just as there will be good Atheist, Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and others. The sooner you realised that, the sooner you will understand how the world really works. By the way, there are also good agnostics around too. I am an agnostic, my kind got bashed by fanatics from all sides all the time, but I am also defended by good people from all sides. They are the protectors and angels of humankind, which Bigwhammy and company are the opposite. Bigwhammy, Richard Dawkins and the likes just want to create a negative world for purposes only known to them. There are more of us who just want to live peacefully without being told what we should believe.

Bigwhammy, your thread has so much misinformation and misrepresentation, it’s disgusting. To critical thinkers, regardless of race, language and religion, always look out for characters with sinister motives. Deny them any opportunity to make this world a worse place to live, it's already bad enough. Never side them. Be faithful to yourself and your own belief. Let others be, leave them to their own beliefs. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Bigwhammy, you are part of the problem.




posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by Gigantopithecus
 


Yeah 15 ATS points and your posts are just attacking me personally... I think you are just an atheist shill account. So you re an irrelevant troll. Be gone.



posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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AHEM

Please stay ON topic and cease the personal sniping and attacks etc. It add nothing to the debate at hand.

Thanks



posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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The contention of the OP is a dangerous and extremist in nature. Atheists had not in the past and present conspired to “air brush history”. Majority Atheists have integrated peacefully and contributed to society. Visit en.wikipedia.org... for a list of past and present Atheists who contibuted to humanity.

The Similarity - The OP is employing the same technique as Richard Dawkins. Just as Richard Dawkins attempted to convince you religion is the root of all evil and therefore religion should be eliminated, the OP is leading you to believe that Atheists is conspiring to air brush history. Both extremist views must be denied. The OP could have easily titled this topic as “Richard Dawkins is attempting to air brush history”, but he didn’t. This is the same technique to convey a subliminal message to implicate Atheists as the bad guys.

About Atheism – We all started out as Atheists. All babies were born without any understanding of religion. Some were taught and some were not. From those who were taught, some chose to believe and some didn’t. And from those who believed, there are hundreds of religion to believe in. Everyday, efforts are being made to convert Atheists. The stream of Atheists is never ending. We don’t have to fear Atheists because we are all Atheists in the beginning. The OP wants you to believe Atheism is evil, should you believe this extreme contention? Are you born evil?

Unjust and Unfair Association – the OP is persuading you to accept the concept of guilt by association. If you realised a theory and 200 years later an evil mass murderer read your book, is it proper for someone to say you were the cause of the mass murders? Charles Darwin studied Anglican theology with the aim of becoming a clergyman. If OP was right, then religion failed humanity. Religion was not persuasive enough to keep Darwin from straying. Charles Darwin is dead, he can’t defend himself, the OP sees nothing wrong to drag a dead man’s name through the mud.

Joseph Stalin is an aAheist. But do you know Joseph Stalin also had religious background? He was studying to be a priest in a seminary. Again the religion Joseph Stalin had studied under failed humanity, millions died at Stalin’s hand because religion was not persuasive enough. If we blame Charles Darwin, shouldn’t we blame religion for not stopping Joseph Stalin?

Floored Logic - Mao Zedong is also dead. He is also attributed to have caused million of Atheists death. Yes, people in China are Atheists? The million who died in Russia were Atheists also. Communism is Atheist remember? As in all human being were born an Atheist? If Atheist is deemed "evil", what do you can those few who killed hundreds of millions of "evil"? Astounding critical thinking.

Here is the real air brushing. These exact words from the OP shows his true colour and his allegiance – “The three monotheistic religions that most people in the world believe in, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, all oppose violence. The root of the terrorism that plagues our world is not in any of the monotheistic religions, but is in atheism, and the “fruits” of atheism: 'Darwinism' and 'materialism.” The OP didn't tell you these religions were and still are at war.

The unity between Atheism, the theory of evolution, and communism are all in the head of the OP. Just like Richard Dawkins’ contention that religion is evil and should be eliminated. Both made sweeping statements without consideration. Both unable to acknowledge the simple truth in life.

We should seek to win by stating objective facts and submitting persuasive argument with evidence and research to backup our claims, and not by resorting to unfouned personal, religous and political statements or making insinuations damaging to the integrity of the opponent.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Gigantopithecus
 


You haven't raised a single issue that wasn't already addressed by myself and others already in the thread. Since you seem intent on trolling me around the board I will address a few of your fallacies. You are born ignorant of God not as an atheist. Atheists are aware the concept of God and reject it. It's hardly the same thing.

Yes the bible says you are born into sin - hence evil. 2.1 Billion Christians believe this - it's hardly radical. The OP specifically addresses the radical neo atheist movement led by Dawkins and Hitchens - that tries to paint religion as the "root of all evil" it doesn't blame "all" atheists for anything.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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The Fallacy of Special Pleading is defined as follows - Special pleading is a form of spurious argumentation where a position in a dispute introduces favorable details or excludes unfavorable details by alleging a need to apply additional considerations without proper criticism of these considerations themselves. Essentially, this involves someone attempting to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exemption.

By the way, the above came from the OP, credits to him. Gigantopithecus made own conclusion about this thread, this is a prime example of the fallacy of Special Pleading.

Nevermind the total lack of evidence from mainstream reputable sources, the intentional and selective use of materials from suspicious sources and the feeble argument to link Dawkins, Darwin, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Communism, Socialism, Atheism, Darwinism, theory of Evolution, Materialism. In essence, this thread is to warn about the extremist and radical views of Richard Dawkins. It should be aptly titled. For example "Richard Dawkins is putting Atheists' contributions to society at risk", "Proof of Richard Dawkins' extremist views". "Richard Dawkins unfairly blame all religions".

The OP consciously and intentionally chose the disjointed title of "Are Atheists Air Brushing History?". This is an invitation to discuss whether atheists are airbrushing history instead of Dawkins radical views. The thread then steered off topic which deteriorated into Atheist bashing. Later the OP subtly injects his religious ideology into what was to be a Dawkins-centric thread. How far off topic can this thread get? There are 80 over pages in this thread, Gigantopithecus can draw own conclusion and Gigantopithecus can't be fooled. Is the OP willing to take up the challenge to be specific? How about changing the misleading thread title to "Radical Neo Atheist movement led by Dawkins and Hitchens"? To help the OP, perhaps ATS members can help suggest more apt titles which are less prone to steer off topic?

The OP is leading you to believe that I Gigantopithecus has been trolling and specifically targets him for personal attacks. This claim is false. I Gigantopithecus am a newbie, Gigantopithecus has only engaged the OP in only 2 threads out of the 80 over threads the OP visited. The OP is a seasoned poster with an impressive 30863 ATS points, he is intelligent and capable of manipulation. The OP knows I am not trolling him. The OP is trying his luck to scare off and get Gigantopithecus banned. If his false contention that I am "trolling" him is to be entertained, Gigantopithecus is still far behind, other ATS members had trolled the OP even more, they had engaged the OP in more than two threads. Under current circumstances, Gigantopithecus is not even encouraged to troll the OP, however, the debate will be taken to the OP, as and when Gigantopithecus decides.

Gigantopithecus need not and does not subscribe to personal attacks. Gigantopithecus will not deny his goals are to seeks and identify false claims, to venture into these territories to bring on the debate, to educate and encourage independence of the mind, to made the world less confusing, to promote understanding, peaceful co-existence and to make the world a better place to live in.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by Gigantopithecus
 





The OP is leading you to believe that I Gigantopithecus has been trolling and specifically targets him for personal attacks. This claim is false. I Gigantopithecus am a newbie, Gigantopithecus has only engaged the OP in only 2 threads out of the 80 over threads the OP visited.


So you know how many threads I visited? And somehow that makes you not a troll?
The point you are a newbee and half your posts are YOU trolling me. Its not how many posts I have its yours and their intention.You already got fined 1000 pts for personal attacks yesterday. You love to use your own name in sentences HUH? Meglaomania? You also bumped up sizzles old thread about atheists and yet you say your not an atheist? Nice try. Busted troll. I am willing to bet your just a banned former member.

My answer to your charges is here Gigantopithecus


You are being ignored now so get a new hobby!


[edit on 6/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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The Atrocities of Atheism


WARNING: Graphic Video


Statistics courtesy of "The Irrational Atheist" by Vox Day.
www.irrationalatheist.com

[edit on 6/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Mod edit: Added warning about graphic nature of video.

[edit on 6/30/08/30 by junglejake]



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
So you know how many threads I visited? And somehow that makes you not a troll?
The point you are a newbee and half your posts are YOU trolling me. Its not how many posts I have its yours and their intention.You already got fined 1000 pts for personal attacks yesterday. You love to use your own name in sentences HUH? Meglaomania? You also bumped up sizzles old thread about atheists and yet you say your not an atheist? Nice try. Busted troll. I am willing to bet your just a banned former member.

My answer to your charges is here Gigantopithecus


You are being ignored now so get a new hobby!


[edit on 6/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]


Yes, everyone, the OP is right. It is so embarrassing, Gigantopithecus has an ego issue. But I am not ashamed to admit I am no angel too, I was guilty of being a wee bit emotional and uncivilized, I went ape because the OP taunted me. In fact, this is the first time one of my replies was deleted by a Moderator yesterday, for bad manners.


I am man enough to admit, I was a little naughty in my response to the OP. I am an agnostic, but the OP accused me to be an Atheist in disguised. So I replied rudely with strong sarcasm. My response was made in part defiance, part spike and part humour, I guess Moderator FredT wasn't laughing and he deleted it.


My strategy was to take the debate to the obvious rude posters who "got away", bearing in mind to be a notch less obnoxious myself. If they can get away with things, I didn't see why Moderators would be on my case. But I was wrong, my reply was deleted and I was slapped with a 1000 point fine.
Lucky thing I am so new I haven't accumulated a record of personal attacks on ATS members and was banned.

But I need to say FredT is a fair Moderator. At one point our debate went down the toilet and into the sewage. I am still smarting from being rudely told off that my comments were irrelevant because I was a newbie with 15 ATS points. One thing is for sure, my adversary and I are ROFL right now, because my ATS points just went into negative!!


Anyway, Moderator FredT removed both our posts because we were acting like children. He did leave my main post and one reply from the OP intact. Very fair.
In other threads this OP frequented, there seems to be a little double standard going on. I see this OP getting away with a lot. His personal attacks on many ATS members were overlooked. And it’s hard not to spot them, they are there for everyone to see.

I do understand it's hard to "police" everyone and I am also not trying to get the OP banned or change the status quo. And if I may humbly say, I love debating too much to lose an opponent and I'm not a baby, I don't need to manipulate the moderator to help do my "battle"!

So how does the OP know I posted in Sizzle's thread? He also checked up on me.
I am trolling if I check up on him, if OP checked up on me, its perfectly fine. Double standard is the cause of injustice, but in the real world we have to accept some are more privileged than others.

And coincidentally Sizzle's thread is similar in nature. It's titled "Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?" Sizzle claimed he wanted to stop both side from bickering and band everyone together. What you independent thinkers reckon? I posted my observation, that the thread title and OP's intention don't match (as in here). So boarderline conspiracy or coincidental off topic titles? You guys decide.

Anyway, I am not going to fall into the OP's taunting. I may not respect the OP, but I certainly respect Moderator FredT. And for God's sake, please don't delete this or slap me with another 1000 points. I am controling my outrage, avoiding confrontation and only stating the obvious fact.


Ok, I am going back to Gigantopithecus mode. Get back to topic!



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 
Gee yet another Biased Christian video, BW, you must have a whole library. SO by following your logic here, we can safely place the blame for the Inquisition,Crusades, and various other murderous rampages that religion has gone on...on Religion. Anywhere that a death or horror has occured in the name of religion is because of the murderous barbaric nature of religion.Doesn't matter if it's a religion you subscribe to, all the religion falls under the same umbrella.

If a Catholic priest molests children it's because religion is evil.

If George Bush goes to war because God told him to, it's because religion is evil.

If a group of Christians cheer for the death of homosexual soldier in Iraq, it's because religion is evil.

If Islam says you have to kill your sister for being seen with another man who is not her brother, it's because religion is evil.

If another religion kills Jesus its because religion is evil.

If a religion says it's ok to have 6 wives and 25 children its because religion is evil.

I'm glad you could see that Big Whammy, it takes a big man to say that your religion is evil.


Edit: IN the interest of being on-topic, I contend that the post I am replying to is an example of a group of people attempting to airbrush history.




[edit on 29-6-2008 by Gigatronix]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 
Gee yet another Biased Christian video, BW, you must have a whole library.

..a video people should know contains pics of DECAPITATED HEADS.

Shock value is one thing he should actually warn people beforehand rather than just imposing gore just to try win an argument. I can't "unwatch" that.


edit. It also contains obvious lies such as "sexually abused girls are 55 times more likely to commit suicide than girls raised by catholics"

huh? I think a sexually abused girl would be more likely to commit suicide than anyone who hasn't been abused.
So is he saying a kid raised by non catholics is more likely to to get abused or just more likely to suicide? Since when were catholic girls immune from sexual molestation? What kind of logic is that? Whoever made up that stat [and I mean that literally] completely ignores history. Catholic boys were not the only ones sexually abused by clergy.

btw. not interested in getting into other ongoing disputes here.. I just think people should be made aware what that vid contains and have a choice NOT to watch it.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by riley
 
Agreed, there was some extremely graphic stuff going on in that video. TBH I'm suprised it didn't violate some kind of T&C provision. But that's what you do, twist some statistics around, insert some shocking imagery, and Voila! you have magically have a point.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Sorry didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities. Seriously what did you expect when it was call "The Atrocities of Atheism" and it clearly has a starvation victim on the still before you hit play.

Just presenting the alternative perspective from the atheist party line. If you disagree with the information in that video it was from a book by Vox Day.
You can download the book the Irrational Atheist by Vox Day free here irrationalatheist.com...



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Sorry didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities. Seriously what did you expect when it was call "The Atrocities of Atheism" and it clearly has a starvation victim on the still before you hit play.

I expect you to assert some discretion and have some taste in what you post. It's one thing to show someone starving.. quite another to show a pile of decapitated heads.


[edit on 30-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by riley
 





posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Charming. despite the 'harmless' beginning.. that vid has piles of dead bodies, people hanging from nooses and a picture of a dead newborn/fetus.

Just because you want to offend me does not mean you have to do it at the expense of everyone else. Grow up and show some respect.

Perhaps you should consider reading some of what Jesus preaches.. his teachings were very pacifistic yet your behaviour is the opposite. I think you might actually benefit from it.

fixed typo

[edit on 29-6-2008 by riley]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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Okies I'm going to burst a bubble here - not all communists are athiests - I know this from very personal experience....I am not an atheist and never was one yet I was for many years a "communist"...as were many other believers during the years I was involved - this is even more true in central and south amercia...I organized among many folks from those regions...now I am no longer affiliated, because in the final analysis I could not reconcile the means to justify the ends - but let me tell you why I and so many other believers were in fact part of the dreaded "C" movement....because our governments failed to do the right thing, failed to alleviate the suffering of the poor, the disenfranchised, failed to oppose dictators whose crimes would reach from here to the moon, failed at every turn to practice the "christian" principles they flapped on about endlessly but never exhibited in practice....we felt there was no where else to turn except to armed struggle....why do you think Bishop Romero was shot down in cold blood??? Because he assissted the rebels, gave them sanctuary and spoke for the poor....

What I have found is that God's people are found in every corner of the world and of every description - there is no template for the sons of God - even those who call themselves athiests may one day find themselves of a different mind, a spiritual mind....Hence " I have sheep you know not of" says Yeshua.....bigwhammy, I truly appreciate your concern for the truth of the gospel, you are a fierce warrior for the truth - but please temper this with the knowledge that while sowing the seed is yours to do, the harvest is not yours to control...
with great Love in Christ
realshanti

[edit on 29-6-2008 by realshanti]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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Tying this all back into the original post, I was finally able to watch the Dawkins vs. Lennox debate today (thanks for mailing it to me, Whammy!). Lennox called out Dawkins for his statements concerning religion and the damage it has done to society. Lennox accused Dawkins for his attempt to 'airbrush history' (his exact wording) by sweeping atheistic atrocities under the rug. It was pretty fascinating when he spoke of all the damage the atheistic regimes did to churches, clergy, and their own countrymen. He also pointed out the 'blind pitiless indiference' statement Dawkins made concerning a naturalist approach and how it devalues human life and makes morals relative. It made me think of this thread and thought I'd share. I'm not sure why I see more whining occurring in this thread instead of a rebuttal or discussion of the arguments.






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