Originally posted by neformore
If you mean its disrepectful to christians who believe in god, then the opposite could be said of your insistence on there being a deity - surely thats being disrespectful to atheists?

It would only be the same thing if there was a book called The Atheism Delusion. Dawkins' aim is obviously not to refer to God as being delusional but 'people of faith' (his wording- it is not only limited to Christianity but he does tend to focus on the Abrahamic faiths including Islam) as being delusional (his wording) for believing in a supreme being or higher power. Reading his works, it is impossible to miss his intention. Yes, labeling 'people of faith' as being delusional or 'nutcases' (his wording) is disrespectful, bigoted, and a work of propaganda.

[edit on 3/28/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
It is obviously implying that people like myself who believe in God are delusional. I find that highly offensive and bigoted. I am not delusional. I have two college degrees and one is in engineering so I know some science as well. It is extremely offensive for him to imply I am mentally ill!

Personally, and I hope this doesn't offend you, but I think that's exactly where this whole conspiracy theory spawned from. I think you've been very offended by Dawkins' theories and his implied accusations, and that you're lashing out at him by concocting this conspiracy theory. That's my opinion, but I think it's a valid theory based on human nature.

You shouldn't let him get to you. He's just one man stating his opinion.

Originally posted by an3rkist
Personally, and I hope this doesn't offend you, but I think that's exactly where this whole conspiracy theory spawned from. I think you've been very offended by Dawkins' theories and his implied accusations, and that you're lashing out at him by concocting this conspiracy theory. That's my opinion, but I think it's a valid theory based on human nature.

This thread was actually inspired by some statements by Doctor Lennox who brought up the conspiracy of historical revision during one of his lectures. To relegate this entire thread as being a personal ax that Whammy is trying to grind is not remotely fair. Dawkins appears to only be one of many puppet masters.

You shouldn't let him get to you. He's just one man stating his opinion.

So is Fred Phelps. Should we offer him and his propaganda the same excuse?

Ash, is calling people who don't believe 'fools' respectful? Is the bible disrespectful?

Anyway, there is a book called the 'richard dawkins delusion', another called 'atheist's delusion', another called 'the devil's delusion', 'deluded by dawkins', 'dawkins' delusion' etc etc.

As far as I know, most atheists laugh. It's funny. All the God delusion fleas are great. It shows how much of an impact the book had, it really really hit the spot. Another funny thing is that it's not actually a great book, one of Dawkins' worst. But the result has been sweet.

The problem is that you all internalise your belief so much. So any discussion of your belief becomes a personal attack. From an atheist's point of view, belief in god can be readily viewed as a delusion, a false belief, a belief based on no verifiable real-world evidence.

Does it matter? You think unbelievers are fools, coz your book says so. You also think 'evolutionists' are gullible for being open-minded enough to assess evidence on its merits before discarding. I don't care, I show why I think you're wrong.

Some atheists think believers are deluded by the complete lack of evidential basis to their belief. So you show why you think we're wrong.

Don't be so delicate, dear.

[edit on 28-3-2008 by melatonin]

well it is kinda easy to get offended by someone who keeps saying things like "nutcases," when referring to people who still maintain intelligent design is a more logical answer or the only answer or whatever variation on it that is not evolution.

He also mentions that the abrahamic faiths are a big issue that needs to be dealt with, then he singles out christians and muslims, but conveniently refrains from mentioning jews, as if they weren't members of the abrahamic faith, clearly an odd way of looking at the past and abrahamic faiths in general. you know he does that because many jews are famous scientists and because it's very unpopular to ostracize jewish people in such a fashion because his approach is quite similar to hitler's approach about how those religious people over there are the cause of all the suffering.

Originally posted by AshleyD

You shouldn't let him get to you. He's just one man stating his opinion.

So is Fred Phelps. Should we offer him and his propaganda the same excuse?

The man that just spews hate? That's the God Hates Fags guy, right? Or is it Westboro? Either way, his demeanor wouldn't allow him to stay due to the T&C.

That being said, people here need to grow a thicker skin. You know what some of my friends and coworkers say about me because I'm a member of a conspiracy site? Big whoop imo. My interests are my own, like it or not, I'm not losing sleep over it. I have NO idea why you guys take this so damn seriously.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
What you are missing is that he is not saying it to God. I mean come on! It is obviously implying that people like myself who believe in God are delusional. I find that highly offensive and bigoted. I am not delusional. I have two college degrees and one is in engineering so I know some science as well. It is extremely offensive for him to imply I am mentally ill!

If you know you are not delusional, and are comfortable with the way you see the world, then why the problem?

What happened to "love thine enemy" and "turn the other cheek" (forgive me if I paraphrase wrongly, its been years since I read the major religious texts)

Like so many things in life, the power of words in only in the meaning that you choose to give them.

If you have the power of your faith, and follow the advice given to Christians in the Bible, you should forgive, and not let the words bother you, shouldn't you?

I know that sounds a bit like I'm preaching so I'll qualify it with this;

Some people think I'm cranky and a little weird because I tend to follow taoist philosophy. I have no problem with that. What they think on the subject is not going to make one iota of difference to me and how I choose to go through life.

What Dawkins says shouldn't make any difference to yours.

Originally posted by AshleyD
This thread was actually inspired by some statements by Doctor Lennox who brought up the conspiracy of historical revision during one of his lectures. To relegate this entire thread as being a personal ax that Whammy is trying to grind is not remotely fair.

I just call 'em how I see 'em.

Dawkins appears to only be one of many puppet masters.

Whoa there! Are you suggesting that Dawkins is one of several puppets doing the bidding of some Atheist elites? Where are you getting this stuff?

So is Fred Phelps. Should we offer him and his propaganda the same excuse?

Yes. You don't have to listen to it. (Whoever he is.) He has a right to say whatever he wants. That's my belief anyway.

Originally posted by intrepid
The man that just spews hate? That's the God Hates Fags guy, right? Or is it Westboro?

It's the same bigot. Fred Phelps leads the Westboro cult.

Either way, his demeanor wouldn't allow him to stay due to the T&C.

And that's fantastic. I would hope he would get banned the moment he made his first comment. Hopefully, due to NGC's new thread Dawkins would also receive at least a few red-tags if he resorted to calling people of faith nutcases and delusional.

That being said, people here need to grow a thicker skin.

I don't think anyone here has thicker skin (and a thicker skull!) than myself. You're preaching to the choir.

Big whoop imo. My interests are my own, like it or not, I'm not losing sleep over it. I have NO idea why you guys take this so damn seriously.

We don't. Once I log off, ATS doesn't exist. Once I close one of Dawkins' books, he ceases to exist. I guess I could hang out on BTS and discuss favorite colors and the name of our pets but I like it over on ATS better where we can discuss conspiracies.

[edit on 3/28/2008 by AshleyD]

What Dawkins says shouldn't make any difference to yours.

He's trying to foster genocide.

He says we are abusing our children, are nutcases, are dangerous to society, are the cause for all suffering in the world, and so on. He picks out the most outrageous examples, such as a clearly fundie islamic guy who USE to be a jew, christian parents whose children are faith healers/preachers, but notice he doesn't bring the jewish element into it because he knows, he'd be run outta town on a rail as Hitler Revisited. Then he goes around to colleges and enlists devotees to his viewpoint, publishes books and videos on this topic, advancing the same beliefs.

Originally posted by neformore
If you know you are not delusional, and are comfortable with the way you see the world, then why the problem?

I don't know. Probably the whole 'Deny Ignorance' slogan and stuff.

Originally posted by an3rkist
Whoa there! Are you suggesting that Dawkins is one of several puppets doing the bidding of some Atheist elites? Where are you getting this stuff?

No. If that was my intention, I would have simply called him 'a puppet.'

Originally posted by undo
He says we are abusing our children, are nutcases, are dangerous to society, are the cause for all suffering in the world, and so on.

Are you?

Seems like there are some here that want a reason to be pissed off.

Originally posted by undo
He's trying to foster genocide.

I may be an atheist, but I'm obviously less well-read in Dawkins than you guys are. Could you post a single, solitary quote by him that even remotely suggests he's trying to foster genocide? I got the feeling he wants to eradicate faith, but not by killing people, but by using science...somehow. (An interesting goal, in my opinion, but an impossible one anyway, due to the very nature of faith.) Where are you guys getting this genocide stuff from him?

Edit to pre-empt the people from calling me a hypocrite. (Now you know I had given you ammo for it though!)

[edit on 28/3/08 by an3rkist]

Originally posted by neformore

If you know you are not delusional, and are comfortable with the way you see the world, then why the problem?

It is a lie to say that religion is the cause of the worlds evil. I have demonstrated that effectively with the acts of communist governments who take an atheist stance officially. I don't like lies being disseminated in the name of reason.

What happened to "love thine enemy" and "turn the other cheek" (forgive me if I paraphrase wrongly, its been years since I read the major religious texts)

Oh I see, because I am a Christian youthink you can invoke the Bible to say I am not allowed to have an opinion. Well that shows ignorance of the Bible.
Which also says...
"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?"1 Corinthians 6:2

Like so many things in life, the power of words in only in the meaning that you choose to give them.

If you have the power of your faith, and follow the advice given to Christians in the Bible, you should forgive, and not let the words bother you, shouldn't you?

It bothers me because his main idea is to convince people faith causes the worlds violence and weaker members of my faith maybe attacked and disillusioned because of it. On the this very board ATS, I have been repeatedly called an idiot, a sheep, a moron, intolerant, a bigot, more than I care to recall. I have seen Ashley, and Clearskies, Christian Voice, idle_rocker all treated the same way. Usually with no moderator intervention. I welcome NGCs new tougher stance in the CiR forum. Dawkins lie just reinforces this behavior. It is a conspiracy to destroy peoples faith.

I know that sounds a bit like I'm preaching so I'll qualify it with this;

Some people think I'm cranky and a little weird because I tend to follow taoist philosophy. I have no problem with that. What they think on the subject is not going to make one iota of difference to me and how I choose to go through life.

What Dawkins says shouldn't make any difference to yours.

Again this moral relativism. I disagree. Should we just ignore hate speech by the KKK. Shouldn't black people just be confident in their worth?
He is speaking with a big megaphone. It deserves a public challenge. It would be irresponsible to ignore it.

Originally posted by AshleyD
I don't know. Probably the whole 'Deny Ignorance' slogan and stuff.

Defending something by going on the attack against atheists isn't really denying ignorance is it? Its more like an extended promotion of it.

Its not the atheists fault that this guy says things to offend you. Its his fault.

Strikes me that people have fallen into the trap of blaming the whole for one of its parts.

The same can be said the other way round. Hitler was christian, but not all christians are hell bent on conquering Europe and carrying out mass extermination programs.

Bin Laden is muslim, but not all muslims want to fly airliners into buildings.

Dawkins has his viewpoint, but just because he has it doesn't mean that everyone who is atheist sees it the same way.

Peoples words only have the power you assign to them.

Originally posted by an3rkist
I may be an atheist, but I'm obviously less well-read in Dawkins than you guys are. Could you post a single, solitary quote by him that even remotely suggests he's trying to foster genocide? I got the feeling he wants to eradicate faith, but not by killing people, but by using science...somehow.

He never, ever has said such a thing, just another misrepresentation. I have read most of his stuff, watched many interviews, seen many debates. Never heard that not once, not even an inkling. Indeed, if he did, I would be rather peeved like I have been with Hitchens' viewpoints on Islam.

He might educate people to within an inch of their lives though!