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Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

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posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Damien_Hell
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Ok, find all the Christians you know that don't go to church, most of them had sex before marriage. Prove that more Atheists have sex before marriage

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]


What is this fixation with sleeping around? Read your bible, son and stop listening to this yap yap from the atheists. You're too young to have made a decision if you're basing your belief on "sleeping around". Yup, it's a kid, Con.




posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


I love how theists, after talking about subjective material, which we have been for the last couple pages think they win. You can't win when it comes to subjectivity, and you've provided NO evidence to say that Atheism causes problems. you just say it does without any backing. Atheism causes families to collapse, wheres the proof? Atheists have alot of pre-marital sex, wheres the proof?

con, I have an e-penis? Wtf is that?

I've read the bible, so what? The bible tells you to kill people, you don't do you? So clearly people don't follow the bible word for word. And I don't base my belief on its stand point for sex, I base my believe on FACTS and EVIDENCE, something no theist has ever provided

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology
I don't see anything at all wrong with the hybridization of the embryo's in fact, I think we have to start looking into that just to survive. When it comes to Abortion, and why that guy did that,,Mel,, you're asking me to speculate. for me,, I just can't stand seeing it. I mean even before I was involved in religion I was dead set against it...


Never seen the movie '8 below'. I know a few people who do research with animals. The sort that might really get some people's backs up. Interesting and important research. The information it provides about the workings of the brain is second to none.

But I see why people might not like it. However, I can easily see the benefits.


It has nothing to do with my religion I don't think at all. Now having said that,, if I were a minister or someone who had influence like that over believers, I suppose I might take advantage of that for my own poilitcal ends but it would still be politics.


But at the root, the individual is acting on their faith? I can see that each individual is different, that the christian next door to him might see his actions as abhorent, but it still comes down to the murderers faith - his interpretation, his view that his actions are righteous.


Most Christians can't agree on much when it comes to abortion and all that.


True, some see it as a personal choice, and a close catholic friend (well she was at the time, not really now) of mine did have one.



well I think it is safe to say thier is some mis-understandings going on and maybe they should be reformed atheists or something because you and gig are not like what we have seen say someone like ohhh Jimbo? LOL


There always is, con. We should be able to work together. But we are all acting within the social world. Some atheists see people forcing their opinions were they don't really belong (e.g., science classrooms) , and find it unattractive. Some theists see Dawkins being opinionated about people indoctrintating children, and see it unattractive. But one of these people isn't really trying to force his opinion on you, just voicing it. If he was trying to force you to stop it, he wouldn't have my support.

It is meant to raise questions. Are we right to force our own worldviews on kids? Should they be open to a widerange of influences? Theistic, scientific, philosophical etc. Or should they be mini-me's?

I think they should be allowed to develop their own minds. YMMV.



Well THANK YOU MEL!

I think after that, coming from you,,

I can say I just did

-Con


You were meant to ask me if I had a good chocolate festival!

But, anyway, yes, I did. A nice flake egg, followed by a lamb lunch and a nice rioja, family, and a bit of Terry Pratchett on TV. Great!

[edit on 23-3-2008 by melatonin]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Damien_Hell
So how do you teach your kids Christianity without talking about hell?


Not all christians buy into the evil threatening god fire and brimstone version of the faith.

Some see hell as basically a state of mind. If you sin, you live in an uncomfortable psychological state. One I know from another forum, sees all people as being forgiven by the jesus dude. In other words, I'll be sitting in heaven next to jesus, just not as close as others, bit like going to see U2 but being at the back of the stadium sorta thing. Similarly, they don't teach their kids to fear god at all. Mainly love and stuff.

The beliefs vary considerably. Of course, some christians view these people as not really 'true' christians.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by melatonin]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
 


Thats cause Christianity has been diluted, look back a few hundred years, when people followed the whole bible, not just nit-picking what they want to believe

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
 



There always is, con. We should be able to work together. But we are all acting within the social world. Some atheists see people forcing their opinions were they don't really belong (e.g., science classrooms) , and find it unattractive. Some theists see Dawkins being opinionated about people indoctrintating children, and see it unattractive. But one of these people isn't really trying to force his opinion on you, just voicing it. If he was trying to force you to stop it, he wouldn't have my support.


Pardon me for the intrusion. But Mr Mel I think you are a decent guy. PLease realize, I am responding to a lot of attacks from Atheists here at ATS. Accusing religion as being the greatest killer... and Dawkins musing that faith is the root of all evil. All sorts of nonsense about how Jesus was never even a real person. It's an attack. So we are fighting back, with words and ideas - not violence of course.

I think you have a perfect right to believe what you want. I am grateful for science really. I like it. I think it's uncovering Gods handiwork personally.

You deserve respect as human being, but so do people with faith. Dawkins is disrespectful and downright insulting. He is a radical to me. I tried to get your goat a little and you still maintained civility. I apologize if I was insulting. But you have shown that you are decent guy and respect that.

I don't see you as a radical atheist.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Thats cause Christianity has been diluted, look back a few hundred years, when people followed the whole bible, not just nit-picking what they want to believe


I prefer evolved


But some, like whammy maybe (?), would agree it is diluted and not the true version of christianity.

The liberal versions are quite fine in my mind. I obviously, in my idealistic utopian mel-world, would prefer no religious faiths. But I'm also a pragmatic realist.

Paul Tillich is an interesting Xian theologian. Look him up sometime.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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He is a radical to me.


Difference between a radical theist and a radical Atheist. Radical Atheists don't try to kill you



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
 




Not all christians buy into the evil threatening god fire and brimstone version of the faith.



I don't think the Bible even teaches a place of eternal torment at all. It was a manipulation of the early Catholics. The same ones that sold indulgences.

The first thread I ever made at ATS is called Actual Picture of Hell I took on my fellow Christians arguing that in the original languages the Bible does not teach eternal torment in Hell.

There is a judgment and a second death... but not torture for all eternity.

It really doesn't.

Jesus never used he word Hell.

Read my OP for that thread link...



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


The whole purpose of hell or a hell like place has been to control the masses. Donate to the church or go to hell, believe in god or go to hell! etc etc



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
You deserve respect as human being, but so do people with faith. Dawkins is disrespectful and downright insulting. He is a radical to me. I tried to get your goat a little and you still maintained civility. I apologize if I was insulting. But you have shown that you are decent guy and respect that.

I don't see you as a radical atheist.


But I still hold to a lot of what Dawkins thinks. Trust me, I do.

I've brought it up before, and sometimes I think it would be an interesting thread - but I'm not really a big thread-maker, it means I must give time which I can't always give - I don't really respect beliefs. I think it's a scientific thing. I'll explain if you need me to.

However, I will generally respect you as a person, and especially your right to hold whatever belief you like.

I might call people out for acting like a dufus or something, but that doesn't mean I don't have a degree of respect for them. Sometimes a harsh word works wonders. Can certainly get a thread back on topic



Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I don't think the Bible even teaches a place of eternal torment at all. It was a manipulation of the early Catholics. The same ones that sold indulgences.

...

Jesus never used he word Hell.


But some xians do, no?

Just my point really, there is a wide-range of opinions on many aspects of the christian faith.

I really don't get into these discussions, as I'm not really comfortable speaking about things I'm not so knowledgeable about or really care for.


Originally posted by Damien_Hell
Hasn't worked here


Did for a while earlier. But I don't push my luck wid da modz

v
v
v
v
v

[edit on 23-3-2008 by melatonin]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by melatoninSometimes a harsh word works wonders. Can certainly get a thread back on topic

Hasn't worked here



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Damien_Hell
I love how theists, after talking about subjective material, which we have been for the last couple pages think they win.


What do you think this is son? A video game?
No we like Objective but you're not being subjective and Ill provit to you

If I kill your mother, how wouold you feel about that?


Where is the proof!
gretachristina.typepad.com...

Show me any christian sites likek that where sex is so encouraged. I think sex is wonderful but I don't think I need someone elses ideas of it shoved in my face like every Atheist site I see these days



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


What does you killing my mom have anything to do with this. You linked me to a girls blog? So you want me to find a blog, by a Christian that promotes sex? How exactly does ONE girls outlook on sex affect a whole groups outlook on sex?


[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by Damien_Hell
 




I love how theists, after talking about subjective material, which we have been for the last couple pages think they win. You can't win when it comes to subjectivity, and you've provided NO evidence to say that Atheism causes problems. you just say it does without any backing. Atheism causes families to collapse, wheres the proof? Atheists have alot of pre-marital sex, wheres the proof?


The proof is all around you in American society. Increased Divorce rates, increase in violence and murders in our cities and schools, drug abuse, STDs. If we are evolving as a species and religion is the problem, why these issues getting worse as we move further away from God. If Dawkins is right these things should have decreased as more and more people stopped attending church. The exact opposite is true. People are a lot more secular now and our society is far worse in a moral sense.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


its a transitional stage, humans are evolving technologically too fast, and religion is dieing off. The Atheist population is increasing faster then any religions why do you think only now terrorism is such a big threat, Christian radicals are taking to the streets more, your running out of believers and the most radical see it very clearly, so they are reacting. Atheists have a lower jail population and lower divorce rates then theists. I can show you the numbers if you like. And America is also entering a new economic depression, its been going on for a while, its only now taking its toll. According to your logic, only the Atheist should be committing these evil deeds, but with Atheist percentages under 30% (in Canada (last time I checked)) it should be easily controllable, but its not, its happening everywhere to people of every religion. ANYWAY I'm going to bed now, so don't flood the thread with replies to me, cause I won't reply for the next 15 hours (ish)

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 
And it has been suggested that atheism is the root of evil, and how many people have been killed in atheisms name, which sounds like you have a problem with what WE believe.

Actually, I do have a problem with what you believe --- more like what you don't believe. It causes sin and death. However if you stay out of my business I will leave you alone.

You know what. I hate to say it but : Atheism is the root of all evil.

Because my defintion of evil is "without God"
.

God is love
Evil is the absence of Love
Evil is the absence of God.

A world without God is Evil.
QED







[edit on 3/23/2008 by Bigwhammy]
This is your opinion, and you can have it, fine by me.But it is not fact.

Believing that there is no god does not cause death or sin. Believing there is a god does not cause virtue or charity.Your beliefs do not make choices for you, good or bad. you maytake your beliefs into consideration when making choice, they may even be the deciding factor for you. BUt ultimately, you take responsibility for what you do. You are not the sum of your beliefs but the sum of your choices.

Evil is the absence of love. I will agree with that.

Evil is the absenceof god. In your opinion, think that if you like. But that doesn't make me evil,nor does it make my beliefs evil. Just because you think it, doesnt mean it is so.

I hope you realize, that you can no longer be upset if Mr. Dawkins poses the question or even asserts that religion is root of all evil. Because now that you have proclaimed that Atheism is the root of all evil, you are both playing the same dumb game.





[edit on 23-3-2008 by Gigatronix]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin

But at the root, the individual is acting on their faith?


No, I think it would be allowing speculation into the argument which would enter a cross examination on a reverse premise that an Atheist killed someone because of his lack of faith.

That is the argument that can be made but for anyone in science to suggest using the same method they use as the method used in a court of law,, it doesn't work that way. You can keep suggesting faith with as many question marks as you want and unless you go on a case by case basis it is hearsay. I simply can't know unequivocally.

Today however, lesbian Atheist raise kids no worse then Christian families.

I think this faith issue is extremely mis-understood by Dawkins and his having a bad experience with religion as is the same story with Hitchens may have something to do with their attack on it. Regardless, Sam Harris wants an end to faith and yes I have seen Dawkins posts on his blogg that he does too. That is



I can see that each individual is different, that the Christian next door to him might see his actions as abhorent, but it still comes down to the murderers faith - his interpretation, his view that his actions are righteous.


No that again would be his belief that for the sake of not cramping some teenage girls "lifestyle" she wants to kill her baby while it is still legal. The fact that it is inside her makes it so sterile so unseen and so much easier to do. So you can see it in other ways as someone willing to go to jail to save kids from being murdered in a state where that becomes morally ok.
I know the more we treat human life like a lab rat the easier it will get debased and more and more become acceptable.

It is NOT ok in my opinion



It is meant to raise questions. Are we right to force our own worldviews on kids? Should they be open to a widerange of influences? Theistic, scientific, philosophical etc. Or should they be mini-me's?


Jeez Mel,, do they really think Christians are like that?? We love the crap out of our kids. I mean,, I keep seeing the same garbage and it is garbage that we are talking to them frightening them about hell and fire brimstone all that crap. The moment I saw I was saying something that upset em in anyway I would feel awful I mean just awful.

The things most parents teach them is the story of Samson and maybe another night I’d read em jack and the beanstalk but my god what the hell is going on. Look at how the kid is talking like he has some inside info on all the Christian’s moms and dads. I know where he got that crap from.

If he feels that way he ought to call the damn cops or shut the hell up.

Damn I can't believe people think ANYONE can get their kids to listen to them about ANYTHING! Yet Atheists think we are brainwashing them.

Sheesh by age five if I ask my kid if he wants to go to Church with Daddy he starts crying lol and I say ok ok ha ha you don't have to go. But Look at all the times I have to answer to that allegation. It gets old.

I am not saying to the kid Mu hu ha HA HA You're going or you'll BURN!! IN HELL!! HA HA HA HA BURN BURN!! BABY BURN!!!

Now gimme those slippers AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!! AGGH HA HAH HA HA

We don't do like dawkins says Mel

We don't

- Con



[edit on 23-3-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Damien_Hell
reply to post by Conspiriology
 


What does you killing my mom have anything to do with this. You linked me to a girls blog? So you want me to find a blog, by a Christian that promotes sex? How exactly does ONE girls outlook on sex affect a whole groups outlook on sex?


[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]


Easy,, hit every link on that website or Just google "Neo Atheism" and Go to any damn one of em Count em your self.

About your mom? I see you didn't want to go there did ya,, yeah you know where I was going with it kid and you were right.

When it comes to morality where you are the victim of someone elses subjective morality,, well then you just wanna say what does killing my mom have to do with it lol

G/nite kid



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by Damien_Hell
 




ts a transitional stage, humans are evolving technologically too fast, and religion is dieing off. The Atheist population is increasing faster then any religions why do you think only now terrorism is such a big threat,


You're right the fact that religion is dieing off and the atheist population is increasing is exactly the reason for more terrorism. After all we're just mammals so killing is no big deal. Some evolution.



Christian radicals are taking to the streets more, your running out of believers and the most radical see it very clearly, so they are reacting.


Evidence? What Christian radicals? When Christian churches run low on members they have a revival or they close the doors. I think you're just making this crap up.



Atheists have a lower jail population and lower divorce rates then theists. I can show you the numbers if you like.


OK fine! then you will accept that Atheist leaders have a higher rate of mass murder.



And America is also entering a new economic depression, its been going on for a while, its only now taking its toll. According to your logic, only the Atheist should be committing these evil deeds, but with Atheist percentages under 30% (in Canada (last time I checked)) it should be easily controllable, but its not, its happening everywhere to people of every religion.


That's bull. You make some crazy jumps. I didn't say Atheists are doing it. I said as our culture moves farther away from traditional values these things are increasing and they are. Even Christians are more permissive than they used to be. It's the de evolution of our society. We are going in the crapper.



[edit on 3/23/2008 by Bigwhammy]

[edit on 3/23/2008 by Bigwhammy]



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