How does one airbrush history? I understand what airbrushing is. Never developed a talent for it myself. But, airbrush history? Not possible. History is history. Someone might try to make you think differently about history, but they certainly can't change it.

And there certainly aren't any Atheist organizations out there with any power to control the media or publishing to create any change in the minds of people. Christian groups, however, generally have PLENTY of money to cover up things. Plenty of money to buy politicians and the media.

Benny Hinn has some nice hair doesn't he? What you should be asking yourself is: What are people like Benny Hinn doing with their money?

I don't know of any Atheists that are suckering money out their followers and living like kings as a result.

People in your life that you work with or whatever....do you go up to them and ask them what their religion is? Is this like a pre-requisite for being your friend? Or do you actually have relationships with people on any level that you do not know what their relgious beliefs are?

I work with a lot of people in a lot of states and probably a good 80% of them I have no idea what they believe and, I DON'T CARE!

[edit on 28-3-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

an3rkist

btw, we were stationed in utah for ten years. hubby was us air force for 23 years. it was massive culture shock but we made some close friends that were jack mormons, and some enemies, inadvertently, because we wouldn't convert and were living off base in their neighborhoods (one of the many wards).

anyway, you may find out one day, that some of what they taught you is absolutely true [and some not, which i presume you already believe], so don't throw the baby out with the bath water. i'm not encouraging you to go back to it, but if you think they were completely wrong, you may find out they had some pretty important info that was indeed correct, at least, historically.

as to the issue of textbooks. we pay taxes for them to put textbooks in our public schools that basically say things like... we came from monkeys. hey, it MAY be true, but that's not what I'm seeing, nor what i've experienced (not that i experienced being created, mind you lol). nor what people i've known over the years, experienced.

my mom in law saw a little boy who was ill suddenly float up into the air and over the pews of the church building to the front of the church where people were praying. he never said a word, he was just very sick (and this wasn't a holy roller church either) .

another guy who was a missionary in africa, encountered a lady who levitated off the floor, and spoke in a voice that was not her own, and began telling them things about their lives that she couldn't have possibly known.

hubby met 2 angels, freaked him right out. he knew they were angels because 1) waves of love were eminating from them and it was so powerful he passed out from it. they had to give him the strength to stand on his feet. 2) one of them removed a black substance from his gut, that he could see with his eyes but he wasn't sure if it was in this dimension or not. the angel examined the black glob, as he called it, and put it back. and for the next 5 months, he said he felt as if he felt totally alone and he was completely miserable. finally, as he was coming home from work, his car broke down and he had to walk it. a car pulled over with a pastor in it who gave him a ride home and prayed for him. the black glob thing, flew up out of his stomach and out of the roof of the car. sounds crazy, i know, but 3 years after he told me about it, an old friend of mine, recounted an almost identical experience at a community center in a totally different city, only the black glob (whatever it is!) flew up out of the roof of the building.

i've had a waking vision. prophetical dreams. i've seen miracles and even had one of my own (i was dead). and although science may think they can explain all this or categorize it as insanity, i think there's a wee bit more to it than that. the explanations are just too pat and convenient.

as far as the military goes: it takes a very heartless person to deliberately administer a dangerous inoculation to thousands of men and women who you know may suffer serious side effects or even die from it, and do it anyway in the interest of science and medicine, without so much as a warning that it's contagious and may be passed across the placenta to unborn children, via intercourse and so on. entire families have died from that. they treated the entire thing like it was just some unfathomable mystery, when it was later discovered that the shots they were given had unkilled mycoplasms in it (same thing that's in HIV and Lymes Disease) that were making people sick that weren't even in the military, just their spouses were.
this was a frequent occurence: a husband would come home and be the carrier of the mycoplasmic infection, pass it to their spouse and within 3 years, both would be dead, even though they were no more than 20-30 years of age. people who make those kinds of choices, are banking on there being no after life.



[edit on 28-3-2008 by undo]

[edit on 28-3-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I just reject the notion that faith is the cvause of the worlds violence. I think i have debunked that notion.

Actually you've fallen quite short of it. Despite my constant repeating of it, you've not responded to my theory that faith in one's own beliefs being superior to others' beliefs is the evil at work. This would explain all genocides, throughout history, led by atheists and theists alike, and would, in fact defend the Christian religion from the accusations regarding the Inquisition and such. I'm interested in your thoughts on my theory...

Dawkins theory: faith is the root of all evil. it is the reason for terrorism.

I concede it does not get off scott free. But Atheistic nations have a higher rate of violence and death. Religion is not the culprit in the worst mass murders in history --- hence Dawkins debunked.

Actually I did respond to it more than once. I disagreed. Some ideas and beliefs are obviously superior to others and sometimes people must take a stand to protect others from opression by tyrants with inferior ideas and beliefs. World War two is a good example. We had faith in our belief Adolf Hitler needed to be stopped at all cost. By your logic we should have just let Hitler have his beliefs. Once more, I strongly disagree.

Remember I said moral relativism doesn't hold water. That's what your philosophy is .

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I just reject the notion that faith is the cause of the worlds violence. I think i have debunked that notion.

Faith isn't the cause of the worlds violence, I agree.

Would you agree with me that interpretation of faith, bent to a particular personal political beliefs is a major factor in a large part of the worlds violence?

Maybe its that distinction that needs to be clearly made, and maybe thats where the route of the problem we're discussing here lies?



[edit on 28/0308/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

I concede it does not get off scott free. But Atheistic nations have a higher rate of violence and death. Religion is not the culprit in the worst mass murders in history --- hence Dawkins debunked.

Perhaps you're not understanding me: faith in your own beliefs being superior to that of others is what causes evil actions. If my theory is correct, then Dawkins is mostly correct, except that he forgot to include the faith of Atheists. I've seen you debunk the theory that only theists have committed genocides, but that falls quite short of debunking the theory that faith is the root of all evil.

Some ideas and beliefs are obviously superior to others and sometimes people must take a stand to protect others from opression by tyrants with inferior ideas and beliefs. World War two is a good example. We had faith in our belief Adolf Hitler needed to be stopped at all cost. By your logic we should have just let Hitler have his beliefs. Once more, I strongly disagree.

Remember I said moral relativism doesn't hold water. That's what your philosophy is .

I'm talking about personal beliefs which affect no other people, such as belief in God or belief in the lack of God. These are things which cannot be superior because they cannot be proven or disproven. I'm talking about faith that your own beliefs are superior to that of others and thus feel you should impose it on others. That would explain every genocide in history, and would vindicate Christianity and Atheism alike, laying the blame on the individuals, where it belongs. If you disagree with this theory, then I think you are admitting that Christianity caused the inquisition, which you and I both know is a fallacy.

[edit on 28/3/08 by an3rkist]

Originally posted by neformore

Would you agree with me that interpretation of faith, bent to a particular personal political beliefs is a major factor in a large part of the worlds violence?

Maybe its that distinction that needs to be clearly made, and maybe thats where the route of the problem we're discussing here lies

Radicals have misinterpreted their faith and justified violence. I absolutely agree! I have been pretty transparent about the fact many bad things have been done by religion.

But there's this misnomer that "more people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else" That is false in light of history. Which is why I drug up all the communist stuff to prove it.






[edit on 28/0308/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by an3rkist

Perhaps you're not understanding me: faith in your own beliefs being superior to that of others is what causes evil actions. If my theory is correct, then Dawkins is mostly correct, except that he forgot to include the faith of Atheists. I've seen you debunk the theory that only theists have committed genocides, but that falls quite short of debunking the theory that faith is the root of all evil.

I am speaking of faith in God. Dawkins was too. He was not discussing faith in communism and stuff like that. He said God. So he is debunked.

Not that I did it, I was inspired by others.

I'm talking about personal beliefs which affect no other people, such as belief in God or belief in the lack of God. These are things which cannot be superior because they cannot be proven or disproven. I'm talking about faith that your own beliefs are superior to that of others and thus feel you should impose it on others. That would explain every genocide in history, and would vindicate Christianity and Atheism alike, laying the blame on the individuals, where it belongs. If you disagree with this theory, then I think you are admitting that Christianity caused the inquisition, which you and I both know is a fallacy.

You should not force your beliefs on others. That's what China does. I am for religious freedom. But you can engage other and try to persuade, that is not evil. There is nothing wrong with having convictions.

You do not have to listen. That's the great thing about America compared to North Korea. We complain about this country, go back in the thread and watch the North Korea video I posted and you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Radicals have misinterpreted their faith and justified violence. I absolutely agree! I have been pretty transparent about the fact many bad things have been done by religion.

The inherent problem with any religion is that people can interpret them to their own ends, be they beneficial or otherwise.

But there's this misnomer that "more people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else" That is false in light of history. Which is why I drug up all the communist stuff to prove it.

Enforced lack of religion is still a religious issue (but hey I'm being picky!)

I've enjoyed our little debate here tonight as well Sadly its late in the UK and I'm off to bed - I hope the conversation carries on being as interesting as it has been to this point

Originally posted by Cuhail
This is patently false. Conspiracies are created by two or more persons. Status or position has nothing to do with creating a conspiracy.

I think you're reading into what I was saying too much (notice I put 'at the top' in parentheses as well). So much for Ashley the bonehead giving 'tolerance' a shot! In other words, when you accuse atheists, Christians, the government, politicians, Muslims, educators, etc., of leading a conspiracy, it does not mean every atheist, Christian, government employee, politician, Muslim, educator, etc., is in on it. Typically, the conspirators are responsible while the general laymen are completely innocent.

But I do agree with your technical definition of a conspiracy. Anyone can conspire. However, the moral is, it does not mean everyone else who shares their ideologies are in on it.

If there is a Christian conspiracy to take over the world, I cannot say, "Not true! I'm a Christian and no one has told me about it!" That would make no sense. I'm just a peon. So is the same with others.

[edit on 3/28/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I am speaking of faith in God. Dawkins was too. He was not discussing faith in communism and stuff like that. He said God. So he is debunked.

I wouldn't be so quick do discount his theory. When faith in God is used as an excuse to bully or kill other people, it is evil. He's correct. The only thing I disagree with is that so-called religious faith is the only evil. I think he's right that faith is the root of all evil, I just don't think faith in God is the only culprit. I think you and I are seeing eye to eye on some aspects, I just think you're trying very hard to "debunk" Dawkins, which in my opinion is a reaction to you being offended by him. (See one of my previous posts.)

You should not force your beliefs on others. That's what China does. I am for religious freedom. But you can engage other and try to persuade, that is not evil. There is nothing wrong with having convictions.

Then why are you so horrified by Dawkins? He's merely stating his own convictions, which are not in any way less provable than your own. You seem to think you've debunked his theory, but I would guess you've convinced no one but yourself. It comes back to paradigms, but I won't go into that again.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
How does one airbrush history? I understand what airbrushing is. Never developed a talent for it myself. But, airbrush history? Not possible. History is history. Someone might try to make you think differently about history, but they certainly can't change it.

I agree and think that is pretty much a given. No matter how loudly Holocaust deniers try to change what happened, it doesn't change the true number of people who were killed and the atrocities committed.

However, as the old saying goes, say something loud enough and long enough and people will eventually believe it. What truly happened will never change but our knowledge and perception of it certainly can and seems to be occurring more and more.

Originally posted by undo
*points up to a post she addressed to you a few posts ago*
see it?

No I don't.

I admire your knowledge in the less orthodox aspects of the Bible and Christianity, undo, and have on several occasions wished to u2u and learn more about what you know. As much as I don't believe the Bible to be the word of God, I do believe it has some things to teach us, and some of the things you've talked about are parallel to what I think it's trying to teach us. However, I have no clue where you're going with this vague post... (Please don't assume I see what you see, or even that I'm smart or observant...)